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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Midget 1500 five speed box

Ok finished all the outside of the midget now and starting to do some more serious driving. Next job is to lift out and do up the engine and while I am at it the gearbox needs consideration. I'm fed up with it revving its head off when fast cruising so what are my options for a 5 speed conversion? Don't fancy overdrive and would rather not mod the tunnel too much if possible. Are there any old 5 speed BL / Triumph boxes that match?
Alan McKewan

did the header rail seal trick work for the rain?

loads of threads and posts about 5-speed conversions in the Archives here, obviously you'd need to check they're for the 1500

having had a couple of classics with o/d and a couple more with 5-speed conversions I'm with you in preferring the 5-speed more
Nigel Atkins

Loads of 1275 5 speeders but cant find any for 1500..
Alan McKewan

Dolomite? I'd ask on the Spitfire boards...
David Smith

Alan,

There are a number of suppliers of the Ford Type 9 conversion for the Spitfire 1300/1500. Moss and Frontline offer the complete conversion kit, including gearbox, and Canley Classic offer a range of parts so that you can do it using your own supplied box.

Looks like it uses an adapter plate between the Triumph bellhousing and the Type 9 box, but is the Midget 1500 bellhousing the same as the Triumph one?

Richard
Richard Wale

Alan,
you might need to try more variations on your wording when searching the Archives as 1500 have definitely been covered

have these links from a search I've just done -

http://www.the-wizardsden.com/

http://croydon.amphibia.co.uk:76/convert.htm
Nigel Atkins

Hi,

Think watever route you choose you'll be cutting the gearbox tunnel a bit.


I've had a Spit o/drive box in my 1500 for over 20 years and it's fabulous.


Pretty easy conversion, prop fits str8 on, bellhousing is the same, tho you must use the Midget clutch slave and pushrod, plus a spitfirs clutch plate.



I seem to see so many threads on the forums about probs folk seem to have with the clutch release mech on type 9 conversions.


Plus the one I tried seemed to have the gearlever too far back and felt horrid to use.


Regards Steve.
SR Smith 1

Steve was posting so I missed my edit

ETA: note the links are to conversions done a while back

to add to what Steve has put, there can be clutch release problems (believe me I know only too well) but there needn't be

the T9 gearbox can be shorten to get the gear lever back to nearly its original position

if I was buying again I'd get the kit from somewhere like MGOC Spares and also in your case perhaps Canley
Nigel Atkins

Hi Alan as I sit writing this Colne Classic,s are fitting my Midget with a Ford Type 9 from a 79 Capri I paid £250 which probably a bit OTT but I was able to try it out before it come out. The rest of the kit I have used Frotline starter kit which they let me have at the pre price increase price ordered Monday arrived 10.00 Hrs Tuesday . Will let u know how it all went and how it performs.


C Walsh

Ive heard some reference to shortening so the gearstick doesnt end up so much further back than original, does this involve modifying the input shaft and bellhousing? I wouldnt mind this..
Alan McKewan

cut and shut of rear of box
Nigel Atkins

The 1500 with a Spitfire overdrive gearbox sounds like a great combination in terms of drivability - nice gear ratios and spacing for acceleration plus overdrive for constant speed cruising on A roads and motorways. Plus fewer issues for mating with the engine (meant for each other) and putting in a Midget 1500 shell.

Is the Spit overdrive gearbox overdrive on 3rd and top? And which Spit was it fitted to - MkIV 1500 cars? Am I correct in assuming 1200/1300cc Triumph Spitfire and Herald engines and gearboxes are quite different beasts to later Spitfire (and Toledo? Dolomite?) 1500 versions?

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Pretty sure it was only fitted to later 1500 Spits and Dollys, trouble is now it will be very hard to find one, I've been looking to no avail, hence thinking of type 9 or something else.
Alan McKewan

Does anyone know is the MX5 smaller than type 9 and is it an easy fit? Ive found one close by.
Alan McKewan

The MX5 is much bigger than a type 9 and has an integral bell housing.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

I'm going the Frontline Type 9 Kit route. At first I thought it massively expensive for what it was but I made a spreadsheet of all the things I'd need to do it without the kit and the cost was almost the same - I would have saved a bit but it would have involved a hell of a lot of extra work and, possibly, might mean learning from the mistakes that Frontline have already made/solved. Cutting the cross-member and welding in the strengtheners was easy once I had good access to it.
Nick Nakorn

Hi guys,


To go the overdrive route you'll need a Spitfire 1500 or Dolomite 1500 single rail box, the 1850 Dolly used the same g/box, but the bellhousing and input shaft are different, tho they can be swopped over from the existing Midget 1500 box. It works on 3rd and top gear btw.


You'll need the 20 spline clutch plate ], and the Midget clutch release mechanism as well needs swapping over.


Ideally get a Spitfire gearlver, the dolly one is very tall.


As to drivability, it's great fun. Originally I had the 3.7 diff which was a bit too high geared, now fitted a 3.9 which works a lot better. So lovely flicking that switch and seeing the revs drop at speed.


I've even fitted a sort of "kick-down" to my conversion, which automatically switches out the overdrive at full throttle, ie good for overtaking!


Fortunately I have a complete spare box and overdrive if mine ever plays up, but no probs in 25 years.


I've also run mine on 20/50 not EP90, as Laycock always specified that oil, a la MGB with a similar set up.


Been very happy with mine and it's nice to keep it to all BL components.


Regards Steve
SR Smith 1

Just seen this on e bay, well worth it just for the g/box and overdrive alone...........



w.ebay.co.uk/itm/triumph-dolomite-spitfire-engine-and-gearbox-/121310377072?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c3ea97470




SR Smith 1

How about an 1850 Midget?

Rob aka MG Moneypit

Seen one in a Spitfire Rob, but figured its hardly worth it, the slant four was not a great engine and it's wide, doubt if would fit a spridget engine bay without major mods and a bonnet bulge as well.



Be watching that one tho, it looks cheap atm
SR Smith 1

Absolutely endorse what SR Smith says about the Triumph overdrive. A quite different experience to driving a 5 speed. Much more of a "period" feel about it and, yes, flicking that little gearknob switch is a very quick and slick way of changing gears! Great fun on fast twisty roads!
I currently have a T9 on a 1275, but in many ways I think the overdrive box matched better to the 1500.
Guy W

IIRC Brain Wheeler, of Wheeler & Davies who make mk1 bodyshells, had a frogeye with a Dolomite Sprint engine in it and it had a large bonnet bulge which I didn't think did anything for the looks of the car.
David Billington

Hi guys,



You're so right Guy, flickng from 3rd into overdrive 3rd round the lanes is great fun and really suits the 1500 as it's a nice torquey unit.


The 2 litre Sprint is a big heavy engine as well, plus the matching gearbox is a large chunky item, as it's basically the 2000/2500/TR, Stag unit. Plus the one I had always sounded clattery and rough, and the cooling system was marginal due to the daft water pump design.
SR Smith 1

What about van gearboxes?
Are any of the more modern Transit boxes the same or usable? Or even a 6 speed? Someone on fleabay is claiming the Mk 3 transit box is type 9 but with a further forward stick position. Dont mind having to my own mods on teh box as long as its not too big. Theres a local van scrapper who is easy to pay..
Alan McKewan

Is this ok?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-type-9-gearbox-5-speed1-6-2-0-litre-type-/131159621741?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e89b9006d
Alan McKewan

Hi all , as the advert said I did it Rory , have just had fitted Ford type 9 to my midget . ( pic of box on early post the input shaft is 175mm with 23 spines ) well what can I say it's a completely differant midget no gear box whines or unclean gear charge,s can even hear the radio . I used the Front line kit all fitted great whilst engine out had all the core plugs replaced great job by Colne Classic Clacton on sea revs are well done and for the first time got her up to 70mph ,speedo is over reading by 9 mph against gps will get speedo cables to re calibrate for me had quote £80.00 plus usual donation to government finish off with a gearstick grommet and ring from MGB well pleased.
C Walsh

it might not happen but be aware that some rubber gaiters can be too tight and pull the gear lever out of gear, particularly on over run

I tried several gaiters but in the end just butchered my existing gaiter as it's hidden under the cloth type outer gaiter
Nigel Atkins

C Walsh.
How much in all, apart from the £250 for the box? Just curious.:).
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence
Total spend - box £1941.33 this include things like new slave cylinder bits for the fork pins bushes etc seals plastic selector oil for the type 9 new core plugs Colne Classic labour
C Walsh

Hmm,
My T9 installation coast under £200 in 2003. Including the 'box. But I did make most of the parts myself, other than the bell housing itself.
Guy W

Hi guys,


Bloody hell, nearly £2K to do a type 9 fit? Makes the overdrive conversion look cheap!
SR Smith 1

Yes it does! My 1500 Overdrive box cost £60 and again, I made all the rest of the bits. But that was nearly 20 years ago now!
Guy W

Ok I am going with a type 9 from an in progress K conversion. Engine and box due to come out Wednesday.
However I will need to open it up first as it has no 3rd or 4th selection due to not being put in 4th when rebuilt after having the selector housing cut and moved forward.
Should I put in new seals when I am in there?
Alan McKewan

From a "I've had a leaky type 9" experience POV, yes

better dry than wet

outside
Bill1

Allan,
<<" it has no 3rd or 4th selection due to not being put in 4th when rebuilt">>

When I made that same mistake (not selecting 4th) all the gears worked fine except for 5th.

Are you sure that not selecting 4th is the cause of the problem in your case?
Guy W

This thread was discussed between 22/03/2014 and 12/04/2014

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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