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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - New radiator - steel or aluminium?

Good evening gentlemen
November 15 was the last opportunity, due to the insurance, to drive in the little classic for 2018, season beginning again March 15 2019.
Had a lovely drive November 14 and when home, drained the hot oil and gave it a new filter and fresh oil.
I know.... the winter is lonooong and theere's a lot of time to have cozy moments in the garage, but dismantled the cooling system, since I'm to convert to an electric cooling fan.
This revealed why the midget once in a while would leave a few drops of cooling liquid on the garage floor when home after some fun. I have been focused on the hose clips and tightening a little here and there, but it showed up, that there's a little leak in the bottom of the radiator.
Moss has their winter sale going on and there's a discount on the radiators, £100,30 in stead of £118,00 The aluminium radiator is not for my budget, £355,50, the discount price.
Then I found on the bay this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-42mm-MG-Midget-1275-M-T-1967-1974-68-69-70-71-72-73-74-/252981709676
And that's with shipping included.
We are talking cross flow, what do you think about this aluminium radiator?
Jan
Jan Kruber

I can’t see that an aluminium rad is necessary.

If you’re converting to an electric fan, have you considered having your original rad rebuilt and having a fitting put in for a thermo switch?
Dave O'Neill 2

I thought aluminum rads were for weight saving on race cars.

What does "cooling capacity is increased about 40% than standard radiator" mean, if it was 40% more rad coolant capacity that would negate any weight saving and do you need 40% more rad cooling (capacity) on a standard road car?

I'd check all the measurements very carefully - 28mm inlet & outlet sounds odd to me, aren't the hoses 25mm/1" internal diameter?

There again it might be good, and I might be wrong about inlet/outlet size - what's the Feedback like on previous ones sold for Midgets?
Nigel Atkins

Jan,
if you're thinking of fitting an electric fan then a sucking fan fitted engine side of the rad is better and being behind it won't collect and hold debris on the fan body and mounting like the front fitting blowing fan (guess how I know).

It was too late that I saw if you fit the 1500 cowling it can give half an inch IIRC to raise rad allowing a bigger fan to be fitted. Proper details are in the Archive.
Nigel Atkins

Dave,
considering having an old radiator and the high hourly ratings in Denmark, I doubt it will be profitable to have a repair done, compared to buying a new one.
Allright, he old radiator may have be rapaired, but it's still quite old, when and where will the next leak occur?
And,
the workshop fee will be like 1 to 2 hours, the same as the price of 1/2 to 1/1 new Moss steel radiator.
Jan Kruber

I run my 140bhp K series car on an uprated 3 core copper rad with original end tanks. I ran the 120bhp 1400 on the standard rad and it was fine, even coping with the stick I gave it. Only replaced with a 3 core because it got a little hole in it, and the temperature would start to climb slightly on track days in the summer.

Personally, I't stick with a copper one.
Rob Armstrong

Nigel
I ordered the suction slimline Revotec promoted by Moss, but it wasn't that slim as I thought. Without having fitted it yet, I messured and figured out that I couldnn't squeeze it in between the rad. and the pulley wheel, so I returned it and got a blower ....ehhh.... sorry if anybody were insulted, English is not my mother language........ but google translate is my friend........and BBS off course :-)
Jan Kruber

Rob
so the simple answer to a tricky question is: buy the Moss cross flow "stock" radiator now during the winter saLe? And I heard you, copper, no steele here.......
No benefits in aluminium, they are only made because it's possible ?
Jan
Jan Kruber

Aluminium is lighter, and also very much cheaper as a base material. But it won't transfer heat as well as a copper one; hence why they are usually a bit thicker/bigger.

If it helps, my fan sits in front of the radiator. In your position I'd buy the reduced Moss one (which is what I did for the radiator I got before the 3 core)
Rob Armstrong

Jan,
to be fair to Moss (although I don't know why I should be as they weren't fair to me) they show the Revotec kit for the crossflow rad, which includes a 9" blowing fan to be fitted in front of the rad, as you've found Rovotec slimline fans are not slim enough to fit behind the rad. -
https://www.revotec.com/acatalog/9%20(225mm)%20SuckerBlowing%20TechSpec%20SLIM.pdf
- (you'll need to cut & paste all of this address, link wont work)

By the way, if you're doing a thorough cleaning then I recently discovered I'd made what should have been a glaring omission, as I don't keep email addresses I can't send you update but you can add it in or email me. For emptying (and cleaning) expansion tank -
- siphon out the coolant and clean the inside of the expansion tank – remember to half fill it with coolant and to replace the pressure cap *before* refilling the rest of the system


Nigel Atkins

I fitted an alloy rad to my road/race car earlier this year. It had been fine for years with the standard Crossflow rad, in fact it ran a little cool mostly. But when I started racing instead of hillclimbing it was a bit borderline so I got one of the cheap alloy ones on eBay.

All I can say is that it fits, seems very well made, is lighter and the car runs cooler. My car has a home made rad cowl built to accept a std rad and the new one fitted fine. The dimensions were almost exactly the same. I run a Revotec fan controller in the top hose to a Kenlowe fan mounted in front of the rad using the usual mounts that push through the core.

I'm not really advising either way but just letting you know that the cheap alloy ones (I think mine came from Holland) are very good for the money. A friend of mine has the vertical flow one as well and seems very happy with it.
John Payne

Just fitted:


John Payne

Looks delicious John, I chose and ordered the aluminium, the one in the link above, from Holland too actually.
I have allready have the 9" Revotec to mount in the front of the radiator and a thermostat kit and will insert the thermostat in the upper tube as you did.
I will install an override switch under the dash, just in case......
Jan Kruber

Yes, I'm sure they are all the same radiators, just different suppliers maybe.

I first fitted a Revorec controller about 12 years ago and they are very good, really easy to fit and adjust. Having said that mine failed about 3 years ago and the fan was permanently on - at least it failed the right way! Anyway I've replaced it and all is good again.
John Payne

John,
as I discovered, after I'd replaced the Revotec electronic fan controller, the failure might just have been the relay rather than the controller. With mine once the fan had switched on it wouldn't go off until the ignition was switched off and the coolant was below the contoller's switch on temperature.
Nigel Atkins

I'm fairly sure it was the controller, it started by coming on earlier and earlier and I kept re adjusting it. After a few months like that it got to the point when it was on constantly and had run out of adjustment. But I replaced both at the same time so there is a chance it could have been high resistance in the relay - I'll definitely check that first if it happens again, thanks.
John Payne

It was suggested to me *after* (of course) I fitted the replacements and had thrown away the previous relay so probably best I wasn't able to check. :)
Nigel Atkins

I have a aloy rad in my (K)Midget and its the 2nd one.
First one was poorly made in Brittain, the present one was propermade in Brittain.
But I have to replace it as it has corroded and formed leaks.
By occasionaly driving in winterconditions over the years salt has done evil to the aloy.
I should have washed/rinsed it after use in snowy/salty conditions and after about 10 years its ready for replacement.
Modern cars have alloy too but when run as a daily theyre rad is being washed by rain ect.

Having had enough good talks with a radiatorbuilder in Holland im now convinced to go copper again as it "cools" better at lower/normal/slow traffic speeds then aloy.
Bennefit of aloy, beside a possible weight advantage is that it cools better at high speeds.

On photo: first poorly made rad versus series 1 Jag xj6 rad
The Jag one didnt fit the midget... :)



A de Best

While copper does indeed conduct better than alloy, it also corrodes with the heat, so needs painting to protect it. I suspect the paint reduces the pearl conductivity.
Paul Walbran

I received the radiator yesterday. It is a GPI Racing part and I'm very impressed, it's beautifully made, at least the impression by looking at it. It fits neatly in the cowling. It's very light, 2Kg, must be reason racers like it.
I don't know where it's made.
In my ownership corrosion by salt isn't an issue, I don't drive in the winter
Jan Kruber

This thread was discussed between 17/11/2018 and 23/11/2018

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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