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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - need help to identify car...

What looks to be a Sprite has come up for sale here, like hens teeth out here so i want to move quick...

The chassis number is HAL 50432, engine replaced by a datsun, just like mine, i'm not worried about that.

I cant find my book i had with this sort of info in it...

Can anyone tell me anything about this car ?
What year, original engine type, diff ratio, etc etc

Thanks

Andy
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

seems to be HAN2/50432, but cant see very well from picture....
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

ok, sorry, getting excited...
HAN8/50432, which makes it a 1964-1966 car according to what i found online...
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Andy,
Sprite Mk3

HAN8-50192 (Feb 65)
HAN8-52666 (Jun 65)

Original Sprite & midget The Restorer’s Guide by Terry Horler –
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1906133336

Remember - buy in haste, regret at leisure (or something like that), I have much experience of not researching before I buy so learn by my mistakes, it's less costly.

more info to follow
Nigel Atkins

engine: 1098c

diff: 4.22:1

more info to follow
Nigel Atkins

semi-elliptic rear springs

body number prefix ABL

wind-up windows with quarterlights

exterior door handles

black crackle dash

combined ignition and starter switch

15½”, six (three double) spoke steering wheel

Original Sprite & Midget The Restorer’s Guide by Terry Horler –
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1906133336



What more do you want to know?
Nigel Atkins

Great thanks Nigel,
This has obviously been messed with, Red dash and a 'modern looking' steering wheel which looks like its off an 80's mini, or perhaps an Ital.
Nissan engine, maybe 5 speed or could be 4 speed, i need to get out and look at it.

I'm not too worried about originality, it looks far more original than my current frankenfrog...

and of course need to garner support from wife ....


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Apparently not moved for 2 years and previously taken to a garage that couldn't fix it......
but de-bumpered and a nice grill...

As long as its not totally rotten underneath shouldnt be too much of a problem... i have a spare one of those engines in my garage...


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Andy,
the photos are a bit blurred to me and I'm no expert (on anything) so bear that in mind with my quick notes on the photos -

dash being body coloured is a quite common change

dash looks to have extras (too blurred to tell what)

door panels customised and no elbow room apertures

I'm not sure about the seats, might be original or not (don't know)

different carpeting

engine bay looks very changed, is that a servo(?), bigger rad, no car battery (or heater of course)

bonnet safety catch missing

different sidelights
Nigel Atkins

some photos, the guy is sending me them over skype... looks to be an unfinished project.
No windscreen wipers.
wiring looks very suspect...
Also thats not the correct carb for the engine, but i have a spare one under my bench


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

seems to be more or less complete. looks like will need a rewire, but i can do that.


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

No wiper motor either. I can't see much Spridget wiring. Is the clutch cable(?).

Can you get him to email you some hi-res digital photos then you can zoom in on them and see a lot more detail.

Photos of both sides and rear and hood would also help.

ETA seats look original except covers of course.
Nigel Atkins

interior door handles?

rad top hose doesn't look a good fit, squeezed itself in

what I thought were extras on the dash might just be missing switch and washer plunger

quarterlight rubber missing
Nigel Atkins

passenger side pedal box blanking plate missing, looks like it was there by the lack of dust, good place for water to get in and spoil the interior panel
Nigel Atkins

Andy. That car originally started out like mine. (The one you rode in). If it's not too bad underneath, I think you could be onto a good thing if you can get it for the right money.
Using the same ingenuity that you have employed on your Frankenfrog you could make a really presentable car. And as you say, they are like hens teeth in your location.
Good luck.
Bernie Higginson

Andy,
as I always put, not even the rust is original on my Midget, and it has a fair few modifications, so I'm just pointing out what very little I notice in the photos not criticising the car or commenting further on it.

You certainly need to see more of the car and any other project changes on it especially if they're unfinished or incomplete.

Good luck, I'm sure if it's suitable and you gain the very necessary support then you'll find it an interesting project.
Nigel Atkins

Andy

It sounds to me that you maybs getting the car at a very sweet price point and your not to conserned about orginality and are willing to make some consessions to put this back on the road

If it where me based on the above converstion i would focas on 2 areas to make a yes or no desision

Rust is #1 if its medicore or more rotted out id walk away... ideally i wouldnt even want to paint it...autobody work will eat your soul and make you watch while it does so...if its just a light rust a minor hole herw and there... thats okay ...just dont make this a 3 year autobody project that gets in the way of your life

Next... front suspenion...if this is worn out this another money pit from no return... if its shoot id want rhe cost of replacement figurwd into the balue of the car...once you open up that pandoras box of pain you dont get to walk away till the whole thing is rwbuilt plus along with the fromt brake system

Those are the 2 areas id draw a line in thw sand and dont budge off ...those 2 areas can make a inexpensive cheep car in to a 5 year ungodly expensive project car

If you do buy it then find out your over your head and its as you say rare wheere your at
..part this puppy out and make a few beer tokens for your effort

Just my thoughts
..
1 Paper

Going to see it on 28th, its 4 hours drive away...
i'll not say what the price is, you would all think me mad....

As there are so few here, the market for spare parts is small also, so not really good to try and part it out.


I'll let you know what its like..
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Take some photos so we can all enjoy ripping into you

"" WHAT is he thinking"" ....haha

Prop
1 Paper

Well i bought it....
Another mongrel to add to my collection, i think i'll call this one frankensprite.

Mk3 sprite, 1965 according to the chassis number.
Imported to Thailand in 1968.

Wind up windows, later style windscreen,semi elliptical rear but with the rear hood attachments like on a frogeye so like a MK2 sprite i assume ?

I suspect foul play on the back section... and definately on the back panel below the boot lid.

Drum brakes front and back.
No hood but a hood frame from a later type hood.

maybe its a very very early MK3 where they stuck drums on it before the stock ran out ?

Has home made sills put on where the front part dosent match with the wheel arch radius.

Floors and suspension mounting area looks original and good.

Missing quarterlight glass but they were in an ebay packet in the boot.

rear shock conversion, not sure which one.
Brake booster, looks like the one Moss sells.

Recent very very bad respray in what seems to be tartan red.

Got it home and stuck it in a corner whilst i finish of some jobs on the frog.....
Trying to restrain myself from lifting the cover...



Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Correct for a MK3 ?


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

shouldnt there be some recess for the number plate ?


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

No, that all seems correct, although the profile of the lower rear wing, behind the wheel, is a bit straight and the curvy bits under the rear lights aren't quite the right shape, but I don't suppose you're after concours.
Dave O'Neill 2

Mk3s all had disc brakes, so the drums have obviously come from something else.
Dave O'Neill 2

So i could swap the drums from the red car with the discs on my frog and make both cars more original.....?

What are the front drums like to drive with ?
i used to have allround drums on many mini1000's and they worked very well....

And if the hood fixings are correct (ive found some videos on youtube which corroborate this) then i could actually buy a new hood from somewhere and it would fit ?!?

oh joy... after having to make eveything from scratch for frankenfrog :-)
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Andy,
well done on buying it.

You're driving the car so you should be able to tell us how the drum brakes compare :)

The hood and frame should be a packaway type so all details and fittings should be available from the usual places (you can get little books that tell you all about the relevant models, can't think what they're called though).

I've always took the view that any paint that remains stuck on a car protecting it is better than no paint.

There should be some chrome hub caps on the wheels but perhaps you might want to add some painted hub caps instead, black, red, orange(?). Or perhaps paint the wheels black and have chrome hub caps or painted hub caps(?).

Get the whole car running well and reliably first and then worry about cosmetics.

The car would be usual over here for the fact that you don't see many (any?) resprayed Tartan Red classics without chrome wire wheels (especially MGBs).

Good luck.

Nigel Atkins

I have some hub caps in poor condition that came with the frog, however I have recently found a very good chrome plating place that will make them like new.

Feeling quite excited now about getting it sorted.

Sadly not driven it yet or even attached battery to see if anything works. Its an abandoned project from a guy who loves old things but isn't a mechanic. He sent it to a garage and they said no parts were available and they couldn't do anything with it.
Lucky for me.....

Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Started to have a look at the hood situation.
the hood frame below came with the car, but according to all the catalogues its wrong for a MKIII sprite.
Note that this has triangular mounting plates with three bushes for mounting to the body.

To me it looks like a later car frame, but thats just based on the moss catalogue.


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

this is what the hood mounting on the car looks like.



Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

this is the hood frame that came with frankenfrog (i was told it was based on a mkiii sprite)

The frame splits in two, and though in poor shape , is recoverable.

This looks exactly like the correct one from the Moss catalogue and fits the new red car perfectly.

So if the 'splits in two and slides into the mounting tubes' frame is the correct one, then what are the mounting holes for on the body ?



Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

The Mk3 Sprite definitely uses the removable frame and it certainly looks like the other frame is the later, folding type with the extensions to the header rail.

Maybe someone tried to fit the folding frame by welding some mountings to the tub?
Dave O'Neill 2

I think Dave O is correct. An attempt to use the later hood frame. The added bracket is too high though and would mean reducing the height of the frame. Maybe that is why the later frame is in bits?

The correct frame is the split one which should be identical to a Frogeye one but parts in the middle. The windscreen looks like the later type what uses over centre latches attached to a header rail. The hood itself will have this header rail attached to the hood material.

Bernie Higginson has a Sprite with this type of hood and always complains about the time it takes to put up. Be prepare to get soaked whenever it rains! It must rain in Thailand?

Rob
MG Moneypit

This thread was discussed between 21/12/2016 and 02/01/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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