MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Midget wont start

I have recently incurred an issue, my midget 1500 will not start. The starter motor turns over the engine, however the car does not spring into action as per normal. I believe it may well be an issue with power getting to the spark plugs, however I have just changed the ignition coil, and HT leads, plus cleaned the plugs, this has not worked.

All connections have been checked and appear fine and dandy.

Could it be an issue with the distributor, or maybe with the wiring?

Is there any other way of checking for any possible issues, which would prevent the car starting?

G A Reynolds

G A

You need to methodical, just changing parts in the hope of fixing it will cost un-necessary money at best and introduce other issues at worst.

I would suggest you start with the electrics, remove the plugs, connect them to the HT leads and lay them on the side of the engine and get someone to try starting it. You should see a nice blue spark at each plug. No spark indicates an electrical problem and weak yellow spark would indicate a condenser.

If that's ok check fuel, the easy way is to remove the tops of one or both of the carbs to see if there’s any fuel in the float bowls. This doesn't prove the fuel is getting into the engine but it's a good start.

These tests are only basic tests but you need to try these things first, once you know which is causing the problem you can concentrate all your attention on that area.

You only need three things for an engine to run, fuel (inside the engine), compression and a spark at the correct time.

Bob
R.A Davis

Bob,

Cheers for the help, I will try that tonight and let you know how I get on.

Grant
G A Reynolds

Grant,
Have you replaced the points recently?
Guy

I have tested as you suggested. There is definitely petrol reaching the engine, as it is both present in the carbs, and also the spark plugs become moist with fuel after a couple of attempts to start the engine.

The spark plugs create a bright blue spark, when the ignition is turned on.

Have you got any suggestions as to why it might not be playing the game with me?

Grant

G A Reynolds

Is the engine trying to start at all, ie is there the occasional kick of a plug firing, or is it totally dead?

Have you replaced the plug leads in their correct positions?

The distributor hasn't somehow moved round to completely untime the ignition due to a loose pinch bolt?
JB Anderson

I was wondering about leads perhaps being in wrong order

also always worth checking battery charge level and earth leads
Nigel Atkins

Yeah it seems to be getting fuel and you got good spark, id agree wrong firing order would be next 1-3-4-2... Remember the dissy is counter clock wise....

1 to1
Dissy 2 to 3
Dissy3 to 4
Dissy 4 to 2


It could be flooded... Stick a long lit match in the spark plug hole

Then try some starter spray in the carbs

The engine will pretty much fire at any dissy setting as long as its not extreme.. somewhere. In the mid range

Btw... The liquid in tue clyinders was fuel and not water ... Correct???


Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Dissy 1 starts at the dissy cap post with the rotor under it pointing to #1 spark plug...then go counter clockwise around the dissy cap
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

So that is the issue with starting corrected. You were right that I had not connected the HT leads in the correct firing order, however I have now found a new problem, and one I think will be a little more timely to fix.

The car starts first time, which is brilliant, however when I then try to select a gear, it will not engage. The clutch pedal has the same feel as normal, and it is taking the gears when not powered up.

When I try to select reverse, or first, the car sound like the gears are rubbing together, and the car jerks violently.

I would take a guess that it is an issue with the clutch but I am probably wrong.

Grant
G A Reynolds

Grant,
It sounds like the clutch needs bleeding.
But give us some background.
How long have you had the car? Has it worked properly for you previously? What recent changes have taken place, have you been working on it? Check the clutch reservoir, is it filled up to the top?
Guy

I have had the car a little over a year, it has been garaged since september, due to be being abroad for 7 months. I did however pop back and drove it for an hour or so in February.

Since coming home, I have replaced the ignition coil from the standard and original lucas coil to a sports coil. I have also replaced the old HT leads with silicon sports grade leads, cleaned the spark plugs, and that has been it.

In september it was working fine, first time starter, no issues, it managed a 2 week UK 'Tour' last summer. In February there was some problems with the ignition, but that is all sorted now.
G A Reynolds

This shows the new HT leads, the new coil is just out of shot.


G A Reynolds

OK,
I was meaning any changes in relation to the clutch / gears problem as you seem to have cured the starting issues.

But if you drove it OK in February then the most likely issue is to do with the clutch hydraulics. Did you check the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder?

Guy

blimey where'd you get dem leads :)

Grant,
I can't quite see but I'm not sure they look in the correct order - if the car is running well then I'm wrong

the firing order from looking at the dissy cap from above is 1, 3, 4, 2 going anticlockwise
Nigel Atkins

How does the starter sound when you crank it?

Have you stuck a voltmeter across the battery terminals? If you've been away for ages the battery will almost certainly be flat. If it reads anything less that 12.4v its flat. Try jumping of another vehicle.

Are any of the carb linkages stuck, choke... throttle... have you had the air filter off and tried to move the carb pistons... anything can happen if you let a car sit for ages.

I also agree with Nigel, I don't think your leads are in the right order (but that doesn't mean it wouldn't start - it would make one hell of a noise if you ran it like that - but it would probably start)

GL



C L Carter

reservoir is all good, plenty of fluid, this would then lead on to bleeding if I am correct? I have never done that before, is it relatively easy?
G A Reynolds

Christian,
car starting problem has been resolved but looking at those leads with a twisted neck they just looked wrong to me

which reminded me about the leads I got

Grant,
could you rotate photo before posting please to save my neck :)
Nigel Atkins

Grant,
have a look in the Archives for details of clutch bleeding

I'd also suggest checking your gearbox oil level and condition (it wont be the cause of your current problem but does help with gear changes and keeping box in good condition)
Nigel Atkins

I should have mentioned that I have changed the leads since the photo was taken, hence why the car is now working, I will post a new photo later.

Can anyone point me to the Clutch bleed valve?
G A Reynolds

Ah yes, thanks Nigel.

1. the clutch bleed nipple is on the slave cylinder under the car, attatched behind the gearbox bell housing. However...

2. It sounds to me that your clutch fluid is fine, you said the pedal feels normal, and why would it not be since you last used the car.

3. The issue you have described to me sounds like the clutch is seized on... happens alot when you leave the car for a while... If this is the problem... easiest way to sort problem is stick it in 4th then try and jam it free by rocking the car... you'll feel it free up when it goes.

When I leave an old vehicle for a long time I jam a piece of wood between the seat and clutch pedel to keep if free from the plate.

GL
C L Carter

The bleed will be at the top above the supply pipe

Just suggestions for the future, you could add you vehicle profile to save having to put which model and year your car is with posts and you could buy copies of the (factory) Driver’s Handbook and Workshop Manual, paper forms are best I think

(Ref: 0058) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

(Ref: 0002) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Workshop_Manuals.html

or both are on the less convenient DVD - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-HMCC3010DVD

ETA: good point from Christian, unfortuneately cars pick up many problems from standing unused

Nigel Atkins

GL,

I have attempted your solution, however it wont free up, I have tried for about 20 minutes to no avail.

Is there any other way to free up the clutch plate, I don't really fancy taking the whole thing apart.

I think that if I can't sort it tonight, I will see if the garage have some time to take a look at it.

Grant
G A Reynolds

Grant,
again there's info on this in the Archives, sorry but I have a very bad memory but I think I'm right in thinking the easiest solution (if the hydraulics are good) is to wedge a piece of wood to keep the clutch pedal fully depressed and leave as long as possible preferably overnight
Nigel Atkins

Well,

1. Get some strong men around and put it in a lower gear and repeat as above.

2. Stick it in 1st and try starting it - not advisable as a day to day practise, but i've done it a few times accidently when starting the car. Car should lunge forward. I would be amazed if that doesn't work. Be advised you are stressing the starter motor so don't holder the starter down for more than 5 seconds.

C L Carter

Grant,
I've just thought, I'm not sure how much the (factory) Workshop Manual cover the 1500 so you might have to rely on something like an 80s or later edition of Haynes or other aftermarket manuals

in the Haynes I've founds errors and not always of good use to the likes of me with like mechanical knowledge

ETA: I've also just noticed Christian's last line about stick on pedal, sorry I missed it
Nigel Atkins

Sorry Grant,

I should have been more specific. You will need to have someone sitting in the car with the clutch depressed while you rock the car. Or if you are on your own... use the wood trick.
C L Carter

I'm going mad (er than usual)

there's a reprint of the factory Workshop Manual for the 1500 -
(Ref: 0018) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Workshop_Manuals.html

sorry, I'm too used to dealing with 1275s only and also easily confused - and no good at doing two things at once
Nigel Atkins

There is another violent way to free the clutch

Jack up the rearend... Start the car up in gear, get it reving good and have someone knock the rear end off the jack stands...thus dropping the car on the ground and taking off as it hits...jam the clutch a few times... It should work... At leasy thats what ive heard here on the forum

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I have tried again, this time with some help, however the clutch is still not free, I have left it with a stick on the clutch pedal, so we will see if that works tomorrow.
G A Reynolds

I have found in the past to free the clutch I started the car in neutral warm it up properly, switch of,select first.press the clutch in,check the handbrake is on and then try and start the car. This usually works for me. On one occasion when it didn't I started the car in gear and set off across a large car park, I then proceeded to drive around in first gear with foot on the clutch then using heel and toe of the right foot apply plenty of revs while pressing hard on the brakes. There was a bang and the clutch was free!! There was no harm done and I now make sure when leaving the car off the road I try to start it up,warm the engine up and slip the clutch a little to clean it up.

Good luck Carl
C Bintcliffe

Cheers for the help, the problem is sorted, I pushed the car out of the garage started, chucked it is reverse, and almost straight away it 'clunked' into place.

Now onto sorting out the sluggishness.
G A Reynolds

This thread was discussed between 16/04/2012 and 19/04/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.