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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Leaking like a sieve 4life coolant

I am an old fart.
For many years, in fact from the early sixties, I have been restoring cars of all types, rebuilding engines from A Series to twin cams with the odd jag in between. Ive learned to be ultra clean and careful.
As a result of experience with corrosion, sludgeing, overheating and sundry other issues over the years, I decided to investing 4life coolant in my 1275 midget engine.
So far ive had to strip various elements of the engine and cooling system three times because of leaks. Ive tracked these to water pump outlet casting misalignment (a step in the two halves of the cating on the outlet, only about half a mil but sufficient to allow a leak. then there was the block drain tap and the rad drain tap weeping, they had to be clinched really tight to stop it.
The head is currently off the engine, because the latest leak ive had is at the block/ head interface under the thermostat housing, i am now checking for any distortion in the area, though i have to say that this was all checked on assembly.
I had heard that if there were any weak points in the engine cooling system plumbing, this fluid would find it. I am only relating this experience, with the hope of making others aware of the propensity for this coolant to seek out weak points in the circulatory system of an engine.
I will keep at the problem sincerely hoping that the head is not warped. I think i'll also investigate which is the best head gasket to use on the 1275 and whether any of the racers use any form of sealant as insurance.
Bob
R C Skerritt

Bob,
for around the last 25 years I've used 4-Life in many different cars from classic MGs to new and new being built in the factory cars, I've bought many, many gallons of it, but as far as I can remember I've only had weep type leaks (rather than holes in rads and gaskets) with my latest Midget.

You are quite right that it will find any leaks that are there but this is often a good thing as it makes you aware of them before they get too bad, it's saved things on my cars a few times.

I took a couple of attempts to seal the leak on my heater tap mount and/or gasket, it sealed well with Hylomar Hylotyte Red100 so I'd recommend that for "water" coolant use.

I'd previously tried the Hylomar Universal blue on heater tap mount and/or gasket but that left an unnoticed (well for quite a time) very small leak.

There'll be loads of info in the Archives about head gaskets and the different recommendations, some I'm sure from racers and engine builders.
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel.
I stripped the head off this afternoon and didnt have time to check for distortion. I'm away for three days babysitting but will crack on with it when i get back. Meantime i'll be researching head gasket fixes. Im just hoping the heads not warped.
I'm also restoring an Elan nut and bolt, I was considering using 4life in that, but you know their reputation .....Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious!
Bob
R C Skerritt

No sealant!
Correctly prepared and fitted parts do not need sealant IMO.
davidsmith

Bob,
if you need any of the warning sticker so that no one tops up with water - as happened to my once after I didn't realised I'd over tightened the o-ring on the rad filler plug, I've still got 28 left spare as after this the next time I was at MGOC Swavesey I asked for a couple of stickers the chap gave me loads as he said he knew I'd bought "some" before - I could stick some in the post to you.


Nigel Atkins

There are many instances where sealants are used in engine applications, notably Rolls Royce, indeed they were party to the development of sealants for flat face to flat face applications in aero engines.
So, IMHO its horses for courses.
Bob
R C Skerritt

Thanks for the offer Nigel, fortunately, some were included in my purchase and have been locted in prominent positions in the engine bay.
regards Bob
R C Skerritt

>>Correctly prepared and fitted parts do not need sealant IMO.<<

A good point, and I wasn't suggesting any sealant for the head gasket.

But as far as with something like my heater tap leak, with the engine being in situ, the minor leak being in awkward place and position and the need to use the car before correct parts can be sourced such as shims/thin washer of the correct size (if they can be sourced) the correct sealant in the correct quantity does the job.


I found this from a post I put up nearly 7 years ago -

"As I've recommended (and used) 4-LIFE coolant for around 20 years (I think).
I've just found out today that 4-LIFE coolant can not be recommended in old un-rebuilt engines.
As I've recommended it in so many threads I thought I'd best add this proviso.
I'm not too old to learn (just to remember)."

"As for 4-LIFE apparently "in older, un-rebuilt engines, the aggressive nature of the 4-LIFE coolant is that it WILL seek out any 'weak spots' in the cooling system and is thus more likely to find leak points than is the traditional blue glycol or modern OAT coolants""
Nigel Atkins

Bob,
no problem, but wherever you put them and no matter how many you use Sod's Law they won't be noticed when the car is in the hands of others, bit like giving written instructions they're always glossed over or "oh, yeah, I forgot that" what they don't add is despite being told and reminded, twice I've lost a month's MoT because the garage has put the cars in a day or two too early, such is liff. :)
Nigel Atkins

I've used 4-Life coolant in three different classics (BV8, Midget & Elan) to date with no trouble at all. I was very glad of the high boiling point in the V8 when in France during the summer of 2015.
Mike Howlett

I think I took this quote ""in older, un-rebuilt engines, the aggressive nature of the 4-LIFE coolant is that it WILL seek out any 'weak spots' in the cooling system and is thus more likely to find leak points than is the traditional blue glycol or modern OAT coolants" from Deborah Evans, Priestess Race Engines.

I wonder what ever happened to her - and whether she was the person I met in Wales who also lived in Northampton at the time, that had a nice souped up AH Sprite(?).
Nigel Atkins

So, apart from its "long life" feature, what other benefits does it have ?
GuyW

Bob,
only this week I took this photo to show the fan relay but it also shows three of the stickers, one noticeably older than the other two that were replacements.


Nigel Atkins

Guy,
really, you've seen this list before -

Benefits:
• boiling point of 180°C at 15psi
• down to -42°C
• corrosion inhibitor protects against internal corrosion
• preserves rubber hoses
• PH balanced with no acidic impurities or lime scale
• no coolant loss though evaporation
• anti-foam agent to prevents engine hot-spots.
• warns of head gasket failure by changing colour
• (10 years protection) (I can't do strike through with this text).

And I add -
• highlights leaks, origin of leak and type of leak.
Nigel Atkins

Bob I was simply answering your line of enquiry:
"i'll also investigate which is the best head gasket to use on the 1275 and whether any of the racers use any form of sealant as insurance"
davidsmith

and one reason not to use it - taken from Peter Burgesses website.

"Waterless Coolant .

In our opinion using coolants other than water with antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor addition as recommended in the original workshop manual can allow the engine to run too hot and cause problems such as sticking valves and piston damage.

We offer no warranty on our engines and heads if waterless coolants are used. Water is the best liquid for transferring heat. "
Chris at Octarine Services

Plus, it ent natral.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

"Plus, it ent natral." LOL Nick.
Jeremy T2

My main aversion to it is that l invariably end up partially draining the system at the least twice a year so the 4-life attribute is a bit superfluous. And -42 C ? No, not ever never round here!
GuyW

Chris,
Peter was referring Evans Waterless, I'm not sure that 4-Life is waterless I'd guess it has water but I don't know the chemical composition. I suppose a product safety sheet would give a clue to this.
Nigel Atkins

Guy,
you could siphon out the 4-Life and reuse it.

If your partial drain twice a year is to change the stat then I remember you saying how you only lose a very little coolant from it. If it's not I am genuinely curious to know the purpose of the partial drain down.

-42 means a good safety margin, say, just as a figure plucked out of the air, a coolant goes down to -20 would it still be fully functioning at -18, -19, -20, -21, etc., same with oil some makes and models of the same grade will work better at a given very low temperature.

As with all things some people value them where others don't, or some believe where others don't, you pays your money you takes your choice.
Nigel Atkins

Not criticizing the stuff Nigel. Just saying that for my use, l prefer water and glycol.
GuyW

Is 4-Life waterless? I assumed it was a water based material. It seems you can't find any information on the formulation or even who manufactures it. At least I can't!
Mike Howlett

the simple process of googling the phone number on the label in Nigel's pic points directly to Castrol Classic Oils in Swavesey, Cambridge.
That could be why someone thought it was made by or for MGOC as they are also based in Swavesey. To muddy the waters slightly, Castrol's UK HQ and Technology Centre is in Pangbourne, Berks. I also find it odd that although I've tried a couple of different spellings I can't find any reference to the product on Castrol's UK website.

Anybody else fancy some sleuthing?
davidsmith

Have to agree with Chris/Peter B. The best fluid for heat transfer is water - added to which, would be the minimum amount of glycol required to satisfy freezing/corrosion inhibition requirements. Incidentally, the more glycol added, the less effective the fluid is at transferring heat - something to bear in mind perhaps if this 4 Life stuff contains 100% DEG/MEG or similar.
Mark Ogden

Hi Guy,
it was no problem even if you had been criticizing, as I was trying to say, each to their own. I've put my faith/knowledge/research into products and people and got it wrong many, many times before so I could be wasting my time again (though I don't think so otherwise even I would have given up by now) and what works for one might not work for another.

I'm still curious about your biannual partial drain downs unless you meant the stat swaps.

Water and gycol are fine just that they need changing every two or so years to keep the corrosion and lubricant elements fully functioning and as we know not everybody bothers with these regular changes, even if they take the car to a garage many will just test if the antifreeze element is still working.

I think the 4-Life helped me only last October when I had a pin hole leak in my rad during Sod's Law a motorway run up to and over the N. Yorks. Dales high roads. By the time I had to stop without realising it I'd half emptied the rad. Good job my Peter James insurance includes UK & European breakdown cover so a very nice man from the AA sorted things.

Whilst the car ran warmer than usual the gauge only showed a bit more passed the 'N' than usual with the fan running, it was warm weather for the area and time with the sun shining so top was down making things not as bad as they could seem.

I might have made it to the large major town I intended to stop at had I not got stuck behind a wide Range Rover Sport doing about 20mph along the narrow roads before the main road I was heading for, this of course didn't help with the car's cooling as I didn't have the room or sight lines to overtake. I eventually got passed this to get behind a tractor and trailer, I eventually got passed this too but being of that age had to later stop for a pee and sure enough just before I could get back on the road the tractor got in front again, luckily it soon turn off. We got to the main road and Sod's Law again it was at least a couple of miles steep uphill and towards the top I decided to give up before we got to the bend and possibly slower traffic - but it was sunny and it was only a lump of metal getting warmer so nothing really to worry about.
Nigel Atkins

No need for sleuthing as regards who makes it as it was probably me that thought it was made for MGOC and it was. Now they have it made up for themselves as IIIRC the previous lot didn't want to renew the contract. I've not seen but I'm told it's in a big container and decanted off at Swavesey.

I learnt all this when I wanted some 4-Life and they'd run out as they were setting up the stuff themselves and I think they were waiting for the labels or design of labels.

Did I mention I've bought a lot of the stuff over the years so have pick up a bit of info.

But not what it's made off, but whatever 100% DEG/MEG is I doubt 4-Life is because it's very watery it looks very similar to other premixed antifreeze.

If it caused any problems I'm sure I'd know by now as I've had it in quite a few cars with it and I'd guess mileage well towards a couple hundred thousands that I've driven with it.

As for Castrol, I don't know but MGOC might be a distributor(?), if you've ever meet Roche Bentley you'd understand how the MGOC built up and spread out, other family members still work there I think.
Nigel Atkins

I have taken the simple step of photographing the labels. Here's the front which clearly states it is water based.



Mike Howlett

And here's the back which shows that it contains Ethanediol, which according to the Collins dictionary is also called glycol or ethylene glycol. So it is water based and contains conventional antifreeze. I guess the concentration of glycol must be quite high.

The label says it is distributed by Promapac of Cambridge. Look them up and they are based at the MGOC HQ in Swavesey. Curiouser and curiouser.


Mike Howlett

ETA: you posted whilst I was typing, see my previous post about MGOC/4-Life

Mike,
you got me going there I thought I'd never noticed that on the labels - and I hadn't, they must have added it because so many people confuse it with (Evans) waterless.

Does yours still say it's "Distributed in the EU and UK by PROMAPAC, CAMBRIDGE CB24 4QZ ENGLAND"?

I'll put up a photo of the label I've got just to confuse things, I mean confirm I'm not a total idiot.

Of course you have somewhat spoiled the debate. :)
Nigel Atkins

A higher boiling point gives you a greater safety margin before the system ejects coolant but doesn't change the temperature the engine is running out. Put another way a higher boiling point allows the engine to get hotter without warning you it's got too hot by ejecting coolant.
st

On my V8, which uses 4-Life coolant, I was stuck in traffic in France in 36C temperatures. The fans were working overtime but still the temp gauge climbed way past the 230F mark to about the position indicated by the yellow line in my picture. It didn't boil, and it didn't eject any coolant. And having fuel injection it idled properly all the time. By gum, it was hot inside the car (its a GT). Missus and I were melting, but I was glad of the high boiling point coolant.



Mike Howlett

True, but the temperature gauge shows the temperature (at the sender point) and my engine also possibly still cooled better because the coolant was in good condition lubricating and keeping corrosion down and wasn't getting hot spots in the engine - and of course the thorough cleaning of the heating/cooling system and all other components in good working order obviously helped no end. ;)

Plus of course having good cooling from good quality oil and a clean oil system (without the need of an oil cooler) that helps.

And of course being an expert driver and mechanical ...

would have helped even more but that's not me

I've had a few HGFs, and in MGs, so I know whether 'ordinary' coolant or 4-Life once the temperature gets to a certain point it goes up so quick you've probably passed the point of no return.
Nigel Atkins

Mike,
good job your oil pressure needle didn't get up to 85.




I'm joking I've had a few RV8 engine cars including a B (rubber bumper roadster, so totally upsetting purists) so I know if the oil gauge got that high it'd probably mean it's faulty.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,
The twice a year is as you guessed, to change the thermostat, summer and winter versions. The "at least" before that was a reference to the fact that I invariably seem to end up draining more often than just twice, for some reason or other.

I am not sure I follow what you mean about the coolant not "fully functioning" at a few degrees above its freezing point. It doesn't need to function as a coolant at those temperatures, the only necessity being that it doesn't freeze, expand and crack the block. Unless this Global Warming produces the greater extremes of weather as predicted and sooner than anticipated, I am reasonably confident that I really do not need freeze protection down to -42C.

Some of the other attributes may be useful, but I still think I will stick with water and Glycol. I believe it is what is recommended in the Handbook. ;-)
GuyW

I'm not sure if it's helpful at this end of the discussion but my experience in the past it that with Polyethylene glycol based antifreeze, the common stuff IIRC, if it was added neat to the cooling system it would find any leak available whereas a normal PEG/water mix, such as 50:50, added to the same system would be fine with no leaks evident. Something about the neat stuff just seemed to want a way out and it would find it.
David Billington

I think Peter's point is that these coolants allow the engine to run at much higher temperatures and this can lead to issues like valves sticking in the guides.

High concentrations of glycol reduce the flow of coolant as well as reducing the specific heat of the coolant and thus reduce the carrying of heat away from hot spots to the rad.

What isn't clear from the labelling is that 4life requires a 15 psi rad cap to achieve the 180 degree boiling point (see Howdwens website).

Plain water has a boiling point of 121 degrees under 15 psi.

Unpressurised 25% glycol/water boils at 103.5 degrees - pressurised to 15 psi that would rise to around 125 degrees.

Mike,

My V8 using 25% bluecol / water sat in a slow moving traffic jam in Italy last year for over an hour with temps in the high thirties and the needle never went much above the N mark and the fans ran for 5 mins on and 2 mins off.


Chris at Octarine Services

That to me is amazing Chris. My fans are needed even when the air temp is only 10 or 12C if I get stopped in traffic for more than a handful of minutes. Once the fans are on, they generally don't go off until the car gets moving above 25 mph even in cool weather. I'm reluctant to drain the 4-Life - it's not cheap! And I'm also lazy about maintenance, so changing the coolant every couple of years would be a chore, especially as the V8 is tricky to refill without air locks. But it would be interesting to see if conventional 25/75 AF/water would reduce the temp reading.
Mike Howlett

Guy,
I was thinking of how well the additives function when very cold and what the various coolants are like near to their freezing point, point and extent of formation of the freezing process of the coolant as a liquid to forming solid, same sort of thing for the oil - but I haven't a clue, I know less about chemistry than I do mechanics!

Anyway you've nailed it with as the Handbook recommends, as the yoof sez it's "end of". :)

Course someone might say that basically that's what 4-Life is. :)
Nigel Atkins

David,
I know that neat antifreeze will eat into a tyre sidewall exposing the metal mesh if someone (not me for once) carelessly lets act as a bath for the spare wheel well.

Chris,
my benefit points list for Guy was originally copied from Holden's site, I left the "at 15psi" in as at the time it was relevant to the (later) Spridgets but on the label Mike posted it has -
"Boiling point to maximum +180C"
and on the label I have it says -
"Boiling point of 180 C for extra safety margin".

Thinking about it I can only remember (I might have forgotten though) ever seeing anything about PSI on Holden's site, I won't use that bit again, I only copied off the site because I didn't have a label at the time - you know what it's like taking info from a web site. :)
Nigel Atkins

Sorry my photos are a bit out of focus.

With my bottle there are quite a few differences in the wording of the front label in particular, notably the the water based bit missing above the big red 4 but plenty of others differences too.



Nigel Atkins

And quite a few difference on the rear label of my can (put bottle last post) compared to Mark's.



Nigel Atkins

Interesting how the bottle clearly states that 4-Life promotes "Cooler Running". Why is there no documentation for this product? Surely there should at least be a safety data sheet available.
Mike Howlett

Cooler running surely not possible. Heat passes from explosions and friction, to oil and water, to air. Where in the sequence is cooler running achieved by this potion?
Anyway, cool running isn't good for these engines.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Mike,
I've just had a look for safety sheet for Comma antifreeze and couldn't workout their search system but when I went to Halfords antifreeze they have a link to a safety sheet and guess what, it's a Comma safety sheet for the product. I'm not sure it tells you a lot so it'd probably be the same for the 4-Life. These things tend to be commercially sensitive so don't give much away.

If you really want to know then ask the supplier but if I was them addressing a retail user I'd probably say that customer safety information is on the labels, if you insisted I'd send you a safety data sheet but I'd guess it'd be the same as the Halfords Comma one so why not have a look at that first and decide if it's worth the effort.

Halfords Silicate Ready Mixed Antifreeze 5L, £17.99, up to 2 years protection.

For £4 more you can get 10 years protection.

Safety sheet for the Halfords - http://www.my-sds.co.uk/Admin/ViewDocument.aspx?ID=47e7bbf3-5f4f-4a22-8a48-905acbb0ae91&primaryReportId=0


Nigel Atkins

Nick,
surely the engine can run "cooler" when the coolant and oil systems are fully topped and fully functioning rather than when the levels are well below minimum or components not fully functioning. Isn't it all about transferring the heat.

According to the three temperature gauges I've had in my two Spridgets the engine is very happy to run indicating well before the 'N' (82c / 180f) and it didn't seem to run any better when I had a 88c water stat and had the electric cooling fan coming in at a higher temperate so the gauge showed about 'N' and above.

There wasn't a rise in power when on the rollers from the higher water and electric fan setting but I didn't do a side by comparison or eliminate any other variances to confirm this.

These are just my observations I don't have enough knowledge to understand or explain these things, quite apart from not being articulate enough, I'd have to leave the technical bits to others.

Nigel Atkins

I bought my 4-Life from Demon Tweeks so I have emailed them to ask for any documentation they have. I'll let you know what they say.
Mike Howlett

Nigel

For a like for like cooling system, water is the best coolant - due to its high specific heat capacity or its heat storage capacity per unit mass if you will. Of course, you could use other fluids, but to obtain similar heat transfer, you would require a greater flow rate through the radiator - which means a larger pump and possibly larger pipes and radiator.

Addition of glycol to water reduces the freezing point - an obvious advantage in winter - but reduces the specific heat capacity. That is why one should only add the minimum amount of EG required.
Mark Ogden

Not sure if its relevant in its entirety to the original posting, but I had the head on my 1275 go through the vacuum resin process. there was a crack which got sorted by this process which apparently is used a lot by the motorsport guys to get round hairline cracks in castings.
It might be something to consider OP should you get to the point of having both the block and the head on the bench. . . .
www.impregnation.co.uk/process/

P Bentley

Ref Chris Betson's cool running V8 - it must be the way he builds his engines because the MGA engines he has built for me and friends all run a lot cooler than others.
Dominic Clancy

Hi Mark,
where's all this crud and corrosion come from that I and others find in the engine, rad, cooling system in cars run on standard antifreeze?.

I'm not doubting that the standard antifreeze works.

But it sounds like you're saying we'd all be best to run on water only until we need to add antifreeze then when we no longer need the antifreeze we'd be best to drain the mixture out and completely refill with water again. Is this what you do, I think, but I might be wrong, that Guy might do that.

Other than it freezing are there any drawbacks to just running on water?

It could be that I've totally misunderstood things and not for the first time.
Nigel Atkins

When I had my MGB V8 roadster it had coolant (4-Life as it happens) showing at the water pump, as they're known to go and a more knowledge person took a quick look and confirmed it was water pump leak.

But as I had 4-Life in I was able myself to take a closer look and see the the direction of the 4-Life droplets sizes (it's good for this) and the droplets got smaller towards the rad and bigger on the pump, hence I was able to deduce the more knowledgeable person with their quick look had assumed wrong and it was the rad that was leaking - worth its use just to save unnecessarily replacing the water pump and helping an idiot like me work out the source of the leak with just my eyes.

I would put perhaps this proves 4-Life is best for idiots, :) - but that might upset Mike and others that use it, and upset them to be classed with me. :)

Are we going for 500 posts!
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, I know what you may be half-recalling concerning my use of water only.
When I have had the cooling system substantially apart I usually just refill with plain water as a preliminary test that all is well. Then if there is still a need to drain out again I am not wasting any costly additive, of any description. If I am happy that all is well after a week or so, then I will drain off the required volume of water and top up with glycol.
GuyW

Cheers Guy, I was close-ish by my memory standards but no cigar.

I've not looked (having been a very satisfied 4-life customer, perhaps until now) but is the antifreeze you mix yourself with water still widely available, I've only noticed the premixed type now, in the very few places I've very occasionally been in.

BTW in theory you'd only fill once every 10 years with 4-Life (unless you have a big loss) as you can reuse what you drain (for those with drains/taps on block, rad and crosspipe) as a dry fill takes (on a 1275 x-flow) - just a second I'll look it up in a book I've got - 3.4 litres including heater so a 5l can would leave 1.6l for top ups.
Nigel Atkins

All that crud comes from two main sources.

1. Is the casting sand and odd bits of cast iron flashing that gets left behind in the original manufacturing of the block - I have actually removed quite big lumps of iron from the waterways and often there is a large build up of sand behind the number 4 cylinder. I always spend a good hour or so with long masonry drills on hammer action to clear out the water jacket, followed by an air powered needle gun to clean surface rust off every reachable part.

2. Is corrosion - both rust and aluminium salts from the heater valve.

Pure distilled water would be the best coolant from the point of specific heat but to minimise corrosion you need a corrosion inhibitor. Glycol antifreeze contains corrosion inhibitors and I would recommend a 25% solution of AF at all times - changed annually.

I have taken apart more engines than I care to remember but one stands out in my memory - it belonged to a chap who had the car from new and always changed the AF every year - the inside of that engine was as clean as the day it left the factory, absolutely no sign of rust in the waterways at all.
Chris at Octarine Services

Since an engine is made from a mixture of metals, using plain water is going to lead to electrolytic corrosion isn't it? Antifreeze does more than stop freezing. It also contains corrosion inhibitors.
Mike Howlett

Nigel

The crud comes from the block, pump and more usually the rad itself. Corrosion inhibitors in the antifreeze solution will assist in its prevention, but as much of the coolant is water which presents a very tempting electrolyte to any metal, especially when hot, some corrosion will occur. Sadly some corrosion inhibitors also coat the inside of the radiator coolant channels and reduce the cooling efficiency. Another reason why you should change the coolant and flush/backflush accordingly.

I am not suggesting you use pure water as a coolant. The addition of glycol (in the antifreeze), as well as depressing the freezing point - useful in winter, also elevates the boiling point - useful in summer or when in a traffic jam. What I am suggesting though is that you add only the minimum required, as adding further glycol than necessary effectively reduces the efficiency of the cooling system. I would doubt though whether this would present an issue if you did overdose somewhat on the glycol - unless you went 100% glycol perhaps

In theory, you could use 100% water, but this would accelerate corrosion, increase the load on the water pump, you may boil over in a traffic jam, and of course may crack your block in winter.

I can still buy undiluted antifreeze easily enough. In an emergency, and only if you really must, then I guess you could try de-icer instead!

Mark Ogden

Thanks, Chris, Mike and Mark for your replies.

Using pure distilled water, even as part of the coolant mix as I advocated was previously countered by FRM but that's in another (long?) thread, those that are interested can look it up.

The aspect of the chap who changed the coolant every year that I like is that he started with a (reasonably?) clean engine from the factory and kept it clean but for most of us our engines have been used and possibly abused by previous owners, possibly for decades, and unless it’s a race engine, or street engine rebuilt by the likes of Chris, then it’s doubtful that the waterways have been fully cleaned out.

Nigel Atkins

Mark,
are all (glycol) based coolants the same and equal, just focusing on the additive package they will vary. Why does 4-Llife advertise a 10 year life but the Halfords only 2, I might be wrong (again) but I think of it the say way as I do oils, not even the basic oil is always exactly the same and the composition and quality of the additive packages vary.

I also wonder about brake fluids if one brand/model of dot 3 or 4 might be better than most.

Beers all have the same basic ingredients yet some taste so much better than others (hardly any difference in imitation lagers or national keg beers of course), we could all bake a cake but some would turn out much better than others. Things that are often referred to as "all basically the same” can have a lot of variation.

ETA: I like that excellent idea of “and flush/backflush” but then you knew I would. :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel

I suspect coolants do differ - as you say in the additives offered - but I suspect they will not differ too much in the glycol content for a stated like for like operating range.

I don't know why 4Life offer a 10 year life without understanding what the constituent chemicals are, but I would suspect there is a healthy dose of inhibitors of one kind or another in there.

Personally, I would not like to go 10 years without changing the coolant - even if filled with 4life which appears to still mainly contain that lovely electrolyte - water. The risk of fouling the cooling system with either crud or a coating of inhibitor is too great, and besides which, flushing and changing the coolant is (usually!) very easily accomplished on a Spridget.
Mark Ogden

Mark,
you'd want to do a lot of flushing with especially a x-flow system with no drain on cross pipe as a lot of residue flush water remains in the engine, heater, rad and cross pipe.

There's a bit of hassle involved in taking out the engine block drain plug and having the coolant spill over the chassis as it drains from taking the bottom hose off, collecting the old coolant and all flush water to dispose of properly, clearing all up, watching the water meter dials overheat and before you know it two years have passed again. Pleasure to hassle ratio reduced by 80% for this work over 10 years. :)
Nigel Atkins

surely you simply remember to flush everything out as part of the re-assembly procedure after changing the gearbox, clutch or thrust bearing - which from reading the forum seem to happen to most people at two year intervals ;-)
davidsmith

Nigel

I appreciate the hassle to yourself, but it is not a particularly onerous a task to me. More importantly perhaps, it is the risk of leaving the same coolant in there for 10 years that seems - to me at least - unacceptable.
Mark Ogden

David,
yes if you do the work yourself or you are able to do it at an intervening distress, rushed fix on something else engine or coolant related.

Mark,
as soon as I can keep it for 10 years I'll let you know but I think that my mate's 20+ year old Toyota Supra has had it's 4-LIFE since it left the factory, certainly he's never had it changed and he's had the car 10+ years, mind you it's the age of Toyota where you rarely lift the bonnet anyway.


Nigel Atkins

Hmmm.....and did you both go halves on the paint?
Oggers

Whatever happened to Fletcher (FRM) - is he still around?
Chris at Octarine Services

Oggers,
that's the lack of Welsh light the Supra is a much lighter, brighter red.

When I posted the photo I thought, blimey I was even fatter than I remember but then remembered that we'd put our hands on our hips and blew out our bellies (a bit, no honestly) to look like tubby old guys talking about parked cars.

Chris,
he disappeared and it looks like he might now have abducted Prop.
Nigel Atkins

I only read the 1st few threads...

The comtic head gasket is the best in my few
Prop and the

Now I am worried about you Prop -you're on topic when many of us haven't been.

I think you might be an imposter.
Nigel Atkins

This has been an interesting thread but I'm afraid I would have to put forward the same arguments as many have when talking about the pros and cons of using taper roller bearings.

Rob
MG Moneypit

This thread was discussed between 05/03/2017 and 11/03/2017

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