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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Petrol pump noisy

Hi. I've had a Facet pump on my midget for 12 years after having problems with the SU. The electronic pump has never let me down. I had it fitted by an mg specialist at the same time as having the head converted to unleaded. They put the pump in the boot which I have always been able to hear but it did go quieter once the petrol got through. I read that pumps should be below or level with the tank so when I was doing other work under the car I decided to move the Facet on to the rear bulkhead where the original pump was. I thought this would make it quieter as it is further away from my head and that it would get petrol easier. When it was boot mounted it was higher than the tank. The pump no longer goes quiet so is louder than before. I can't see any pipe leaks. Any ideas.

W Clough

there was a recent thread on the fitting requirements for these pumps, sorry I can't remember details

if you've moved the pump higher or lower (?or from being diagonal?) that might effect it or if you've move it from one panel to another perhaps it carries more vibration/noise to you

the one time I had that type of pump fitted, to another classic, I found it to be very noisy and thudding at the body panel at idle despite being fitted to rubber insulators like yours

what's their normal life, is it a good time to replace before it fails or has it got loads more years to go
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel. I have moved it lower so that it is about level with the tank. When in the boot it was about a foot above. The noise it is making is the same as it has always made before it primed. Some say they need to be mounted at an angle which was and now isn't but suppliers said that it didn't matter. If nothing else comes up I might follow this up.
W Clough

These pumps prefer horizontal or outlet-up installations. It looks like yours is outlet down. Try reversing it.

I thought you'd cracked it that suggestion but alas not. When I turned the pump over I had to raise is it has a longer inlet and the inlet pipe would have been below the bulk head in harms way. The pipes have also had to go through some tighter bends which could stress them. Anyway it still sounds as though it is pumping air, very noisy. I've shut the garage door and walked away until I can rethink. Thanks for ideas up to now.
W Clough

did you use long loops of rubber fuel line that cross as with the original installation (well mine anyway)

that inlet filter will mean the rubber line to it will need to extend more

could it be a crack in the fuel line or a seal not completely sealing (jubilee clips, rubber to pump fixing or copper supply pipe, joints on/to pump)

if the rubber fuel line used is 1/4" bought during the last 6/7 years I'd thoroughly inspect it for crazing or cracks as I've had many different lots of rubbish rubber fuel line, I now use modern 6mm (Goodyear) fuel hose and it seems a better fit than the 1/4"
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel. I will recheck when I've got my mind right again. The rubber hoses are OK though as they are new 1/4" fuel grade and very thick. I am having trouble getting them on the Facet pump inlet and outlet as these have large lips and I have needed to warm the hose and still struggled. 6mm would definitely not go on them. Before I do anything I am going to get the car off the axle stands and on the level. If that fails IO am going to double check all copper from tank to pump. If all OK I will have to put up with the noise until I learn something new or buy another pump. Thank again
W Clough

>>new 1/4" fuel grade and very thick<<
Walter so were all the ones that I bought that leaked, I bought from at least 4/5 different suppliers over 5/6 years :)

I think you'll find other than me that have found these pumps to be very noisy but if it was quiet before then obviously something has changed, could you do a temp fix back in its previous location to see if its still quiet when its where it used to be
Nigel Atkins

Hi W,
The pump needs to have the outlet at the top as Roadwarrior says (are they your real names?)
The pipes need to have large radiuses so they don't squash closed. You may need to drill two more holes to mount it the pump.
Dave Brown

I haven't touched the car today but I have spoken to both Merlin and Rallye Design who said the orientation shouldn't matter. The Facet US website says mount in upwards position which I take it to be flow upwards. They also say it should be at an angle of 45 but listening to feedback on the web this is not critical. In fact some have said they have them working horizontally and upside down. I will keep you informed when I get any further news. Has anyone experience of the Mr Gasket 42 type pump? Facet do one which looks the same. This may be a possibility if I can't get rid of this awful racket
W Clough

sorry can't help you with Mr Gasket 42 type pump but having seen the price of it I can recommend the electronic pump I've had fitted for 6 years now, it makes no noise other than a quiet blub, blub, blub, when filling the bowls at an initial ignition switch turn on, or very occasionally a blup when stationary

the pump works on many more cars than just listed here - QFP171E -

and no need to be fitted to anti-vibration bobbins
Nigel Atkins

Nigel this might be the way. The Mr Gasket and Facet equivalent look a bit cheap and cheerful. I read that the qfp171 has 8mm inlet and outlet. Are you using 1/4" (6mm) copper pipe and if so are you using adapters?
W Clough

I had one of those QFP171s on my last Midget, but I couldn't stop the carbs from flooding.

I tried changing the needle valves, but to no avail.

I ended up repairing and refitting an SU pump.
Dave O'Neill2

must have been faulty then Dave as I've never had any trouble with mine with two different sets of carbs on my Midget
Nigel Atkins

I have dropped the car off the axle stands and started it up. After a minute the pump primed and was much quieter. Thank goodness. However I am not happy with this installation now as I have a very tight bend on the inlet which will split I'm sure. My choice now is to reorientate the pump against Facet guidance or replace the pump with one I can place better. I didn't ask, is the qfp171 electronic or does it have points like the original SU? Untidy installation photo attached. Compare with original installation photo. Thanks again

W Clough

can you not move it a few inches, rotate it 90 degrees anti-clockwise, and have the inlet and outlet pipes almost in a straight line?
David Smith

David, the lever arm damper is just on the right and would foul the inlet. I am now going to leave it as I am mobile but I will consider a new pump after Christmas and a much neater installation. Thanks everyone for your help. My radiators now leaking. Deep joy and seasons greetings. Walter
W Clough

could you pull back the copper pipe to the inlet (or shorten it) so that you have a longer length of rubber hose that would have a shallower arc

for your radiator if it's not a bad leak you could try some Barrs Leak, as I put in another thread I was told Cosworth used Barrs Leak on their engines, possibly as a conditioner as much as anything(?)

there's probably lots more crud in your cooling system that has far more potential to clog anything or cause hotspots than Barrs Leak could

if you drain the coolant I've got a simple but thorough coolant system cleaning method that a couple of posters on here have used to reasonable effect, just let me know, main thing is to remove the engine block drain plug and scrap out the crud there with wire whilst draining and flushing
Nigel Atkins

if it was working well and quieter in the boot, have you considered putting it back there? Save a lot of heartache!
J Tickle

Hi everyone. I have replaced the Facet with a German Hardi pump. I know; unnecessary expense, but doesn't the installation look neater and it is much quieter. It might not look it but the inlet is well clear of the inlet pipe. The worst job was connecting from 1/4 to 5/16" (6 to 8mm) with the hoses without having to introduce adapters and the consequential extra jubilees and therefore more joints. I used 6mm petrol pipe and heated the ends to force over the pump 8mm connections.I have attached a photo. Thanks for all your help in the past on this one. Walter

W Clough

And what was wrong with the SU pump? I've forgotten.
Lawrence Slater

well done

good choice to use modern 6mm fuel hoses as I've found on various occasions and batches of hose that the 1/4" stuff cracks or leaks

strange to see the pump at that angle when used to the original style pumps, plus your pump looks smaller
Nigel Atkins

I used an MGB rear gearbox mount (I think) Moss(US)#413-050 to mount my pump and it quieted it down quite a bit. Even if you use a big rubber donut like on Walter's original photo you still have a bolt going all the way through it to conduct sound. The transmission mount is connected only with a piece of rubber, no through bolt.
Jack Orkin

This thread was discussed between 20/12/2013 and 03/04/2014

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