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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Moss Motors rear tube shock kit on 1500
Hi all, thought I'd post these pics for the archives. Just finished installing the Moss Motors rear tube shock conversion kit (part # 268-288) which involves some cutting and grinding... The first picture shows a good view of the left-hand shock and the hole required to be made, after installation which took about 5 hours to complete as the instructions were, oh how can I say it, vague on the details for the 1500. second picture shows the area of metal that needs to be removed, right-hand side, in order to place the upper shock mount between the body panels. The hole that holds the bolt for mounting the limiting strap needs to be enlarged for the shock mount bolt to be placed. third picture shows the surprise not mentioned in the directions: the bolt hole has a steel sleeve that needs to be removed. Notice the weld on the outer end of the sleeve which fuses the sleeve to the body panel. This weld needs to be ground down to make room for the shock mount. After you remove the sleeve. The good news about the sleeve is that it is not welded on the other (inner) end, but merely tightly located in another, extra piece of body panel. The bad news is that this extra panel is in the space that will be occupied by the upper shock mount. fourth picture Here you can see the panel the sleeve is fit into. This piece I believe was not considered when the kit was designed. Here's how I dealt with the overall lack of space for the upper shock mount: 1. I ground down the weld on the outer side after removing the sleeve. 2. I spread the panels apart as much as I thought was reasonable. After this there was still insufficient space for the upper mount so I had to alter the upper mount. This only involved grinding. The upper mount bush is sleeved with a steel tube that stands proud of the bush by almost 1/8 inch on each end. By grinding off "excess" the mount then fit into the space "nicely" (rather, I was able to fit it). Be sure to have a bucket of water near your grinder to (frequently) dip the shock mount into, or you could melt the bush! Hope this helps someone in the future. By the way, I've put a few miles on the car since the install and my first impression is the car feels MUCH more under driver control in the turns, less feeling of the car's rear wanting to swing around. The other thing to mention is this kit costs less than a single new lever-type replacement shock, less than a pair of rebuilts. |
Richard 79 1500 |
And the photos are where?? |
Mick - She's off the rotisserie |
Hmm...I uploaded them to the server which claimed to accept them... If they don't show up soon I will post them again I suppose.
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Richard 1979 1500 |
operator error...
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Richard 1979 1500 |
Richard, The BBS limits you to one picture per message. We have now gotten to see the upper mounting with a loverly new strap. What make and model of shock does this kit use? David "shocking news" Lieb |
David Lieb |
OK. there they are.
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Richard 1979 1500 |
pics 3 and 4 reversed. Sorry.
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Richard 1979 1500 |
David: Make and model unknown, stamped "Made in USA" with various numbers embossed. Moss calls them "specially modified", and interestingly, does not offer a replacement. Guess I'll need the kit again if one fails. |
Richard 1979 1500 |
You might try cross-referencing those numbers with Monroe. The special modifications probably consisted of cutting off the shroud around the top half of the shock so it would fit up into the hole and will probably compromise the longevity. If you park it for the winter, you might want to coat the upper shafts with something to avoid corrosion which would destroy the seals. David "too bad they are not adjustable" Lieb |
David Lieb |
I always thought you could put some mini shocks at the rear of the later midget? I tried with a MK I and that did not fit but they told me later cars do accept Mini shocks. So no kit required. Bas |
Bas Timmermans |
Is it just me that does not like the idea of cutting a hole in the rear chassis section - thus exposing the inside of the box section to rain, mud and other evil things as well as weakening the structure? |
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275) |
To be honest I would plate over the holes and simply buy a Frontline's rear tele conversion. |
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve |
I have standard mini rear shocks on the Frog, PO fitted them and I recently replaced them with gas filled versions. They bolt on to the bottom lever arm mount on the axle and through the wheel arch above the axle. The wheel arch has been reinforced, I believe, where the shock goes through. The dampers work well, are cheap to replace, easy to get hold of and the stroke is perfect. I don't know if PO modified the axle end or not, apart from welding in bolts into the existing holes, but if not, it should be a fairly straightforward mod. |
Graham P |
Graham, Do you have pictures? I went that route but from the upper checkstrap mount to the lower but that wasnt the correct distance. Midget 1500's have a higher ride height so that it will fit but I am very curious how things are attached at your car. Bas The Frontline kit for the rear is 200 quid and a pair of mini shocks will cost 40 euro's here:-) |
Bas Timmermans |
Bas, I've fitted telescopics on the back of my frogeye in a similar manner to Grahams car by the sound of it. Dampers I used were Vauxhall Chevette front and the axle was definitely modified in my case to increase downward travel as well as upward. Lower mount shot shows standard chevette dampers which were later replaced with Spax. |
David Billington |
And upper mount.
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David Billington |
I used the spax adjustable shocks as supplied with the kits but mounted them upright fixed to some new brackets welded to the rear rail above the inner wheel arch. The car is a 1500 and I find that with the shocks upright i set them at almost there softest setting. Carl |
C Bintcliffe |
Bas, pics following. 1st is the lower mount,all of these were taken before I cleaned up and fitted new shocks. :) |
Graham P |
The lower mount viewed from outside the spring.
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Graham P |
Upper mount from under the wing.
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Graham P |
Upper mount from inside, showing non standard (I think!) reinforcement.
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Graham P |
Last one. Damper off bottom mount and fully extended showing maximum extension is maybe 1/2" more than check strap length. On full compression of the damper the axle hits the bumpstop, so the damper stroke appears to be just right. |
Graham P |
I forgot to add that the dampers are canted backward slightly, maybe 10 deg, but they cedrtainly seemed to work OK. |
Graham P |
Graham, That looks a good installation and the lower mount looks standard IIRC, it does look to me as though the bump stop has been cut down a bit compared to what I recall of mine. I changed my early rubber bricks for the later softer bump stops from the 1/2 elliptic axles as that gave a less severe handling change when the bump stops came into play. |
David Billington |
Lower mount is indeed the standard fitting point and is original. Piercing the body next to the bumpstop reinforcement is newly made. Thats a difference of 160 quid so I might go that route. I envy the 1500's because they can fit the mini ones instead of the checkstrap without any modifications and within 10 mn each side:-( |
Bas Timmermans |
I am using mini front ones as a direct replacement for the check straps on a 1971 car. They work fine. I think that whether or not they work without bottoming out depends what stage of degradation the rear springs have attained. Guy |
Guy Weller |
Hmm Guy, I have fairly new springs but mine are quarter eliptic. Maybe thats a difference. Bas |
Bas Timmermans |
Guy, The dampers shouldn't bottom before the bump stops come into play regardless of spring sagging unless intended to cope with acting as bump stops and IIRC the mini front suspension has a separate bump stop, also the damper mount has to be able to cope with the additional load. The fact that the rear springs sag will reduce the upward travel and increase downward travel but shouldn't alter the points at which the dampers run out of travel relative to the bump stops. Bas, A problem with the 1/4 elliptic rear suspension regarding fitting telescopic dampers is the shorter distance between the axle damper connection and the upper potential mounts, and that the 1/2 elliptic suspension has the option of changing or inverting the lower damper pick-up, this allows the later suspension more freedom without permanently modifying standard features. I opted to change the upper and lower pick-up so that I could alter the suspension to reduce what I saw as problems in restricted movement and intrusive bump stop behaviour. |
David Billington |
David, I checked the suspension travel without dampers and the mini rear shocks have something over an inch surplus travel. So bottoming or topping out the dampers shouldn't be a problem. I haven't yet hit the bump stops despite some pretty rough side roads! That doesn't mean of course, that it will never happen, just not yet. Also I did remove lowering wedges from under the springs to gain more spring travel. |
Graham P |
Graham, I did some of the checking of my rear suspension with old springs but did later checks with what I understood to be a new pair of some of the last new genuine 15 leaf springs, having removed 2 leaves, I opted for 14 leaf as a good comprimise in my case with fibreglass rear, I still encountered bump stop usage so adapted the later softer stops, this may be a damper weighting issue, I ran mine soft. That being said it seems every car/driver is different and I worked on my car in isolation and set it as I preferred to the extent of adding rear ARB to set the handling to my liking along with 7/8" rear wheel spacers , I had a stiff front ARB as well prior to the rear ARB an all worked well for me. |
David Billington |
True David - and mine don't bottom out before the axle hits the rubber bump stops. The point is that if the springs are slightly flatter than new ones, then less of the overall available damper travel is needed for compression from the "at rest" position, and more is available when in "leap" mode. The problem with the mini fronts is the relatively short travel and getting the fitted length right to give the required travel on both compression and extension. Just a comment to say that they can be made to work on pre-1500 1/2 elliptic sprung cars too. Guy |
Guy Weller |
I managed to find some of the figures for the rear shocks and axle set up. The mini rear shocks have a stroke of 14cms. With axle hanging on the check strap the lower shock mount is 1.5 cm above the eye of fully extended shock, as per the last pic. This gives an effective stroke of 12.5 cms, unfortunately I can't find the measurement from bump stop to inner wing/bump stop reinforcement & haven't got time to measure it, but I would assume that it was less than 12.5cm. Graham |
Graham P |
This thread was discussed between 24/08/2008 and 27/08/2008
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