MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Panhard rod?

Chaps

For normal driving with the occassional spirited sprint around the twisty bits, is a Panhard rod or similar worth fitting? If so, from whom? and anything particular to watch out for when fitting?
M Ogden

It depends on your definition of 'spirited'

A Panhrod may improve the handling and thus does more than just provide lateral location.

It ABSOLUTELY has to be ABSOLUTELY LEVEL.

There isn't a Spridget book with this stuff in, yet, but maybe next year there might be.
Daniel Stapleton

Im a huge fan of pan hardrods

mine came feom winners circle ... its a full race type so was designed for lowered race cars i had to remake the mount for standard hieth ride ... its one of my favorite mods

that said... i think you need aftermarket solid wheels im not sure there are any benifits with a 3 part welded wheel or spokes
prop

I would say its one of the best modifications you can do to the handling for the money. It really does transform the car and helps it feel more stable in bends.

I'd recommend buying one instead of fabricating your own as they are relatively cheap, nice and light and easy to fit. I got mine from Peter May.

Fitting wise unfortunately you have to drill the shell but only three small holes in the boot floor. It's quite a tight fit with regard to the exhaust and fuel tank but not too bad. You also need access to a welder to weld the axle end bracket to the lower U bolt plate. The rod has to be level when the car is on the ground.
john payne

I fitted a second hand mumford link, ex frontline and ex other car that went 6-link rear.

Without it, I'd have torn the sides out of my tyres in pretty short order. It's made a very big difference to mid corner feel and reducing sloshiness at the back
Rob Armstrong

It has to be both parrell to the ground and to the axle housing

so actually 2 axis (vertical and horizontial)
prop

The Peter May item is one of the best things that I bougt for my 1/4 eliptic. For road use cover the ball joints with rubber

Flip


Flip Brühl

I would say fit one as part of a planned upgrade plan.
New bushes all round and a front arb.
Make sure body sits level and everything as it should be.
Then look at pan hard rod.

I fitted one about a year ago at the same time as fitting new rear shocks.
I'm happy with it now but at the time , because I went from an over stiff rear that skittered about to something that worked properly ,I thought I was getting under steer.

I have now fitted neg camber trunnions also , still finding my feet as to how hard I can push it, but let's say I've had people refuse to get back in the car 😉
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

any suggestions as to where to source new dampers please? I did a search, but nothing came up.
Andy Collins

I agree with Andy. Make sure the existing set up is working as it should before upgrading. I found for example changing the ARB from 9/16 to 5/8 made a really big improvement and the car suits my driving style now.
Bob Beaumont

Bob - Indeed. I changed the ARB bushes but not the bar itself, and is polybushing recommended here? Also is 5/8 ARB readily available for the midget? Easy fit?
M Ogden

Hi Sussex MG have the 5/8 bar for £56 plus you will need the mountings which are a couple or so pounds each. I don't use polybushes!
Bob Beaumont

MGOC have them for £50.95 inc vat for 5/8 and the same for the 11/16 bar, i am going to fit one in the winter but not sure which one is best only use it for fast road use.
mark 1500 on the road Preston Lancs

http://www.jegs.com/i/ADDCO/020/111/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710748678&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=pla-177201430151&catargetid=230006180003463852&cadevice=m&gclid=CjwKEAjwgbG5BRDp3oW3qdPiuCwSJAAQmoSDVlh6d2kibnVSTns-5hlIa4W4VPIN4qBk-kb__dPpQBoC3Avw_wcB


the long mess above is a link to my arb ...i think its 3/4inch from addco...i havent installed it yer but the racer boysswear by th3m


remember if you get a bigger abr rod you have to reinforce the frame where it attaches of the abr will rip it out
prop

Either 11,16" or 3/4" bar is the go. If you really want to feel the difference and make the thing handle properly go for the 3/4"
but as Prop says, you will need to strengthen up the mountings on the rails
willy
William Revit

Opps ... that exact link is to a MGA... not a midget

but its easy to find ADDCO bars for the midget...

prop
prop

I like the way they call them European Car Sway Bar Kits.

I installed mine years ago. It really makes the car handle well. Along with the 6 inch wide wheels and 185-70 tires.
Martin Washington

I made my own Panhard rod for the Frogeye. No need to drill the body, I welded up a bracket that uses the fuel tank mounting studs. It's been on the car over 5 years and is still totally secure. Good point about rubber boots for the rose joints - I need to check how much grit has got into them! No problem to replace as they were cheap. Anyway it works very well, much reducing the lurching typical of the ¼ elliptic cars. I also have telescopic dampers so the rear end is quite well behaved now.

I have polybushes on the front and the steering is more precise. But there is more kickback on bumps.
L B Rose

LB any chance of a pic please
R W Bowers

I made my own also, easy to do, but not as easy as just buying one ...

Been in use a year now and no problem.


Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

Is a Panhard rod as good on a semi eliptical car as a quarter eliptical one? With the semi eliptical spring having an extra anchorage, I was wodering if the cost might outweigh the benefits.
Bernie Higginson

Bernie,
If you are clever you can use it to adjust the roll centre to suit your requirements.
But also prevents tyre rubbing on the side of the springs if you have little clearance.
I have 175/70-13 tyres and 5mm clearance between the tyre and the spring.

On particularly exhuberant corners i would get tyre rub, but no more.
Andy Phillips (frankenfrog)

I'm with Flip, i have the PM one on my 1/4 sprung car and it made such a difference. Beforehand it always felt like the back end was struggling to keep up in the bends.

Like Flip, rubber boots are fitted. I've actually just replaced the rod ends on mine as they'd got a bit rattle. This time round I've gone for the teflon lined ones.

How level Daniel? I suspect mine is probably with an inch at one end of being level, is that good enough?
Jeremy Cogman

I did not realise there was a welding job to do, with the Peter May panhard rod.

What is it exactly, John?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I made my own as I didnt want to use rose joints as its a road car and also, in hillclimbing im led to believe you arent allowed to have any item of the suspension rose jointed... could be wrong on that last point though?

It took about half a day to fabricate and does transform the car as you would expect. No draw backs that I can tell.

On some off the shelf designs, and im not sure without looking, you need to weld a metal tube to the spring hanger to slide the connecting bolt through. Even if you cant weld its not an issue as the spring hanger is easily removed and given to a garage to complete the job.
C Mason

No welding required on the PM 1/4 kit but I have a feeling you do have to with the latter inferior springing.
Jeremy Cogman

Andy,
'source new dampers' is a can of worms and probably only second to Front wheel bearings - the latter now finally sorted TG.
If money is no object then Peter Caldwell in the US is by all accounts the best place to get them but they are expensive.
In the UK it's a lottery and the odds on getting a good pair from the usual suppliers are probably the same as winning.
The consensus on here is to refurb your old ones, which is what I intend to do. Ideally remove them from the car and drain the old oil (search archives here or You Tube), it'll probably be grey mush; clean and refresh with motorcyle fork oil either 30 or 40 weight - personal preference here - 30 is lighter and nearer stock I believe whereas 40 is slightly heavier and may firm up the dampers a little. Provided the dampers are not shot and are just low on oil that should see a marked improvement - at least that's what I'm hoping for :)
Jeremy Tickle

Thank you for reminding me, Jeremy (Cogman). It's easy to forget that some people have to put up with those heavy, lifeless rear springs.

BTW Jeremy (Tickle). Peter Caldwell says he hasn't got any.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Andy

that is very similar to mine from winners circle ... i had to have mine modified at the bracket that attaches to the leaf spring perch because winners circle only sold them for lowered suspentions

and like yours i also added a flat bar acroos the inside of the boot floor that matches up with the gas tank holes and studs for extra support


Ill post some pic later on


I think the boots are a great idea as the joints do get dirty alot

prop
prop

Jeremy,

ABSOLUTELY LEVEL, and a inch isn't close enough for a road car, you might get away with on smooth race tracks. If you e-mail me I can send you an interesting spreadsheet.
Daniel Stapleton

Andy,

Relocating the RC from that dictated by the original springs is not a good idea as the further you move it away the more the springs and Panhard or other mechanism will fight each other resulting in an effective stiffening of the suspension in roll leading to oversteer. The original springs, while not an ideal axle location, are still significantly stiff laterally and trying to force them sideways by adding a new constraint with different geometry will cause issues.
David Billington

some of the forces that go through it are quite large. My frontline rear link is made out of quite small tube, and I needed to tighten up all of the bolts on the boot strengthener after the first track day as it molded the corner of the boot floor into a slightly different shape. all good now.

I have about 6mm clearance between tyre and spring and under severe cornering (track days) I start to wipe the sidewall of the tyre. that's probably due to me trying to peel the tyre off the wheel... The wheels stay pretty much in the right place though.


Rob Armstrong

Rob, I've got more like 20mm clearance from the spring and the tyres still rub on them! Amazes me that there is so much movement somewhere.
john payne

I delibrately dropped the height of the panhard rod, to drop the RC, on my semi-elliptic sprung Sprite, and the result was a much nicer handling car, especially in the wet.
Daniel Stapleton

This the bracket along the fuel tank and the rod...its actually parrell to the axle ... but looks caddy wonk


prop

And the modified bracket


prop

Bracket agiwn


prop

Daniel,

You probably didn't move the RC that much and the spring deflection was taken up in bush compliance so you won that one to your advantage. The installation that made me think about this problem was a 1/4 elliptic car and the Panhard was just below the boot floor IIRC and ran across to below the bump stop on the axle turret so a neat installation but resulted in a maybe 6" difference in the original RC and new RC by Panhard. I didn't drive the car but was driven by the owner and as a passenger I could feel the extreme oversteer induced.
David Billington

This thread was discussed between 04/05/2016 and 12/05/2016

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.