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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - pictures of how you mounted rollover bar in 73?
|Does anyone have pictures of how they mounted a rollover bar in a 73 (or other model with exactly the same profile rear area).|
Do you weld in some doublers. My rollover bar has four holes in the mount area where it is supposed to be bolted in. Here is a picture of what it looks like just sitting in the car. It comes close to fitting but the car would need to be modified to make it possible to bolt in.
Sorry carpet is in the picture. You can see that on the side where the left forward leg of the bar sits, it is on a higher "shelf" (fender?), which does not appear to be quite wide enough.
|This is not an easy job... If you can weld it, then bobs your uncle (britsh way of saying that the cats meow)|
bolting, well thats another issue, I used a 1/8 inch plate steel about 3 foot long under the rear shelf deck and used grade 8 hardware...the other front feet I used 5/16 inch bolts about 4 inches long and drilled thur the shelf and thur the brace and used a flat washer and lock nut on the vary bottom but I have to warn you plan on 3-5 days to bolt on and pull both seats 1st, its going to take alot of fiddleing
If I did it agian... I get some ledge (lip) steel bushings and weld them to the shelve and tap the inside of the bushing holes and drill the feet of the roll bar so the roll bar feet would fit over the bushing and use a grade 8 screw and flat washer to screw into the bushing and secure the roll bar, then its easy in and out and still vary strong,
but agian welding it is permentate but alot easier
|Rebecca, that doesn't look like any bar for a midget chassis that I've seen before. Are you sure it came from a Spridget? Most bars for Midgets run the front leg down along side the B pillar to the floor pan. Because of my height I didn't have room for that style so I modified a bar from a MGB and mounted it on the fender wells and rear frame sections just above the axle using home built plates on both sides of the sheet metal, I also added a diagonal bar from side to side, a horizontal bar to mount the shoulder harness on, and what's called a "Petty bar" running from the top center to the frame rail in the passenger side foot well. Mine is a bit on the short side as I built it to clear the folding top but with the new seat I'm low enough to clear tech at the local autocross. |
That's the old Nissan seat shown in the photo.
|No. I am not sure that it is for a Midget or even for my particular Midget. The guy who sold me my car (who has lots of MG cars and has been in the business for years) gave it to me. I am reasonably sure that it was designed for an MG but it is possible that he was mistaken about which MG it is for. It looks like the rollbar that i have seen for sale on line for MGs but I don't know who made it.|
That is what it looks like sitting on the ground:
In the car:
That's not like any Midget roll-over bar I have ever seen. Here in UK 'normal' roll-over bars (whether from 'Safety Devices' [ex 'Alleybars'], or from 'RollCentre) have the main uprights running down behind the B-Post with the foot of the post sitting on the outer edge of the parcel shelf. they then bolt through the wheel arch.
The rear braces sit on the junction between the rear of the parcel shelf and the wheel arch where they bolt through:
|In addition I'd say that bar is badly thought out because the rear braces will send loads in all sorts of odd directions if you had to use it in anger. Indeed I'd bet the bar would collapse in a bad shunt. I certainly wouldn't trust my life to it.|
Aside from the fact that it lacks a diagonal brace (a requirement here for racing), I would think that bar would upset any RACMSA scrutineer.
Daniel, care to comment?
|Yeah thats the bar I have and the same one davied leib has, its not a strong as the on deb is showing, this is more for street and a one time hit, It could be better, but its still better then sliding on the ol human hat rack|
Ill post some pics of mine latter tonight, as I got to get some pic for rach also
Is it just me or is this place turning into a real chick magnet womans club, I dont ever remember this many women on here, (About time)
hope we dont have to loose the girly tool calanders
Prop... Women and MGs, Daddy is that heaven?
|"hope we don't have to loose the girlie tool calendars"|
You can have them if I can have calendars showing firemen playing with their hoses!
|This is my (non-racing) "aero" bar fitting.|
Bolted through with re-inforcement plates behind.
|Dean Smith ('73 RWA)|
|I think that you guys have convinced me to ditch my bar and create a new one from scratch.|
|prop i think its me thats attracting the girls. i have that effect,well in my mind i do anyway Lol. anyway back to the rollbar,its looks just like the one i had in my old caterham.|
|Rebecca, in Oz we are not required to run a full cage like Deborah's, just a half cage like Bill's. However the main hoop and rear supports are usually mounted as per Deborah's (where they have most strength), and we use the "Petty bar" as per Bill (which also stiffens the shell).|
Mounting to the floor can interfere with seat fitting, is not as strong, and needlessly adds the weight of another two feet of tube.
Spend the extra $$ for moly tube.
Our regs require the top of the main hoop to be at least 2" above the drivers head, and I don't ever want to discover if that is enough.
The roll bar you have will do you well I belive unless your doing alot of road racing i woudnt scrap the bar and have one custom made
here are 3 photos of mine
|from under the shelve .... its NOT warped just a photo effect
|and the full plate... agian its NOT warped|
That plate undernieth the car only makes it harder to pull the bar out. If you want to make it more difficult to cave the bar in, the plate would be in the car, above not below the sheet metal.
|Thats correct phil,|
As I said above, the roll bar is good But it could be much better. There are alot of ways you can become upside down, Creating alot of various forces acting on the roll bar as your sliding across the pavement
IMHO based on how the bench self is structurely made I dont think cave in is as much an issue as pull out, even with cave in you will be incapsulated but with pull out....well your going to have a really bad hair day.
I think you have to build to be safe but reinforce your build for what you fear.
That said, even if you use duck tape to secure the roll bar to the car, your still safer with it then without it
|Those bolts will be easier to remove in the future if fitted with the exposed thread inside the cabin|
|I just would n't even contemplate fitting a roll over bar as promoted by Prop - having seen what can happen when it's called into use it needs to be mounted properly on a strong part of the car. |
From a safety point of view Prop's installation is as much use if you roll over as an ashtray on a motorbike!
Keep safe and bin it.
|I'd say Prop's is as good if not better than the aero type. As he points out it's always going to be better than a vinyl hood and frame!|
WOW... You got my curiousity Now... please fill me in on what I need t do to be safer with this roll bar installation.
The roll bar is NOT my design nor did I build it. its made by the smae company that made rebeccas. its designed to be bolted in as you see, or welded in... the only modification I made was the 1/8 in steel plate 3 feet long on the under side... the Factory instructions call for simple fender flat washers around 3 inches in diameter
was I wrong in dis-obaying the flat fender washers and using the 1/8 inch steel plate thats 3 feet long that ties both sides of the roll cage togaher? I know others have just made a copy of the roll cage feet and placed it on the other side to bolt thur... So I doulbt thats a good idea ither
please advise... Perhaps I should go back to the flat fender washer as to the manufactures instuctions if you think thats safer.
|Les, these bolt in roll bars are not unusual here in the US. They are not designed to be used for competition, just a bit of extra safety from a roll over on the highway. They do not meet the requirements of any of our major race sanctioning bodies because of the lack of a diagonal bar. Moss U.S. sells this one as an example, http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29692&SortOrder=1|
For some classes for SCCA stock racing bolt in bars of some designs are permitted, but welded in units are prefered. Prop's mounting is well done for a "street" type bolt in bar, with a wide area to distribute the stress over the sheet metal panels. Yes in some scenarios it may pull out or punch through but the idea is to give some increase in roll over protection, not be totally secure as a full race cage would be. The bar I use started out as one of this type I added the extra bracing and tied those into the chassis rails for extra support. I did that to meet the class requirments for my modified car which require a more substantial bar than a stock unmodifed Spridget.
Prop doesn't autocross his car, or at least I don't think he's done that yet other than at the Sprite 50 meet last year. Rebecca is planning getting quite involved in autocross from her posts and I have tried it a time or two and we both want a bit more protection than offered by a simple street bar.
Here are the two most common types of bars offered for Spridgets, you can see the difference and the disclaimer on the "street" bar versus the SCCA approved race bar. Both are bolt ins though. http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sm/full.aspx?Page=14
|Prop - I hear what you say but I personally value my own existence too highly to rely on a roll bar installed in that location - reinforced or not. Whether for road or competition I would go for a bar that use the structure of the car - bolt in or weld in. Your choice.....but definitely not mine.|
Bill - I guess it's a case of horses for courses, however, having seen what a relatively low speed roll can do to a midget with a roll over bar I go for something that would offer some real protection. It amazes me what specialists will sell to make money. You can't put a premium on safety!
I understand where your comming from now, sorry if I slapped ya a little to hard a few postings back, I thought you where on the attack for some unkown reason. (dukes UP!) LoL.
yeah ive only done the one autocross as bil has mentioned, it was fun, but not something Id persue with any real diligance, After seeing a MX5 (mazda miata) upside down several years ago, I decided then and there "I needed some type of "Anti bad hair day device" and wanted something both good looking and "Safer" but considering Ive never put a vehical on its roof before I choose a bar that had nice curb appeal and safty 2nd, after all I drive way to conservitive, but I love my cheap auto insurance, and certianly dont want to see it go up anytime soon.
the one modification I would like to do to the roll bar and may down the road would be to re-make the front feet like the Aero roll bar... even tho its a steet bar, it does give a better scence of security compared to No bar... (yeah that maybe a FALSE scence so maybe Ill just get to leave a good looking corpse behind. LOL
Bill is correct, if this is a race car your building that roll bar is not enough, I just assumed your car was for the sreet. You need more!
(Is it just me or did you also hear billy idol scream out with a reble yell, she wants more more m.....o....r.....e!!!!)
|Ok I'll reiterate (and agree with what has been posted before, ESPECIALLY by Mr Snowdon).|
That roll-over bar, Prop, is about as feckin useless as a chocolate fireguard!
Indeed it might as well be MADE of chocolate!
Christ ona stick LOOK at it, and where the stresses will go if you have a shunt!
The nature of the rear stay design is so bad that, in the awful event of a roll, the roll-bar will collapse because the rear stays CAN NOT brace the hoop - they will spread the loads in ENTIRELY the wrong vectors. It doesn't matter whether you have welded it in or whether you have reinforced the mounts.
WHEN it collapses it will fold you into your footwell like a piece of crepe paper!
In a shunt that roll bar WILL collapse!
Bye bye head! Bye bye upper body!
Now, you may argue all you like until the cows come home Prop old friend, but the bottom line is you are WRONG (along with every other unsuspecting person that buys crap like that!).
All you are doing is lining the pockets of bandits.
You are CERTAINLY not protecting yourself!
You Just found your American Market product... "Pristist Roll Cages" you can design, manufacture and sell roll bars for all kinds of sports cars from mustanges, to MX5s, to the new mini coopers and the smart car. ect. ect. I can see you now on QVC, homeshopping network, wal-mart, advance auto, autozone, heck Now that corp. can put up there own politicans such as senators in washington DC you can buy one to represent you in fed. gov. and increase your market share by fedral law.
As ive already stated, The current roll bar is not a perfect design and as many have aready stated including myself... this bar can be improved greatly,
It sure is a far cry better then the old safty system I was relying on... the windshield frame, and If Im lucky the soft top in the up right postion.
Deb until you design, manufacture and start selling a better roll cage for decent money, Im stuck with what I got. So unless you dont care about my pretty hair and well being, the future of my safty is in your hands, If live or die, I have no control. its solely your call.
when will We see the 1st rough draft of the new design? or should I spend my day off tomarrow picking out a grave stone...LOL
Prop... Please deb, dont let me die.
|No proplem Prop, just have strong views on safety inopen top cars and crap being passed off as of saome benefit!|
If I EVER get set up over there then roll-over bars/cages will probably be a product I'll offer. I'll need to look at the SCCA regs and compare them with the FIA/RACMSA regs we use over here and come up with a design that suits.
I was giving a little extra thought last night on this, what would be cool would be to have 5 to 10 universial fully adjustable designs so a roll bar could be adapted to just about ever car/truck on the road
I think the street (and sometimes track hobbiest) roll bar market would be where you would see the largest market potential
I was thinking for high and wide adjustable measurements, you could do some kind of 2 part screw in /out of the 2 halfs of the tubes with a innner bolt thur adjuster on a worm shaft to be hooked up to an air/electric impact wrench ,,,,and an outer reinforcing adjustable lock down nut for the outside of the tubes so they would oppose each other. and have various twists/angles/curves sections that can be purchased by the consumer with the same 2 part inner/outer locking system so the cage is completely customisable to the masses. for any application
Then have the roll bar cage feet on 360 degree swivels...sort of like the extention pads aka ground leveler feet on a profesional painters extention ladders...make it all out of light weight space age material,,,you might have something with mass appeal... then you could focas on only 10 frames to suit 95% of all the cars/trucks on the road, instead of 1 cage design for one specific car design
Im guessing she ran for the hills with her hair on fire ... i think we scared her off good!
at least we still have Deb, and Rach to keep us civilised
|Ok. I was working on my Midget yesterday so I did not get a chance to read all these messages. My previous posting in this thread above was that I had decided NOT to use the rollover bar that someone gave me. I had thought that the best option would be to just build a customer roll cage.|
However, after seeing that SCCA compliant one at the link above, I am still considering that one as a stepping stone (something to install while I am deciding whether to fabricate a real roll cage). Lots of people at our local autocross have real roll cages (including parts that cover the sides where the doors and and brace all the way up to the firewall on both sides.
You might wonder what kind of racing I am going to do. Well I don't really know. I am doing autocross (fast autocross) now and I will probably also try track racing. What that will lead to who knows......
Thanks for all of your comments.
|Rebecca, first thing I'd recommend is what I did, get a copy of the SCCA rule book and check out the requirements for a roll bar for your class or what ever class you might plan on moving up to. For me that was E Modifed because of my V6 engine and that class required a bit heavier bar with more supports than a street stock class car. Might as well build what you need from the start. If you plan on using the car on the street you'll want the bar either to be fairly easy to remove (bolt in ) or keep it low enought to clear the folding hood (top) which will have an impact on your seat selection depending on your height. If I remember correctly the top of your helmet should be at least 2" below the bar so you'll wind up with a very low seat.|
|I am pretty short (the other bar that I have abandoned was one inch taller than the windshield (and could fit under the hood). The top of my head with a helmet on was a lot lower than the bar. However, I want an instructor/passenger to be safe in the car too.|
|When I used to autocross with the SCCA, and it was many, many years ago, the only requirement was a helmet and the organizers provided some loaners for us non-racers. There was no roll bar requirement, most of us brought our street cars to have some fun putting them through their paces and playing boy racer. Are roll bars required now? It's one car on the track at a time and a relatively slow, flat, twisty course. How easy is it to roll one of these cars, anyway? I would think a roll bar would be more useful on the way to and from the track!|
|Roll bars are absolutely required. SCCA has more stringent requirements than lots of the other clubs (I aim to at least comply with theirs).|
I get the impression that it is not hard to roll a car especially if it slides sideways and hits something. Our autocross track is pretty clear of stuff to hit so I am not afraid of a little test and tune this weekend (but I won't push it to any extremes yet). With high performance street tires (not race tires) I think that I am safer too.
|Jack, not all classes require a roll bar, but they are recommended. Height is dependent on the class as well, with the street classes allowing a shorter bar that will clear the convertable top (hood). From the SCCA Solo rule book.|
Roll bars or roll cages are strongly recommended in all cars. A roll bar
meeting the requirements of Appendix C or a roll cage meeting the
requirements of Section 9.4 of the Club Racing General Competition
Rules (GCR) is required in all A Modifi ed (AM), B Modifi ed (BM), C
Modifi ed (CM), and F Modifi ed (FM) vehicles and all open cars in Prepared
Category, D Modifi ed (DM) class, and E Modifi ed (EM) class.
The intent of this requirement is that all open cars using racing slicks
(non-DOT tires) must at a minimum have roll bars which meet Appendix
C, regardless of Regional variations in category defi nitions and/or
preparation allowances. For open cars in the Stock, Street Prepared,
Street Touring, and Street Modifi ed categories, the roll bar or roll cage
height may be reduced from Appendix C or GCR 9.4 requirements to
the highest possible height which fi ts within an installed factory-specifi
ed hardtop or convertible top.
Double-hoop roll bars must fasten properly to the chassis/unibody as
required by Appendix C, particularly at attachment points in the center
of the car.
|Im certianly not fearful of doing autocross with put a roll bar, Its a good idea to have one, but at a top speed of 35 mph and only for around 3-4 seconds, i just dont see the point of being fearful.|
Now fast spirited drivng on back country road doing 65 in a 30 with a 3 foot deep drainage ditch on both sides of the road, or getting scrubbed on the front end by a 18 wheeler freight hueler, down I-70 because he couldnt see me....yeah Im a definate fan a fan of the roll bar
Can these cars flip easily... NO I really dont belive they can and Ive never seen one flip upside down in any videos. Pound for pound, these car are so low you would need to be doing something really stupid to get the car up high enough on the side 2 wheels.
thats what makes them such perfect sports cars the center of gravity is so low the car sticks to the roads like a magnet as long as you got your foot planted on the gas pedal these little cars will hold the road like an industrial vacume cleaner... take your foot of the gas pedal, and thats a diffeant color altogather.
|One of my mates turned one over :)|
However, I'd rather risk my head to my own self-preservation than that contraption that is not going to work and probably cause more damage than it stops.
I promised me mum I'd get a roll bar - but, she's given up asking - and death is always a decent option to life :)
|My local autocross track is like none other that I have ever seen. The track is up to 2 miles long and involves ~250-350 cones. Cars overall average 60 MPH and in a few spots a few cars go much faster (and obviously there are slow spots). This is not parking lot autocross. It is very different. It takes place at an old military airfield and we use three runways (triangle arrangement). It is a blast!!!!!!!! For those of you in the USA, it is at the old Devens airfield in Ayer, MA. There are many many different clubs that race there (every saturday and sunday). Some of them use a shorter course (standard course) but three clubs NE-SVT, Corvette club, Track-club USA, do the fast long course and they invent a completely different course each time. Those three clubs use motorsportreg.org to pre-register and they share the same car number list.|
Those are the three clubs that I race with. It is really all the same people. I will go ahead and try my midget on the course this weekend but I will definitely feel that I can't really push the car hard until I have a proper rollover bar (the car is not really ready yet anyway). It is not unusual to see cars with inside right front wheel off the ground (especially the modified Miatas). I am sure that it is true that a rollover is very unlikely (especially if there is nothing to slide into and trip over). However, at each event many cars spinout and end up in the weeds. Now and then there are a few bits of junk hiding in the grass (but it is pretty wide open). Last weekend someone in a Mini S scraped off their oil pan (and of course lost all of their oil). (a 2001 Ford mustang also seized their engine - two cars had to be towed out). There are some people that show up with cars that are not street legal (and a lot of the cars use race tires).
By the way, most of these cars have rev limiters. Some of the cars invoke the rev limiter a lot (especially the miatas). I have been wondering if I should have one. It might turn out that if I do the math, I will find out that it is not possible to over rev my engine in second gear on this track (I need to calculate this). Can I assume that my engine will be fine if I don't go over red line or is there really a more gradual danger and I need to add a buffer? In other words, should I try and stay below 4500 or 5000?
|" Can I assume that my engine will be fine if I don't go over red line or is there really a more gradual danger and I need to add a buffer?"|
What spec is your motor?
|As far as I know, my motor is stock (not modified). However, I am still discovering mysteries about my car so who knows.|
|Also, has anyone ever installed a rev limiter? I have never seen one installed on an engine with a carburetor. How would it be implemented?|
|A miata is different in lots of ways of it's specs and build than a midget!|
Deb - she has a 1275 - as I found to my cost ;)! I have a habit of assuming all the Americans have 1500s!
|We use a MicroDynamics Digital one in our racer. In the photo' it's that black box to the right of the Tacho.|
It has 3 terminals:
Blue = Earth
Brown = Coil +ve
White = Coil -ve
It's a 'smooth cut' system that cuts back the spark when the (user selected) rpm limit is reached.
RPM limit is set up by running the motor at half the limit and pressing the red button.
So, for ours, with a limit of 8200rpm it was set up at 4100 rpm (this does require a decent, accurate, Tacho).
If yours is a stock motor then I'd set it up for the stock 'redline'.
Note: A rev limiter will protect your engine from over revving owing to less than judicious use of the loud pedal/missed gearshifts but it will NOT protect you if you downshift too early!
|Cool. That sounds exactly like what I am looking for.|
Lets make sure I understand. If I want to limit the engine from reving higher than 6000 I run the engine at 3000 rpm and push the red button. The result being that as I gradually increase the rpm (not from a quick downshift) as I approach 6000 rpm it will begin to cut back on the spark such that it will not go over 6000 rpm (nothing happens at 3000 rpm - that is just the point where you push the red button to set it to double that for the limit).
I will look online for a place to buy one of these gadgets.
So to make sure you agree, if my engine regularly revs (during a 2 minute race) almost to 6000 rpm but not over (or perhaps I should set it a little lower).
|Your US spec 73 will be completely out of breath long before 6000, even if in new condition. With a bunch of miles and a worn cam and chain, there is no point in taking it past 5000, except a bit to save a gear change before a corner. You will be wasting time above that. |
The engine is way stronger mechanically than it is breathing wise, so I wouldn't worry much about blowing it up, so long as you avoid 4-1 downshifts!
Listen for valve float, since you have single and likely worn springs - it will scare you to death when it happens though, and it will probably be before 6000.
People running on the rev limiter should usually learn to shift or set up the car better for conditions. I'd say there are a lot of better ways to spend shekels than buying a rev limiter at this point. Top of the list is the bar/cage - it is very easy to roll one at 40 mph if you slide off and hook a wheel (especially a wire wheel that collapses when you do it!)
I suggest you get over to the MGExperience Motorsports board, lot of info there for you, checkbook may suffer.
Thanks for posting the track info, sounds delicious! My daughter is at school in Mass (Mt Holyoke) and I have friends in Lincoln, so I might be able to arrange a visit to some race events.
|Fletcher R Millmore|
Thanks for your comments. It sounds like with a stock engine it would be hard to over rev it. I am definately going to take it easy until I get my rollover bar.
If you are coming up to Mass please let me know and I will check the schedule for fall.
|Rebecca, from the description of the track you are nearly road racing instead of auto crossing. Our courses are pretty large, using a large parking lot next to the local NASCAR track but nothing like you describe. Fletcher is right about the rev limiter, probably not necessary at this time. What I would do though is consider installing a low oil pressure warning lamp on the dash. That's not too expensive to do and pretty easy to plumb into the oil system and could save an engine on one of those long sections when you're concentrating on the next corner by alerting you to a problem. |
When you do want to consider a rev limiter here's a pretty good unit that is easy to install and will work with your present points type ignition as well as with an electronic upgrade. http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/drl/default.aspx
Photo of the course I last autocrossed here in KC. Probaby about a half mile total length, times for the quickest cars down around 29 seconds. This is just the center third of the total course with the start finish and timing van. The pits are behind the course.
|I like the low oil warning light idea. Is there a commercial product that is ready to install that you know about? do I need to install a new pressure switch?|
Deborah, is that what the big light is in the center of your dash?
The BIG ORANGE light is a Land Rover Indicator.
It is wired to a 35 psi switch in the main oil gallery (the pressure switch is a straight swap for the 5 psi switch fitted as stock).
I have told my 'Hero Driver' that IF that light stays on for more than 1 second he is to kill the ignition and park the car. The idea behind it being a BIG light is that even the most unaware person will see it and react!
Better that than destroy a race engine!
You have hit one of my pet peves, People that want work info but never tell you the IMPORTANT details...
I cant tell you how many times this happens to me in my work...My current job site is a classic example of what you just pulled.
as a house painter... Ive worked 4 freaken days doing vary hard work in this house with a serious dead line, only to find out at 5pm today, it was a complete waste of my time and there money...OH yeah Im getting paid thats for sure, WHY in gods name would I be stripping wall paper, washing off the glue priming, painting, taping IF The entire freaken wall is going to be removed. to open up the 2 rooms... I MEAN JESUS PEOPLE ... That little tad bit of info. known as the wall is going to be torn out tomarrow morning, would have been great to have know 4 days ago and $1000 worth of your money. Sometimes people just AMAZE ME.
Common On Rebecca, we are not mind readers throw us a freaken bone! I mean common on girl, this is post 55 on your thread and your just NOW springing this INFO on us, For crying out loud!.
You NOT autocrossing doing the weekend warrior thing and some fast driving on the street.
Your racing with an organised group that have established standards, guildlines and regulations....COMPLETELY diffferant from what you lead us to belive you where doing...The 2 have little if any in common...If your hitting sustained speeds of 60-80 mph hitting all 4 gears and it takes you 2.5 to 3 minutes to run a lap...Thats not parking lot boy racer weekend fun racing, Thats real racing! YOUR Beyound Go kart racing!
Bottom line, You need to figure out what the heck you want! Want class do you want to drive in, and have you earned the certification to do so. Is your class pure factory stock Are or do you want a full blown race car that you have earned the right to drive.
Theres no way we can tell you if you need a roll cage or not... what does the rule book say for the class you are running in, Im sure its fully covered for the type of racing that you want to do with there organisation
At the end of the day... you need to know what you want to do, what class you want to race in, AND you may have to EARN the right to drive in certian classes, Doing any work and buying any parts is a complete waste on your part at this time.. after all they may not allow in various classes certian types of seats/belts/shocks/ anti roll bars/roll cages/ heck for some classes it may not even be legal to drive the car on the road or allow any kind of interior thats not metal
BTW... dont be surprised if the organisation wont allow duel carbs or requires a remote controlled kill swithch and allow only certian brands of rev limiters
Prop ... NSA, CIA,FBI,IMF,KGB...ITS A SPRIDGET, not national security!
|Prop, it takes you 4 days for just one wall(presuming its both sides of the wall...)????|
Is that the great wall of China or what? LOL!!
|Arie de Best|
|LOL Prop - whilst you DO have a point - you also have to accept there are many people in this world who change their mind - after all, I'd asked someone to quote for painting the whole house as part of my rennovations next year - then decided that I was going to move to a whole different continent - so, on balance, tearing a wall down isn't THAT bad :)|
However, the reality of the matter is you can't actually use one car for too many activities - it doesn't work. I mean, I never see Deb in Sainsburys' in her race car - there just wouldn't be room for the loo roll ;)!
|I understand why it sounds like I don't know what I want. This is because I don't know yet. Currently I not doing anything other than this local autocross which does not require roll over bar. However, I have decided that I should have one anyway. In deciding what I should install I am trying to anticipate what other activities I will be doing. Obviously am not clairvoyant. I think that it is reasonable that I will try some real track racing some day (of course starting with some instruction). From what I have read, complying with SCCA secifications seems to be a reasonable place to start. Later if it turns out that I decide to do something different I can make the appropriate changes.|
Right now (this summer) I am only expecting to drive in the local autocross events. I will not push the car very hard until I at least install something). There are no edges to the track (nothing to slide into and trip over).
I would bet that if you went to one of the forums that is mostly for racing you will find out that people have changed the setup of their car over and over and over (suspension, engine, safety etc). I am sure that nobody can know exactly what they want when they first get started in this sport.
Currently I just want to start playing around at the autocross track (test and tune) and be safe doing it. Then (perhaps next year) I will try attending some beginner track day events (they require instruction first).
I am sorry that I frustrated some people. I am learning a lot from what others have implemented. Thank you for your excellent information.
Need to find a giant low oil pressure warning light. ;)
|I don't know if they do open track days there - or if there is somewhere that you can go and try lots of different things - that, I would imagine, at this stage, would be of great benefit to you, and then you can implement a plan of where you want to head - and what gives you the most fun.|
I would suggest contacting your local MG club, as they will probably be a good start to find out about this - or even race circuit.
|There are lots of tracks in New England that have open track days with instruction (before they let you drive alone). A lot of different clubs including the three that I am a member of offer these track day events. I will probably try some of these events next year. Also, a friend of mine is in charge of tech inspection at a local SCCA track series. He invited me to come and see what goes on sometime. I think that it would be educational to see what goes on at tech inspection.|
The tech inspection at my local autocross events is pretty basic (helmet, nothing loose, no bad ball joints) etc etc.
|Rebecca, here's an inexpensive 2" light that would mount on your dash easily and give you a great warning indicator. http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-submersible-round-marker-light-98394.html To actuate it you'd need to install a T fitting where your line to your oil pressure gauge attaches to the block and run the other side of the T to a low pressure switch such as this one. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Switch---Oil-Pressure-(Light)-BWD_18970310-P_417_R%7CGRPSESWAMS_673958576___ |
Run a switched +12v power through the lamp to the switch, it will ground if the pressure is low and alert you.
|Link there didn't work, try this one. http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=MPEOP6619SB_0150108984&An=599001+101963+50014+2014024|
These switches are pretty generic, switch at around 2 to 7 psi.
That is exactly what I will do. 2-7 psi, that is lower than I expected it would be set at. Is that because sometimes there are momentary lowish drops in pressure that are not dangerous for the engine that happen now and then (don't want the light flickering except when there is a real problem).
I definitely want to install a light. thanks for the suggestions.
|I wouldn't mind the light flickering a bit, at least I'd know that the pressure was dropping off and if I was in a corner I'd know that either my oil level was low or that I needed to consider some baffling for the sump. With stock suspension and street tires you probably won't pull enough lateral Gs to cause any oil starvation in the sump on that account. If you get really serious about the G forces with sticky race tires etc, and have any flicker on the lamp I'd consider adding some type of oil accumulator such as an Accusump system for engine protection.|
|2-7 psi is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard! By the time the light comes on (especially at high rpm) your bottom end will be toast!|
Personally I would us a MOCAL 35psi switch like this:
Available in the USA from:
7630 Matoaka Rd.
Sarasota, FL 34243
USA phone (941) 355-0005
fax (941) 355-4683.
|Deb, thanks for the lead on the higher pressure switches, I didn't know those were available. BAT doesn't show the switches in their on line catalog, but I did find a selection of switches in different pressure settings at Pegasus Racing if anyone else is interested. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=1856|
|Thanks for the suggestion Deb. for a light a local person also suggested using a shift light mounted in a place where it is easy to see it.|
I got my new summit racing catolog today, and they have lots of new toys.
How ever they have roll bar cages that are pre cut, and just need welding togather...And for really stupid money, AKA 10 point cage for $300, so if you got a friend or family member that can weld, this might be the way to go.
They dont have any listed per say the midget, But Id cwrtianly call and see if they do have a mdget kit, If not, WOW Id think get something close in size and shape and try to wegde it in
Prop...Methonal injector, Ooohhhhuuuu sounds like fun
|nk get something close in size and shape and try to wegde it in <<< thereby affecting the whole thing, and putting stresses on it that it's not designed for, and make it worthless in an accident ....|
This thread was discussed between 24/06/2010 and 02/07/2010
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.