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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Oil filter

What's the trick for fitting a traditional style filter ( not a spin on one). First attempt resulted in a sizeable oil slick. But at least the engine started!

Filter came with a thick and a thin oil ring. First attempt was with the thick one, but maybe that was what was wrong?
GuyW

Think this applies to MGA? and MGB? also, there were different makes of filter housings, different seals, not sure about if the other fittings and bolts varied between the two.

You *may* I don't really know, need to and/or space out or change the seal at the bolt head end of the filter housing.

Initiative and any parts that make it oil tight will be correct for the non-purist.

As you can probably guess I soon switched mine to spin-on.
Nigel Atkins

Its definitely leaking around the oil seal ring at the top. Fast! The bolt head at the bottom seems to be sealing ok, but I can see that an extra spacer there would increase the seal compression at the top too.

Mine is a Purolater angled version. Maybe it needs the skinny oil ring, not the fat one!
GuyW

Maybe too obvious but is there any of the old seal still remaining in the filter housing?
Jeremy MkIII

PUROLATER - 12A1591

A quick web look suggests this *might* be the thicker seal.

ETA: do you have to line up any apertures?

You could try looking on MGA or MGB sections as I'm sure someone would know and there was something on this recently - or what about Barney Gaylord's very comprehensive MGA site.

Nigel Atkins

Ive tried it twice with the thicker seal - leaked both times. I cannot see any dirt or debris and no alignment marks.
GuyW

ETA: yes, I think I'd try the thinner one

Problem is confirming if different part numbers are actually for the same part.

If you have the seal you could compare it with the dimensions -
OD = 3.16 in
ID = 2.90 in
Radial Width = 0.130 in
Thickness = 0.150 in
Nigel Atkins

I use the purolator filter system on my 1098, this is the vertically positioned filter housing.

This uses the thin O ring seal, and it is leak free in use.

I don’t know if this is exactly the same assembly as yours but I’d try the thin seal if I were you Guy.
Philip Sellen

Did you get those from the mga guru site? Just checked there. It says to discard the thinner seal. My fatter one measures at 0.128 x 0.110 so less depth than the mga quoted ones.
GuyW

Thanks Phillip. Mine is a Purolator, but angled backwards though that is achieved by the adaptor to the block,so the head should be the same as yours.

Looking at the groove that the seal fits into it is quite narrow and deep so maybe the thinner seal is designed to push right in there, rather than sit on the surface.
GuyW

Guy,
yes I did get the sizes from Barney Gaylord's site but then decided to do a 180 and consider the thinner seal for the Spridgets as the MGA/B/C/others might be different.

Of course Barney's site only relates to the MGA which is more related to the MGB but sometimes if you can identify the parts to a source it can sometimes rule them in or out with your use.

Having helped a mate with finding which spin-on filters would fit the a-series engine he has I know how difficult it is pinning down the correct information with different part numbers and copied errors and omissions in cross-referencing databases.

Here I was too much haste.
Nigel Atkins

I was only checking because if you got it from somewhere else, it might have independently confirmed the dimensions. Unless of course the other site had in turn copied it!

I am now on to my 4th attempt, fitted and will test it after tea. Glad I am using a basic cheap oil. Quite a lot goes to lubricating the garage floor each time!
GuyW

Guy,
see this MGExp thread, particularly the last post, and see if it applies to your car and previous thoughts.

http://www.mgexp.com/forum/mg-midget-forum.3/quick-request-oil-filter-sealing-rings.3110767/

(Also I copied and pasted the wrong spelling.)

Nigel Atkins

IIRC I only ever used the thin seal on the angled filter (long time ago now as I prefer the spin on) I have a couple of Unipart filters and they only have a thin seal in the box!!
Bob Beaumont

That last attempt seems to have worked. I was trying to use the fatter one as the groove looked quite wide and I thought more rubber for the canister edge to meet up with would be a good thing. It wasn't. What I hadn't spotted (upside down, gloomy and too close for my eyes) is that the slot it fits into is tapered at first, then narrows to a square section. Bit like a capital R, with a narrow box in place of the loop part of the letter.

Fixed, except it isn't the only leak of course!
GuyW

Well done. I didn't replace the seal every time I remewed the filter as it avoided more oil spill!
Bob Beaumont

I believe it takes the thin o ring as you have done, the o ring goes right down(up) in the groove and the canister also enters the groove to keep it lined up properly
When fitting them instead of just screwing the bolt up, i tend to twist/push the canister in as far home as I can get it and hold it there while screwing the bolt in finger tight ,then tighten it up
works for me
willy
William Revit

Willy thats a pretty spot on description of how I eventually did it!
I made more of a task of this than I should have, but its the first that I have done for a very long time that wasn't a modern spin on type and I have never ever had a problem with those.

I now just have a slight weep at the joint between the adapter piece and the block. Paper gasket there I think, though maybe an 0 ring.

Apart from the oil everywhere, it was good to hear the engine running in this car for the first time in nearly 40 years! Sounded OK but was spitting back and idling too fast. Timing and carbs need adjusting but one cannot do that when the oil is pouring out underneath!
GuyW

Guy

I had a similar weep from that joint. its a thick fibre type gasket. (culminated one day in the gasket letting go and oil nicely lubricating the inside of the bonnet!) I found access to the set screws that hold it to the block difficult and I could not get enough torque on them. I changed them to socket headed screws and the problem went away.
Bob Beaumont

For one-off gaskets like that I would often make my own from suitable unglazed brown paper. But if that one is supposed to be the thicker fibre type (pink stuff?) thats not so easy. I have never found a readily available decent material to duplicate that stuff.
GuyW

Yes its the 'pink' gasket used in that location. Given the pressure, not sure if a paper gasket will be enough
Bob Beaumont

Guy, congratulations on starting the engine! I almost long for that moment but a bit of bodywork to do yet.
Bill Bretherton

Moss one illustrated just looks like thin paper.
Mimispares do one listed as "high performance modern materials" but says its for spin on filter mounting so I am not sure if that would fit.
GuyW

Wow those gaskets look like they been cut by forced child-labour.

I've had good and quick service for gaskets from this supplier, same £1 price but also inc P&P and these look a bit better (finished at least). - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182181229732

Pity I wasn't able to find the MGExp thread sooner for your thin seal requirement as the chap had the same but took him 3 years to find out, in case you missed it before, see the last post (15) on here. -
http://www.mgexp.com/forum/mg-midget-forum.3/quick-request-oil-filter-sealing-rings.3110767/
Nigel Atkins

That one looks a bit better Nigel, and a free postage, £1 is actually a better price than Moss et al.
Sorry I didn't acknowledge your link to the mgexperience web site. I had already fitted it by then, but it was a useful read anyway.
GuyW

I think its the same gasket. When I rebuilt my 1275 earlier this year it had the two gaskets either side of the adaptor plate in the gasket kit.
Bob Beaumont

Guy,
yes I thought it looked better but you could ask to check, as I put I found the service very good.

No problem about the post, I just wished I'd found it sooner as I wasn't certain on the thicker seal but couldn't at the time find any proof for the thinner seal but there was something nagging at the back of my mind - but I could have mixed the two up anyway.

Bob,
that gasket goes on both sides of the adapter according to Moss, and I think others.

Nigel Atkins

This might be a bit drifty, for which I apologise in advance.
Best gasket paper ever...
If you know a yachtie type person cadge some old redundant sea-charts from him. Or her.
If offered a choice between Admiralty and Imray charts take the Imrays. They're designed to be used in the open cockpit of a yacht in all weathers. They're nearly indestructible.
I have a drawer full if you want some.
Chart paper and Hylomar is a fab combo.
As you were...

:-)

(Soz - I'm 63 today and I've already started on the gin haha).
Greybeard

happy birthday!
Bob Beaumont

Cheers Bob.
🍺🍺🤑
It's been a great day. Day off spent in the workshop. All my chisels and plane irons are now super sharp and I made myself a centre finder. Only to discover I already had one I'd forgotten about.
Hey ho...
Age is a terrible thing ain't it?
Greybeard

Cheers.

I missed the today bit until I saw Bob's post.

Shouldn't you be on the Rum?

Which anniversary of that birthday is this?

Tthat might test the strength of the gin, some are only 20%. :)

Happy birthday to you!
Nigel Atkins

Happy Birthday Greybeard--Hope you had a nice relaxing day
Cheers (and cheers)
willy
William Revit

Still a youngster Grey! All the best.
Bill Bretherton

from my experience with 948 Morris minor and 1098 A40 and a few other A series engines I used to service if the filter does not leak leave the top O ring alone.
On one car it took several attempts to stop a new O ring leaking. Thank goodness my 1275 Midget has a spin on.

Mike
M J Pearson

Guy,

Only just noticed the gasket 'scull shape' - Moss seem to only have the incorrect shapes ones ?

If you are not sorted I seem to have a couple spare in numerous gasket sets ! red oroiginal ones.

R.

richard b

You have to be careful when referring to spin-on filters.

There were two different housings - the early Purolator type and the later thin-flange variety.

The Purolator one looks almost identical to the canister type and uses the same gasket, but the thin-flange one uses a completely different gasket.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave,

I just put the part number Nigel linked to (88G402 early pre spin on type)into Moss and got a different shape gasket - but it did add a 'B' after i.e 88g402B - no 88G402 ?

R.
richard b

This is what Moss are showing for the later thin-flange filter head.

The part number they give is a late r Unipart one - GUG705553GM, although it used to be 2Axxxx, or something.


Dave O'Neill 2

Apologies, perhaps I put up the wong filter, I've no idea about these gaskets but noticed the difference in shapes, leaving it to those that know to say if the shape matters, I might have misunderstood which related to the earlier type but the GUG705553GM gasket seemed to me to relate to later engines.

Someone knew the coding Moss use on their part numbers (was it you Dave?) but I don't know it. As Rich put Moss had a 'B' on the part number but I've no idea what it means.

Mini Spares has -
"GUG705553GM
GASKET OIL FILTER HEAD LATE GENUINE
Block to filter head gasket when spin on type filter is used (except billet types which use 88G402). The black side goes against the engine and the red against the filter. This also has a sealant strip on it to help stop leaks." (first photo)

"88G402
OIL FILTER HEAD GASKET (EARLY - PRE SPIN-ON FILTER)
Gasket for the early element type filter head. See GFE103 for filter and 12A1726 for complete filter, this gasket also fits some very early spin on filter types (37H7078). (second photo).






Nigel Atkins

Rich,
Guy has replied to your offer on the 'oil leak' thread by mistake.
Nigel Atkins

I don't know what the 'B' means on Moss part numbers. I know that a 'Z' refers to a cheaper pattern part.

Here are the two filter heads for comparison.

As you can see, the early (Purolator) could make do with the circular gasket, as the actual sealing face is circular.





Dave O'Neill 2

Well I have learnt somethings. Firstly the D shaped gaskets do fit in place of the round ones against the block, but not at the joint between the extension piece that angles the filter, and the early Purolater filter head.

Those UNC (?) bolts that hold it to the block are very, very awkward! They take a 9/16" spanner, but not a ring or socket and there isnt clearance to turn an open ended even if you can angle the head to fit. I now have another "special" single purpose tool - cut down old spanner.

I also now know that if I assemble these parts just finger tight and without gaskets,to check that they all fit, and then leave it for 6 months to ensure memory fade, they will then leak oil when the engine is eventually started up.
GuyW

guy

I don't think I ever used the round gasket as I didn't think it was up to the job! the D shaped ones were my preference.

Its those UNC bolts I replaced with cap headed screws so I could get a decent torque on them. Mind you the oil drenching the bonnet had in the late 70's did mean there was no seam rot when it was restored in 2009!!!
Bob Beaumont

Yes, as I was struggling with my cut down spanner I was thinking these must be the ones Bob replaced with socket screws. Only of course I didn't have any with a UNC thread. Never mind, they are in now, and tight.

Its the outer joint that I think needs the oval gasket - my set up uses the adapter piece that cants the oil filter backwards at a rakish angle. Supposedly, to clear the chassis rail but I think it's really to streamline the engine.

When I looked at spin on adapters that others seem to approve of, and saw the price at Moss, (£86) I decided traditional was best. But I have found one for a mini where I got the D gaskets from (good quality). At £19.95 I am tempted! It looks like it would fit.



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mini-Oil-Filter-Head-Housing-Spin-On-Type-INC-Gasket-12A2032-TAM2097/184375031445?

GuyW

Guy,
as Minimine Ltd actually work on Minis they may have fitted the adapter to theirs or customers cars so may know the build quality and reliability of the adapters and of course as they sell them they will know of any returns to them from selling without fitting.

Like others here I often find parts sold by Mini suppliers to be at lower prices, and sometimes better quality, than MG parts suppliers.

And like many companies, big and small, their website isn't necessarily the best in all respects but as contact details, or asked the question on/through the eBay item.

http://www.minimine.co.uk/
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, I could check but it does say it fits all A series engines.
GuyW

I was thinking of quality at price.
Nigel Atkins

Oh, sorry.
They are hardly likely to say it is rubbish if they are selling it!
GuyW

No Guy, hopefully if it was rubbish they wouldn't be selling it, but we all know some parts sold by some aren't always good quality, and some in business are more honest than others.

It certainly *looks like it might be better* than the one Moss offer, to be fair Moss photos do show how rough some of their parts are. - http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/head-oil-filter-replacement-tam2097.html

But also, I resisted putting this before, the Ebay description was more conditional than yours - "..to suit all A-series engines that use the spin on type oil filter". This suggests to me there may be difference in what's around it or different fittings/fixings to it, which I'm sure you'd find in one of your boxes of bits but best to be prepared before carrying out the conversion.

Also begs the question of wots the point of the £86 conversion kit if you can bolt on a £20 item unless all the other bits add up to more than £66, or unavailable, or not sold by Moss. It can't be about keeping an original appearance.

You'll sort it all I sure, do a fitting mock up. :)
Nigel Atkins

Yep, I would definitely do a trial fit without the gasket.


The main doubt would be whether the feed pipe aligns with the connection point and matches the gland fitment. It looks right, but may not be. But for that money it's worth a chance and there's always the distance selling regulations to fall back on if it's wrong.
GuyW

It's good to hear that even the best make silly mistakes. :)

I'm sure you could make up a supply pipe but finding out and getting the right end fittings can sometimes be 'fun' - or fun! for some.

Whoops, now the bonnet doesn't shut or dinks, never mind a bonnet bulge can be constructed, or lower the engine, anything to get the adapter to fit. :)
Nigel Atkins

not to put a damper on proceedings but does the angled connector mean the feed pipe is a different length/shape to the non angled version filter head as sold by Minimime? I use a standard midget spin on filter head and it clears the chassis rail comfortably. I have always had an oil cooler so the feed pipe issue did not arise.
Bob Beaumont

Bob, this is where Guy's old cardboard box of pipes, hoses, fittings, washers and seals come in.
Nigel Atkins

I have both types of pipe Bob, one for the angled purolater head and one for the standard vertical alignment one. But both are for cartridge paper filters so they may not suit the spin on filter head. There's one way of finding out.
GuyW

I think adding two, three or four adapters might get you there - or you might just be jammy. :)
Nigel Atkins

Guy

When I had BL Minis (cars and vans) with a paper cartridge oil filter, I kept a small screwdriver for going carefully into the groove to remove the old rubber seal in the filter adapter housing (and on some 'new' cars - short MoT rust bucket bangers - on the first Nigel style service in acquisition I have on occasion found two old seals!).

For those with deep pockets or a generous benefactor there is a custom oil filter housing with a larger seal to the block:
https://swiftune.com/parts-shop/ancillaries.html

Cheers
Mike

PS happy birthday last week Grey!
M Wood

Guy - you'll notice the Minimine one has a thin flange and bolts to the block with very short bolts. Under high stress conditions and a lot of vibration they have been known to fracture across the flange. The genuine Midget spin-on type still uses long bolts and there is far more meat to the whole casting. I've got a spare one and normally Dave O'Neill has some too.
David Smith

Thanks David. For now I have decided to stick with the paper cartridge type that I already have. This us likely to be a fairly low mileage car so I dont anticipate more than a couple of oil changes a year anyway, if that.
GuyW

This thread was discussed between 02/08/2020 and 12/08/2020

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.