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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Panhard rod kit

I have a AH Sprite Mk1 and have fitted Frontline front and rear suspension. This gave a great improvement in road holding.
I am thinking of adding a Panhard rod kit to it as well.
Is this money well spent? Any experience?
J.W. Vlaanderen

Yes
The panhard does keep the axle more centered.
But it gives a rear steering feel when going over humps. And makes the rear slightly more twichy.

So if you have no problems with wheels hitting the arches I would not bother.
Onno K

absolutly huge improvment,,, the car should have came withone installed from the factory

just make sure its set up correctly

prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Best modification you will do. Never noticed any rear steer. Make sure its dead on horizontal when car is sat on its wheels.
John Payne

Isnt the frontline rear suspension actually a mumford link ?
if so it does the same job as a panhard rod......
obvious i know, but just to check off that possible misunderstanding....

or do you mean you have installed the rear shock conversion ?
in which case, you are in the same position as me as i am also looking at panhard rods....
From my research, opinion is divided, but to me it makes sense.....
The important thing(as john and prop say above) is to keep the rod level when the car is statically loaded so that when the axle moves up and down it causes the least amount of sideways movement. also it needs to be mounted at the correct height so as to give the correct roll centre for the suspension.
if you are buying a frontline one(or Peter May) then this will be already sorted for you. but just check with them about the recommended ride height for use with their kit. It may be that they are intended for lowered cars, and if yours isn't then it could mess up the settings...


Andy Phillips

Yes it is important (critical!) for the rod to be level.
But it then depends on how high or low your car is if you experiance the rear steer effect (which always happens!)
In holland we are cursed with a lot of straight speed bumps (not sleeping policemen) that single the problem out.
So if you live in a country with out our silly amount of speed bumps you might not notice it
Onno K

I have the frontline front suspension and the Peter May Panard kit. The panard gave much more improvement than the frontline front. The car drives better in straight line. Less bump steer in corners. It is more predictable and much faster in corners. I dont feel a difference in left and right hand corners.
The panard gave more understeer so I changed the 11/16 ARB for a thinner standard one. The Panard link should be mounted horizontal in the loaded car. It is easy: You can change the place where to mount the link see photo. Is the rear shock conversion an improvement?

Flip


Flip Brühl

Flip, do you have any more pictures... or measurements,, in particular the mountings of the bracket to the car..../

I'm going to make my own and that would be a big help...
Andy Phillips

Andy,
Over here it is hard to do it cheaper and better than Peter May. In Thailand it might be different. I have one more picture only. You see the corner of the fuel tank. Look at Peter May's website for details.
Flip


Flip Brühl

thanks Flip,
thats helpful..
i have all the parts already from another project and can do my own welding so it should be more or less free...
however its really all about the interest of designing and making it myself...
Andy Phillips

Andy, you are right. I fitted the FL shock conversion kit at front and rear. I also fitted an 11/16 ARB and stronger, 340 LBS springs.
I did not change anything to the hight at the rear. The front was about 10 mm lower due to the stiffer springs which are also slightly shorter.

Thanks sofar for the usefull information you all posted
J.W. Vlaanderen

Fitting a Panhard...
http://www.tooke.org.uk/pdf/panhard%20rod%20fit.pdf
Bob T

If the Panhard rod is absolutely horizontal (checked with the car on an absolutely horizontal surface and using a spirit level) you need maximum suspension travel on a car that is NOT lowered to get any rear wheel steering effect (in my experience).

There is no such thing as 'the correct height so as to give the correct roll centre for the suspension'. Rather you have the choice to leave the roll centre exactly where it is or raise it (neither of which I've seen on a Sprite/midget) or lower it (which is the usual choice).

I don't think either Frontline or Peter May Engineering sort the correct height for you unless they are installing it and you have stated whether or not you want the roll centre to remain unchanged or be lowered. It's also not just about whether the car is lowered from standard but the manner in which the car is lowered.
Daniel Stapleton

I tried to install the Panhard rod from Frontline to my Frogeye (quarter elliptic) but it does not fit because I installed a RC 40 damper, which is too big.
J.W. Vlaanderen

Ive left my car at factory spec height, and will continue to do just for the ease of driving around town....its hard to belive the amount of obsticals to be navigated when it comes to driving the midget on the avg open street

But how much does a 1 inch or 2 inchs of drop in the suspension really make in the handling of our cars...I know thats a open ended suggestive question

On one hand 1-2 inches sounds negligible and hardly worth the effort when camparing on a tape measure but on the other hand with ground to floor pan clearance being only 5.25 inches for a stock.factory set up ....1-2 inches of reduction is a sizable amount of percentage (20% to 40%),


2 hands Free....whats a boy to do??

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I'm guessing you either need to move the RC40 upwards or rearwards. Do you have any photos?
Daniel Stapleton

I have a 2 box RC40 system on my frogeye and run the large box across the back of the car behind the petrol tank with the smaller box next to the petrol tank. No problems with it fouling my Watts linkage.
David Billington

My panhard fits fine with my single box RC40.
It is tight between the spring and panhard but since you don't have the back part of the spring it should be easier
Onno K

@ Onno + Daniel, The RC40 is already very tight between the tank and rear axel. I can't see how to move the damper and to fit the Panhard in. Do you have a picture Onno? The idea of David to put the damper across the back of the car seems to me the most likely way to do it.
J.W. Vlaanderen

the RC 40 should be behind the axle.....
And it is to the side of the panhard so I can't really see how yours can hit it
Just a pic of how close it is to the back


Onno K

@ Onno, See my picture, there really is no space for the Panhard. The bracket is mounted on the side of the damper and it fouls the damper.
The car is lifted of the ground by the chassis. So the ax is hanging down.


J.W. Vlaanderen

And I cannot move it backwards anymore.


J.W. Vlaanderen

My exhaust is a good bit further back.

Try using the rear overrider bolt you now have it on the front one.
Also try bolting the exhaust with the U bolt pointing to the outside of the car.
These combined should give you the clearance you need.
Onno K

Your RC40 needs to be much nearer the rear of the car or put another way further away from the axle. This does mean that you have to saw maybe 6-8 inches off the tailpipe of the RC40. Once you have done that then the Panhard rod will fit.
Daniel Stapleton

This thread was discussed between 21/04/2013 and 29/05/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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