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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - MINILITE FRITE

I fitted a set of 5J 'Minilite' wheels to the midget 1500 a couple of years back and, fortunately, when I rolled the car out of the garage this morning the hand brake decided to stick on. I say fortunately because when I jacked it up to check the hand brake malfunction I noticed THE R/O/S WHEEL WAS LOOSE!!!

The wheel was not faced against the hub. There was interference between the 'dome' of the half shaft and the chamfer on the inner face of the wheel and over a few thousand miles some chattering has taken place between the faces. R/N/S is just the same. See attached piccie and another to follow.

Needless to say I will be letting the supplier know and if any of you have these wheels you might want to spend five minutes with a jack and wheelbrace just to put your mind at rest.

I am of course assuming it is the wheels at fault, not the axle. Unless anyone has had similar experience and is able to give me some guidance, my intended course of action is to get about 1mm machined off the offending chamfer of each wheel.

Adam


A. H. Price

Second piccie.....


A. H. Price

Had a similar fit issue with an MGB I had, but noticed it as soon as I put the wheels on. The supplier gave me a set of 3mm shims and blamed my hubs.
John Collinson

What make of Minilite?

I've had no problems with K&N Minators...

A
Anthony

There are some KN copies around, but the hub face of the wheel doesnt look too robust with just the metal in the area of the studs and no ring to transfer the load into the spokes, just my 2 peneth, but most alloys have more meat in this area.

Looking at your problem it could be sorted out with a wheel spacer, but thats not the point, they should be fit for purpose to start with!!

All the best

Mark
Mark Turner

Beware there are a lot of fake wheels being sold at the moment, check the spelling on the boxes some are "Minilight" not Minilte.

Also genuine Minator made by Minilite is marked "Made in England" and has "K&N" on the wheel.

I got a set of fakes without knowing for my BGT and a wheel came off.

After a chat with a very understanding bloke at Minilite, he confirmed my wheels where fakes and how to tell...
K Harris

Spacers? shouldn't you put longer studs in then to allow the nut full engagement?
K Harris

if a 3mm spacer is used (per other post) then the std studs will be long enough, they don't have to poke right through (in fact they can't with closed chrome nuts) but IIRC 1.5 times stud diameter is the recommended minimum engagement.
David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom

Apparently KN have some of their wheels made in China and branded 'SCP'
Dave O'Neill 2

http://www.scp-uk.com/

So do they make or Import?

These are not K&N (Minilite own license on K&N wheels and make them in the UK)
K Harris

From their website it looks like they manufacture links nad they import the wheels.

The hub hole is probalby a situation of "loosing something in the translation" when they went to a country of undetermined origin to source the wheel vendor.

Reverse engineering is easy ...IF the sample IS CORRECT....and only IF.

There are some excellent wheel mfgrs in China and Taiwan BTW. The operative word here is SOME.

First thing you do when you buy a set of wheels before tire mounting is check the clearances with the wheel on the car. (:<).
NLA

wouldnt it be easier and safer to have the wheel machined a bit more.

prop
Prop

The other difference is Original Minilite K&N's are skimmed on the inside of the wheel, so they are round unlike the fake ones...
K Harris

Adam

What identifying markings are on the wheels?
Dave O'Neill 2

The Fakes I had only had "Minator and SCP" on the wheel, no date of manufacture on the inside face of Hub, not skimmed inside the wheel and no country of origin shown, oh and the box says Minilight!!

Be warned!!!
K Harris

I wont name the suppliers on here, but if anyone wants names email me..
K Harris

I fitted what I thought were KN Minators last year (I was told by the retailer they where KN). I've just checked the fit. They have a large chamfer at the rear of the central hole so clear the boss on the hub. However the boxes they came in say made in China and the wheels are marked SCP, Minator, 13J. No KN and no Made in UK. So assume these are copies unless SCP have changed country of manufacture. Quality looks good though.

Steve
Steve Church

Check the taper on your wheel nuts, against the counter sink on the wheel!!
K Harris

Mine are skimmed on the inside. Not seen the inside of an original to compare against but mine look well finished.

Steve
Steve Church

Thank you all for your responses.

I am very annoyed with myself for not noticing the problem when I fitted them but I suppose that being old school and nipping them up finger tight first then adding half a turn each nut in ‘firing order’ I was unfortunate that they pulled up level. If I’d pulled just one up tight there would have been a very noticeable run out at the rim.

I have no idea of the manufacturer (and I suspect I would be unable to pronounce the town of origin) but at about three hundred and fifty quid for a set of four complete with 145 T Yokohamas mounted and delivered with chrome valve caps, chrome nuts and a pretty MG logo in the centre I knew they were never going to be the real thing. It’s worth mentioning that we are cruisers rather than competitors so we were happy with the deal at the time.

Markings on the inside of the wheel are:
ET 2/0 369 0/4 and something that resembles a herring bone.
The size is 13x5J.

I will be happy to run with 2 or 3mm shims, probably cheaper than machining. David's rule of thumb for minimum stud/nut engagement rings a bell with me so no sleep lost there. Does anyone have the contact details for a supplier, please?

Adam
A. H. Price

Forgot to mention, I checked the mating taper between nuts and wheels, all OK there.
Adam
A. H. Price

Adam,
You can get 3mm shims from Minispares at £8.23 per pair. May be best to check dimensions with them first to make sure the center hole is big enough.

When I fitted 'Minators' I fitted longer studs at the front. I wanted to fit longer ones at the rear also but would probably have to take the half shafts out, so haven't done it yet. I reconned that I had about one stud diameter engagement which I thought a bit shallow.

Steve
Steve Church

I doubt that I wouold gratuitously change the studs at this point, but I would consider them a bit suspect. After all, these are not the meatiest of studs and the treatment they just had involved stresses that were not really part of the design parameters. OTOH, the next time I was to pull the halfshafts, I would make a point of installing new studs.
David "not that studly" Lieb
David Lieb

Am I missing something here. I have always assumed that the studs forced the wheel into the right position so what would be wrong with opening out the centre hole to fit over the halfshaft?
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

Whats wrong with Rostyles?
Note the Miata passenger seat. My current project.
Phil


Phil

Adam,

Looks like I've got the same wheels with the same problem!




Allan ('76 Midget 1500)

and the wheel.......


Allan ('76 Midget 1500)

Allan, can you show the other side of the wheel?
K Harris

Looks like it, Allan. Were they supplied by Watford Classics?
Adam
A. H. Price

>>> Whats wrong with Rostyles? <<<

I have Rostyles, and they look great since I repainted them. Trouble with mine is that years of overtightening (not by me!) has caused them to dish in the middle, bending the studs inwards slightly. Replacing the studs with new straight ones causes the nuts to engage only partially with the wheel holes; meaning, they taper no longer contacts all the way around.

Sorry, I know I've mentioned this before. But it's a chronic issue with Rostyles, and although I like the factory look, if I had the money I'd spring for some alloys without a second thought, just to correct the issue with the distortion and (very slightly) bent studs.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Yes....Watford Classics via e-bay

Here's the other side of the wheel. You can see that after two years the varnish has started to separate from the wheel (Just to the left of the picture)




Allan ('76 Midget 1500)

And more....

I've run a file round the edge of the recess and sprayed the wheel to use as witness. I'll take it for a run tonight and report back tomorrow.




Allan ('76 Midget 1500)

Even more.....

Take a look at the picture of the rear of the wheel. Does an alloy wheel usually need so many weights to achieve a balance?

Also for info, I had to cut a chunk of thread off of the track rod ends to clear the front wheels balance weights.

Allan
Allan ('76 Midget 1500)

They are the Chinese fakes, the balance weights that came on mine took up 1/4 of the wheel.

The other thing to check is jack the rear end up and spin them, look at the inside of the wheel and see if the wheel is round. Sounds stupid but my wheels where out 1.3mm of true, it either that or the centre are not in the centre.

I threatened WC with trading standards (not fit for purpose) got my money back
K Harris

About a year ago I purchased a set of Minilite replicas from Moss. After the previous thread on this subject I was concerned enough to contact Moss, and ask if my wheels were safe. Two were marked K&N made in England, and three were marked SCP.
Their answer was that they had used the same supplier for the last twenty years, and were happy with the quality, they thought that the supplier had changed his manufacturer, hence the different markings.
All the wheels look well made, and are machined on the inside, so I am reasonably happy with their answer.

Dave
Dave Barrow

I would love to know who the supplier is? as it seems they all over the place....

You would think a big company like Moss would order direct, not go through third parties..

Everyone loves being vague, on country of origin!!!
K Harris

One supplier I've used is MWS. who have a big stand at Stoneleigh spares days. I've bought a couple of sets from them at different times for the racer, the first lot are KN Minator and the later set don't seem to have a brand but look same as others in this thread - but I've not had any problems with seating, not that I've noticed anyway.


David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom

...and here are the backs, Minator on the right


David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom

I shaved some material off the recess and there is still some contact with the axle cover. After re-examining it though, I'm no longer concerned about the wheels and their seating. If you look at my first picture of the brake drum, you can see the outline of the wheel interface on the drum, suggesting to me that it all seats correctly. Also, I've done about 10 000 miles on these wheels and the only other problem I can see is the varnish peeling off. No signs of cracking etc. that I would expect to see on a dodgy wheel.

At the moment I'm more concerned about my rear brakes :-(

See my other thread appearing shortly.

Allan
Allan ('76 Midget 1500)

This thread was discussed between 02/04/2008 and 05/04/2008

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.