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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - mg midget engine swap

hello there all i have a rusty 1991 Toyota celica gt4 turbo with a good engine.has anybody done this conversion before is it possible and if so what gear box would be used.
mm morgan

If im not mistaken... isnt that a side mounted engine and NOT an inline

Converting a midget into a front wheel drive could be fun, but gez that would be alot of work

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Does it matter? Gearbox still goes on the end of the crank, not the side!

GT4 was 4wd was it not?

Malc.
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Malcolm,

The issue often comes down to whether the gearbox and engine are designed to mate together. FWD engines generally don't require a spigot bearing as the gearbox has a fully supported mainshaft as the drive is fully indrect unlike that of a RWD gearbox where 4th is typically a direct 1:1 drive and the spigot bearing helps provide support for the input shaft and therefore the mainshaft.

David Billington

Oh right, interesting David.

So it would be more of an issue of finding a gearbox that would work with the engine? I was just thinking of the k-series conversion. In it's native cars it is typically mounted as a transverse fwd engine but putting on in the Midget is pretty easy (so I am lead to believe!) :-D

Malcolm.
Malcolm Le Chevalier

According to my very general reading.

Modern engines and gearboxes generally separate able and much more mate able with stable mate options now than historically. ie ford zetec and mx5 gearbox. (the former generally mounted transverse in fords but no problem (apparently) to mate together in line for rwd. (mazda part of ford group, MX5 gearbox development of type9 but stronger and in most ford group 4wd and rwd with varying ratios).

Read generally from the kit car forums (who are using zetecs from fiestas, focusses and mondeos with MX5 gearboxes at the moment) while chasing down MX5 gearbox uses and mate ability as would like 5 speed in the future.

Dave Squire (1500)

Dave,

You want to be careful referring to an engine as Zetec as it is a Ford marketing term rather than a specific engine, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Zetec_engine . IIRC some will fit a type 9 directly and others the Mazda box depending on which specific 'Zetec' engine variant it is.
David Billington

I suspect its all to do with age and application at the time Dave. (Mine). Duratecs (now there's a mine field for the reliability conscious types) fit with the MX5 box as well but as always it pays to get it all straight before you jump and watch for the induction butterfly upgrades.
The Kit car fellers have lots of threads and info with examples.
Downside is that all these engines and kit if any good cost a packet second hand as there are current ford owners and garages chasing the good bits. Mainly cos lots of it is interchangeable and therefore usable.

Remember I'm just an ammer chewer offering snippets.
Dave Squire (1500)

Brand new full 2.0L Black Top Zetecs are £750 plus vat. Bargain, Fit straight onto the Sierra bell housing and Type 9 box or as in my car a T5 Cossy box.
145bhp std, easy upgrades to 170bhp and 200bhp or supercharged and 240bhp


J L HEAP

What exhaust manifold and propshaft do you use with the 'Zetec' conversion?
K Hughes

All props are made to order, and we have had manifolds made for our particular application in the Minor. I'm not sure if this would be any good in a Midget.Zetec fits nicely in the Midget and is a superb motor.

If you want a ready to go good reliable 190bhp and enough torque to pull tree stumps then have a look at this K series turbo.
I was going to use it in my demo car a while back, then offered it into my Midget, but funds ran out and the project shelved. Its brand new and has our own 36-1 flywheel and AP racing paddle clutch fitted, oil take off, bell housing, intercooler, oil cooler, etc etc. Engine loom included as could be a NOS Luminition ECU


J L HEAP

The Zetec manifold


J L HEAP

Quik testing of K turbo in Midget


J L HEAP

Well yes,

Anything is doable with enough cash and craftmanship

What I should have eleberated on in more detail, was the clutch and flywheel set up when converting from a transvers to an inline and vise versa

As an example...on the 1275 a series its definatly not plug and play to convert a transverse into an inline, you would have to have extensive work done to the crankshaft to be able to mount the flywheel and clutch ....the cost would be probiditive for most.


But is it doable ...sure it is, then so is shoe horning a chevy 454 V8 supercharged race motor into a mg midget and converting the suspension into a rock crawler 4wheel drive and modifiying the boot into a pick up truck bed....but good god the cost would astronomical

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

The K series is quite straight forward , little cost, as the crank either needs sleeving or machining out to accept the Ford spigot bush.
The Zetec is the last Ford engine to accept a Ford rwd box so again very simple.
The A series is actually quite easy if you 'cheat'. Simply use a Maestro unit, with the spigot in the flywheel rather than the crank.
Even VAG engines are ripe for conversion to rwd.
Thing is, scrap yard mods are getting harder to do as the old motors disappear, eventually leaving the more modern and often fwd motors. But to be honest if thinking of going down this route, then most mods will outweigh the value of the vehicle. Luckily a lot of owers simply want a modified individual car and are prepared to pay the price. However the power plant is only a fraction of the price as handling and braking also needs a look in.
J L HEAP

Don't forget the Vauxhall "Redtop" XE engine too! SBD Motorsport have a lot of knowledge on RWD XE applications, and all the required parts if you want to pay a bit more rather than doing a bit of shopping around.

If you run it on bike carbs with a megajolt and ford EDIS module a relatively cheap conversion. Mine cost around 1500 quid to do with a 5 speed type 9 gearbox!

Dave


D Prince

you could also opt for a bit more fuel and air in your stock engine. For example a nice supercharger combined with EFI (megasquirt).
a.o. arnold

Lost the thread? M M Morgan's question was about fitting a Celica gt4 turbo that he already has. And whether anyone has tried this. Not about other alternative engines although I suppose the point is that if other engines can be made to fit, then so perhaps can the gt4. I don't know the answer. Seemingly, no one else does either? But I imagine the limiting factor might be the overall engine height
Guy W

Guy

I dont know for certian, but I dateda woman once that had a cilica...from what I recall, I seriously doulbt that particular engine is going to be able to mate up to a inline gear box, I cant imagine there is a small enough flywheel to make it functional

That said, where there is a will theres a way, id never stand in the way of a man with a plan

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Propster. Mayhap a criterium for discussing engine swaps would be to have a running engine? For more than a day or two?

Les
Les Bengtson

The conversation broadened out soley because the relation ship from tranverse to rwd was raised in the initial question and some subsequent answers.
The intention to show that a lot is possible with this type of mod even if the specific Celica topic is unknown by many of us.Could also help others who are considering a modern power plant for their Midget.
There were rwd Celicas in this country in the 80's ( common fit in Minors and some Midgets) and today many drift cars employ this engine as rwd so it could be that the answer is just a google away.Flywheels can be sourced from earlier Celicas I'd have thought, but a bit of on line research will soon enlighten us all.
J L HEAP

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to rattle anyone's cage - just reminding that he (she?) was asking about a specific engine. But it is good to see the range of other engines successfully and very neatly installed. And Prop is right - gearbox compatibility is very relevant too!

Guy
(creeps back under his stone)
Guy W

Cages are meant to be rattled Guy. I agree with you. Nothing wrong with a bit of thread drift, I'm all in favour of it, -- as long as, at some point posters at least acknowledge the original poster instead of just showing off ;). Stand on top of your stone and be proud Guy.

So mm morgan. What have you learned? Has this discussion helped you?
Lawrence Slater

Guy, my cage not rattled, no need to appologise, I just thought, as, Lawrence, that sometimes going slightly off topic can help the original poster decide if their chosen route is do able and if not what else is available. Certainly no intention from me to brag or criticise.

As for 'showing off', not sure what is meant by this , but if its showing what others have done , then fine, as how else can we share information, with out showing it off ??

Dave, not seen the Red top conversion before, looks a reasonable fit too. Does the bonnet require modification. Supercharger sounds fun :)
J L HEAP

I did mediate my comment with "if other engines can be made to fit, then so perhaps can the gt4"

I like to see these conversions. I am always amazed at how neat they look!
Guy W

"As for 'showing off', not sure what is meant by this ," -- Are you sure your cage isn't rattled JP? lol.

Try the inclusive quote. "instead of just showing off ;)"

See the little wink there? ;).

Lawrence Slater

Nothing wrong with showing off Lawrence, when you've got something worth showing off! ;-)

And I meant to use the word mitigate, not mediate, earlier. Quite a different meaning.
Guy W

I agree Guy. My gf's have always appreciated my showing off. LOL.
Lawrence Slater

Not sure about JP's cage, but no, mine is'nt :)
Getting use'd to your banter now !:)LoL
J L HEAP

Yeah, who's this bloody JP interloper bloke anyway? Must be a mate of dick lexia. :).
Lawrence Slater

You know him then. lol :)
J L HEAP

An occasional acquaintance, who sometimes calls the day after the late night before. :)
Lawrence Slater

Fantastic
Where has mmMorgan and the Turbo Toyota engine gone to ?????
I think that engine will bolt up to the pre 1989 rwd bellhousing/gearbox Fairly bulletproof box A few guys here run them They are known as steel case Celica boxes Go for it
William Revit

This thread was discussed between 02/08/2013 and 06/08/2013

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