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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - MK1 Sidelights

Good morning All.

On a Frogeye, the front sidelights are shared with the indicator lens on a dual filament 5/21 watt bulb, and with a clear lens. With the sidelights off, the indicator flashing off and on should be OK, but I wonder if it will be as clear when the sidelight filament is also constantly on. Perhaps in the dark it would be OK but not so sure if one was using lights in, say gloom or fog.

I would always drive on dipped headlights, but I think the wiring is designed so the sidelights also come on which will reduce the contrast with the indicator. One solution might be to rewire the switch so that sidelights are not on when headlights are, or alternatively to have sidelight bulbs mounted in the headlamps rather than with the indicators. I am not sure that either of these are legal, given the inboard positioning of the Frog headlights. Does anyone know?

With today’s traffic I think a clear white indicator at the front is maybe not that easy to see. Using the headlamp bowl for sidelights would mean one could put amber lenses on the indicators, as at the rear which would be more obvious.

Any views on this?

GuyW

Mine is wired as standard. I often get the impression that other road users don't always see a flashing white indicator whether or not the side lights are illuminated. As far as the intensity of the light goes, it's no different to the combined side light/brake light cluster that most cars have.
Simon Wood

Mine has the original set up. My observation would be how often the cars are going to be used in gloom or fog. I would hazard a guess not that often. If so dipped headlights are likely to be on anyway.
Bob Beaumont

Guy..everyone knows I'm a dinosaur and my GAN 4 is pretty much a factory issue car BUT I am rather keen on keeping myself safe on the road so personally would opt for some means of colouring the flasher...in any case I think that all "modern" cars have amber flashers back and front.

Hang on...what about those AUDI strings....??



I'll get me coat!
David Cox

Thinking about this, Most modern cars here have clear lenses and coloured globes, How would you go converting the bulb holder to a single contact one and fitting an orange single element globe (led or normal) and then drill the bottom of the light base and poke a smaller bodied 5w globe up in there for a parky--similar to how some headlights have them--It's important and probably a legal requirement for the park light to be seen from the side--I don't know how cars with the parks in the headlights get through rego. checks, but they seen to.
Remember back in about the mid to late sixties on MGBs they had to turn the front parklights around so the parkies could be seen from the side
willy
There's an opening in the market, someone should make an led globe that's white on park but flashes orange--hmmmm
William Revit

Got me thinking and found a mob here that makes a replacement globe to fix your problem
Here's the writeup-----
------------------

White/Amber LED Park/Indictator 12 volt

This unique LED is designed to replace the 1157 type sidelight/indicator bulb. I gives a warm white light on side light and flashes Amber when turn signals are activated. +ve or-ve gnd. Available as Bay15d or ba15d base. (Full electronic Flasher Can may be needed to flash at correct rate)
--------------------
I can chase it up for you if you want and see what the go is with them
What's the difference between Bay15d and bal15d---which one for the sprite






William Revit

The reason for asking just now is that I am still sourcing properly shaped domed headlights. I have found some, but they have the hole for a sidelight bulb. I could block this off but it got me thinking about using this for the sidelights and just adding coloured lenses to the front indicators.

This would give a clearer direction indication at the front but I am not sure if sidelights within the headlamp on a Frogeye are allowed as they are not that close to the outside corner of the vehicle.

Bob, I am not convinced by your "rarely used in gloom or fog" My cars get used all year round in all sorts of conditions. But anyway its not the dimnes of sidelights that matters because one would always drive with dipped headlights anyway. Its the clarity of the white indicator bulbs, either in contrast to the sidelight bulb if it is on, or even as seen in bright sunlight.

Willies LED globes seem to be a viable solution, whilst retaining the external appearance of the original clear glass indicator lens at the front.


GuyW

Willy

It’s funny you should mention MGBs. I think it was only Australian assembled cars which had the issue. UK built cars always had the sidelights on the outside.

Spridget, however, had the sidelights on the inside and indicators outside.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave, you're probably right, but then some historically significant cars like Barry Siderley Smith's factory racer for example has the amber on the outside, then I'd imagine they've been out once or twice in their hectic life
I've sent a message to the guy with the white/orange leds, it turns out he's an MGCC fella , I'll report back when I get a reply
willy

Found out the difference between bay15 and bal15 globes
Bal15 has offset height side pins and bal15 has them both at the same height
Being a twin element globe I would imagine the Sprite globe would be offset so Bal15
Would that be correct---offset pins--?????
William Revit

Did I write that-----oops
Bay15 has the offset pins
William Revit

Here's my solution. LEDs that come on a silicone rubber strip and are cut to however many you want. Fiddly to install, and they are hard wired so if they fail.....but they almost never do. I've checked and this setup seems to be legal for this age of car.

You can also get a clear bulb that flashes orange, but expensive.

The angle of the photo is odd because the bonnet is off the car and standing up!

Les


L B Rose

I used this setup on my (UK) frogeye, very pleased with results. 10 minutes to swap the relay and then simply swap all 4 bulbs - they are so much brighter.

When on, the front sidelight is white until the indicator comes on, at which point the white goes out and it then flashes amber like a modern car. About half a second after the indicator is switched off the white light magically comes back on again.

Front white/amber sidelight/indicator bulb:
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection/products/bay15d-1157-warm-white-and-amber-tail-sidelight-and-indicator-combined-led-380

Rear indicator bulb:
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection/products/bright-amber-smd-led-indicator-bulbs-ba15s-glb382

Dashboard bulb:
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/products/glb987-e10mes-green-8-smd-led-flat-bulbs-dashboard-gauge-lighting

LED compatible relay:
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/indicator-relays-electronic/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin

38mm clip to hold relay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252046159080
Clive Seager

Wow, I wish I'd spotted that Clive! Will bear in mind for when my LEDs fall to bits.

Les
L B Rose

Les, with amber LED indicators where the sidelights are supposed to be, are your sidelights now mounted in the headlamp unit?
GuyW

Thanks for those very useful links, Clive.
I see you have posted the same on the Facebook discussion on much the same topic.
GuyW

Just as an alternative (and a good quality supplier) -

Classic Dynamo & Regulator Conversions -
http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/combined-side-and-indicator-bulbs-shop.php
Nigel Atkins

This is the contact for the guy here
His globes are $25 each here----I was going to hit him up for a bulk order BUT he supplies to the UK anyway so probably cheaper getting them there--hope this has put some light in your lenses----------------willy

http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/page11.html

http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/

Funnybit is-----we're probably all on the same guy / globes

Reading through this page he's supplying to the UK---
http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/page9.html
William Revit

Willey, maybe they are the same, but the link that Clive posts are £8 each for the amber flashing / white side lamps = $15 as against your $25.

Anyway, after all that I have certainly learned something useful and will wire up the to the normal small sidelights i the wings and not to an auxiliary bulb within the headlamp bowl which was my alternative.

....Unless I do both, and switch the small headlight bulbs as separate running lights ..!
GuyW

The other thing I did with the LEDs was add a very simple 'hazard lights' feature. Basically at the bonnet connection cluster of bullets by the master cylinder there are two double bullet connectors that connect the existing three wires of each indicator circuit together (green/white) (green/red).

So an extra wire into the spare bullet position on these two existing connectors are then wired to a new switch. This then enables you to join all 4 bulbs together, so that when turning the indicator on it will now flash all 4 bulbs. This works fine due to the LED style relay (wouldn't work with the original flasher unit).

It's not a proper hazard light feature as the ignition still needs to be turned on - but is so simple to do and in my opinion is better than no hazards at all! All you need is two bits of wire, two bullet crimps and a switch.


Clive Seager

Nice one Clive, I like that

Guy, when I asked him for a price he said $25 it might have been for a pair,-don't know, anyway it doesn't matter either way if you can get them there-----Also he said they will work on either polarity which is a bit interesting for leds
Anyway, hope you are all sorted , having an orange winker with the original clear lens sounds good to me
Cheers
willy

So much for my original thought of coming up with a led globe to do this to plug a hole in the market, bit slow, I'll have to come up with something else-----any ideas, I need a project.
William Revit

Guy do bear in mind not all LED lights are equal even if they look the same.

Personally I think the bright white (blueish) illumination doesn't look right on classics with the warm white more in keeping.

Best to keep the lights to full sets within the circuit rather than mixing and LEDs do tend to show up any weaknesses or failings in the rest of the system.
Nigel Atkins

Wanting to upgrade the sidelights/flashers on my IOW Frogeye I followed Clive's advice and phoned classiccarleds.co.uk. I got some very sensible advice, going for the warm white rather than bright and ordered a set without headlights as these were already fine. The set arrived 2 days later and fitting was straightforward. The only problem was that all the flashers came on at once when indicating. I phoned classiccarsleds and was advised that it was probably a slight voltage leakage through the indicator warning light (leds are much more sensitive): the solution to rewire the warning light to the relay. This simple fix solved the problem. The lights are much brighter, and the indicator warning light positively lighthouse-like: no more leaving them on by mistake.
Very impressed by the attitude, service and efficiency of the firm.
Nick
J.N. Williams

I bought my rear frogeye lights/brake lights from them. They are specific to those lights as the fitting is facing down rather than straight like later Spridgets. Was at brighter and much safer I feel.
G Lazarus

Guy - no the LEDs are for the sidelights, the amber bulb is the indicator. I have replaced it now with a silver bulb that flashes amber.

Les
L B Rose

Yes Les, having learnt something I too now have the dual white/amber flashing bulbs under the original clear glass covers at the front. Still not decided whether to wire in the small bulbs in the headlights as additional sidelights/running lights.

This all came about as l was trying to find properly domed headlamp units for my Frog, rather than the commonly available but flatter later style.I had located some, but they had the built in sidelight bulbs which I don't think original cars used. Anyway, I decided to buy them anyway as I can still blank off the small bulb holes if I decide not to use them, now that I have the brighter led bulbs for the front corners.
GuyW

Guy
Just out of interest , could you tell me please what brand name was on your new globes or on the box--
willy
William Revit

Willy, I am away in Scotland for a few days - again- but will check for a brand name when I get back.
GuyW

Willy, I got them from this place:
classiccarleds.co.uk
that Dave Colclough recommended on the MASC Facebook site.
GuyW

Thanks, that's all I need to chase it up
I've just got interested to find out if they're the same globes as here and which direction the supply is going
No big deal just interested
willy
William Revit

They do them for both positive and negative earth systems. They also do a specific flasher unit made for LEDs although they said they also work with most flasher units. I've not wired them in yet to see if my bi-metal strip flasher unit will work though!
GuyW

This thread was discussed between 11/11/2018 and 24/11/2018

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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