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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - New steering rack. Who from? 2022.

Looks like I need a new steering rack for my '66 Sprite.

Steering column spigot pulls in an out of rack body. (Not all the way out, and yes it is the spigot, the pinch bolt is tight).

Has anyone bought one recently?

Who from?

Or is it better rebuilt? If so, by who?

Cheers.
anamnesis

Mine was rebuilt by Kiley-Clinton Engineering https://steering-racks.co.uk/ - I decided to have it rebuilt rather than buy a new one of unknown quality (and it meant I could support a UK engineering business).

That was in Jan 2018 and it cost £104.40 inc VAT and delivery. I seem to recall turnaround was very quick (a few days?). The price probably depends on the condition and how many components they need to change, and they won't know that for sure until they have it apart.
Jonathan Severn

I bought a new one in 2010 made in argentina but didnt use it untill 2 years ago replacing the original one.
It was disastrous, the steering was as heavy as opening a big safedoor.
Couldnt get it work anymore easy so tossed it out and also had one reconditioned by Kiley-Clinton.
Its in now but still need some fine adjustment
A de Best

I had one done by power steering services based in SE10. Despite the name they seem to have stocks of most racks.
Bob Beaumont

Looks almost the same from the outside





A de Best

Thanks chaps. I'll give those two companies a ring.

Before I send it off though, I'll see if I can play with the shims, and see why it has so much endfloat on the pinion.



anamnesis

I bought a new one from Rimmers (which I think will be one of the Argentinian ones) for my Mk1 midget about 3 years ago and it is spot on. It was a bit tight to start with but it seems fine after a few miles.

I’ve just bought another one for my Sprite (also new from Rimmers) but I’m a bit worried it might ruin the way it drives on track. As it is now the steering is super light and I don’t really like the idea of having tight steering for the first few races of the year. I’m going to have to do something though as the current rack has a lot of play in it.

The new ones don’t have grease or oil points by the way, sealed from the factory. Though obviously taking the gaiters off would allow re oiling.
John Payne

The Argentinian one Arie had is the Triumph type, I have the same, anam will want the earlier Minor type.

My Argentinian (Triumph type) was stiff at the start but soon loosened up with use on the car, I checked before I bought the rack and after about the stiffness, probably all in the Archives here.

I have weak arms and shoulders, perhaps Arie's are weaker still, if so could always use the power steering option under the right foot. 😄

Has been fine - except the rubber (Triumph type) gaiters that came with it IIRC only lasted about 6 months of light use over winter and the generic one-sized fits-all replacement gaiters wont and even fitting the correct Triumph gaiters is a PITA requiring heat. The replacement gaiters lasted 63 months and the next set 50 months.

So the Argentinian rack has been on 10 and a half years now and still fine (kiss of death putting that of course).
Nigel Atkins

Are only the later racks made in Argentina then?
anamnesis

Mine are both early racks anam. I’m not 100% they are Argentinian, Rimmers use Moss for most of their supplies so they might know. They have a slightly different appearance to the original but nothing major. I will have a look at my new one tomorrow (still in its bag) and see if I can see a ‘Made in Argy Bargy’ sticker!
John Payne

Ok thanks John.

Maybe the Falklands could make 'em. 🤣

Don't cry for me la la la. Lol
anamnesis

I got mine from your mate out Sussex way, IIRC he said at the time that he'd had one fitted to his car for two years with no issues and after it was fitted and I asked about the stiffness he said it'd soon go with road use and it did.

I've no idea if the earlier ones are made in Argentina or if the later ones still come from there.

I remember Dave O'Neill saying the earlier ones were upside down (or inside out, forget the details) to the Minor so perhaps an enterprising engineering type could look at sourcing from Minor suppliers at possibly low retail price - but you'd have to check as I'm not sure what can or can't be done.

Nigel Atkins

An LHD minor rack fits the the pre triumph rack Spridget. I have a S/H frogeye rack in the shed which needs a clean up and gaiters etc. Seems ok. Had it for donkeys years
Bob Beaumont

I bought a LHD Morris Minor rack from Andrew Eggleston and saved about £25 on most other suppliers. I believe it was Argentinian manufacture and worked out very well.
Rob
MG Moneypit

Rob,

I checked him earlier and he is currently showing not currently available on RHD and LHD MM racks. Nice bloke he lives just round the corner from me.
David Billington

Dug my new rack out of the tip that is my garage. Definitely Argentinian and I paid £134 for it late last year - they had a sale on at Rimmers.
John Payne

Photos:





John Payne

I replaced my '65 Sprite's rack with an Argentinian one from Moss about 4 years and 6,000 miles ago. Initially a bit stiff, but OK now. I pumped some oil into it via the gaiter. I just fitted a new track rod end to it last week.
b higginson

Latest instalment. Fitted the new rack today, all going fairly well, had to file the mounting points a bit as they were a little bigger than the clamps, all connected up, didn’t feel too tight but then nightmare, it virtually seized up near full right lock!!
At first I thought it was something trapped, or my modified column was fouling something. But after disconnecting the column it was still there, horrible graunchy tight spot near full lock.
So looks like it will be removed and back to Rimmers on Monday. Luckily I’ve still got the receipt from last year and Rimmers is only 10 minutes away.

So at the moment I’ve got the old rack in bits, along with another old one from the shed, to try and make a good one in case I don’t want to risk another dodgy one.

Bloody Argies, still trying to kill us 40 years on.
John Payne

Cheers John.

Doesn't inspire confidence in me buying a new one then. I think I'll go for the rebuild option from Kiley-Clinton Engineering.

anamnesis

I have used the Staco/Lacum Argentine replacement racks in both the Midget and the B. 100,000 miles on, both are still tight without any play. They are lighter weight than the originals and require no lubrication. I have been impressed by the durability.
Glenn Mallory

Finally looking at my rack. Just removing it. Decided to ring around.

Nightmare contacting the two rack reconditioners below.

No 'technicians' in till monday said steering services. The woman who answered the phone, sounded 12 years old, didn't seem to know what a manual rack is, and said she couldn't look it up, because she was working 'remotely'. The word working, obviously meaningless.

Kiley clinton don't even answer the phone.

Several others I rang, pretty much the same, nobody 'technical', in till next week, and couldn't find anything on database for a Sprite or Midget.

'Kin 'opeless. No wonder we have a productivity problem. No b'stards working.

Finally got through to these blokes. 130 quid plus vat, collect/rebuild/return, inclusive. Seems TOO cheap.

Anybody heard of them?

http://www.autosteerdirect.co.uk/about.html




anamnesis

Never heard of them!Seems too cheap given its being collected and delivered to Chester. Did you try power steering services in Greenwich? 020 8853 3343
Bob Beaumont

Yep tried them Bob. Nobody intelligent home today. Lol. I have to try on monday and see if a 'technician' is in.

Sent you an email about the frog rack you mentioned back in March.

anamnesis

Have now taken my rack out and apart.

I was expecting a horror story of complication and wear. It's the opposite. It's a simple device really, and I can see what's causing my lateral free play. The pinion teeth are worn a tad. Not much though.

I can though see why I had endfloat on the column. That's pinion endfloat. It needs deshimming, but can the shims be got?

The rack though looks near perfect. Looks like bluing in the middle. Is that heat treated?









anamnesis

Anam,

It's quite common for the rack to only be hardened in the centre as that's where it spends the vast majority of its working life. Some years back I had my rack body machined for a replaceable bush and an oil seal, I also had the lower pinion bronze piece machined for a bush, I doubt I'll have to replace them though. I ended up making a good rack out of 2, the recon rack had what looked to be a new rack but the pinion had obviously been badly rusted at some point judging from the pitting but the other rack had a good pinion so I married all the good parts and was good to go.
David Billington

Thanks David.

Something else I've just noticed.

My Sprite has the pinion under the rack to engage the teeth, with the dampers on both ends on top, to preload the smooth face.

But the books, Haynes, BMC, and my old Sprite parts book, plus Moss diagrams, show the pinion on top above the rack to engage the teeth, and the dampers on top too, also bearing down on the teeth at the column/pinion end. Clearly wrong on the dampers which should be underneath.

So what's original? Rack teeth up or down?

And, silly question maybe, as it's supposed to be filled with oil, how does the oil stay in? There's no oil seal or gasket under the pinion end cap/bearing.

Edit.
This was a replacement rack many moons ago, can't remember quite how many, or where it came from, but it was greased, not oil.






anamnesis

Anam,

Your installation is correct, if you think about it it has to be that way. The illustration is probably from the Morris Minor as that rack is fitted the other way up as it's behind the axle.
David Billington

Ah yes. I see. It's shown upside down. It's LHD rack, for a minor, which mounts *behind*, not in front of the stub axle. And they got the dampers on the wrong side.

Or is it? If that was up the other way, and mounted behind the axle, the steering wheel would turn left, when you wanted to turn right wouldn't it?

I've never pulled a rack apart before, so I have never paid close attention to that drawing.

That drawing is in ALL publications, haynes, bmc, moss, rimmers, etc. All wrong it seems to me, and nobody ever mentions it. Ah spares have flipped it. They show it as a LHD rack for a Sprite. Which is still wrong, isn't it?

I wonder if this has confused people over the years when attempting to rebuild their own rack.



anamnesis

As that illustration is, the car would go left when you turn the wheel to go right.
GuyW

And the damper plunger at the pinion end would dig into the teeth and lock the rack.

But what amazes me most, is that in all these years, and across all the publications, nobody other than me, has mentioned that the illustration is wrong, and in more than one aspect, -- assuming they even noticed it, which surely someone MUST have done before me.

anamnesis

I think the AH Spares drawing is correct in that it appears to show the pinion beneath the rack bar. It does show the rack bar the wrong way up, but that may just be so that you can see the rack teeth, as you wouldn't see anything if it was the other way up.
Dave O'Neill 2

Yep then it would work correctly.

But I think you're being generous.

The BMC MGB w/s manual gets it right, and shows the edge of the rack, which shows the teeth as they should be.

anamnesis

No, I think Dave is right. Drawing has been adapted by adding the teeth to the rack, that's all.
My WSM for the MK 1 Sprite doesn't illustrate it.
The WSM for later models (facsimile copy) has an exploded "Steering Gear Components" with the rack teeth on the top and pinion underneath, which wouldn't work. I think it's just to clarify that piece is the rack. It's a RHD illustration.
And a few pages on has another for MK 111 cars onwards and teeth on the bottom. Plus various detailed section drawings with rack the correct way with teeth on the bottom
GuyW

Sorry for shadow across that


GuyW

You're being generous too Guy.

An exploded diagram in a workshop manual, is meant to be a working representation. And the arrow with the number 2 alongside it, says in the notes that it's the rack. Making the drawing functionally innacurate wasn't required.

It's a crap illustration. All it needed was to show serrations on the lower side of the rack, just as is done in the bmc w/s mgb manual. Which Moss have also used. Item 51.

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/mg/mgb-c-v8/steering-suspension/steering/steering-rack-mgb-mgb-gt-1962-80.html






anamnesis

And it's right in the MGA drawings, using the same method of showing the rack and teeth. Item 3.

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/mg/mga/steering-suspension/steering/steering-mga-1955-62.html





anamnesis

I’m known for my generosity 🤣
Dave O'Neill 2

This thread was discussed between 29/03/2022 and 27/11/2022

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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