MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Premier wshbones and Frontline issues

Having read with interest recent posts/comments re frontline upgrade fitted to our wishbones,we requested and were kindly sent a lower bracket from Ed @ Frontline Developments which fitted perfectly with no alterations and no shims were required.So i don,t know where the problems arose from particularly Arie although i noticed your bracket was different to the one you had.As i have stated before here our wishbones, Premier and STD are pressed using the same tooling in large batches as they have been since circa 1989 and i am sure during that time many have been fitted with the F/L upgrade and we have never heard of or experienced any problemapart from the need of a few shims on the odd occasion.I know in the past 2/3 years since we introduced the "Premier" many people have enquired re accomadating F/L and then purchased either via me at Gaydon spridget 50 or Stoneleigh this year and of course through our adverts and we have recieved no negative feedback of course i would like to hear any of your comments.So i am quite sure providing you follow F/L and our fitting instructions you should have no problems, i look forward to reading your replies thanks all i will try and post the photos all together if not one at a time Barry King
bp king

Hi Barry, thats good news!
On the previous posts i showed a picture of a used frontline bracket on the new wishbone.
These particulair brackets belonged to Matt(where i stayed during my holliday) who had them off his 1275.
Seeing that it wouldnt be an easy fit i left the old wishbone on my car(not swapping them during my holliday) and wait until winter to replace the old ones them for your new ones.
Your message gives me hope my brackets might fit fine on the new wishbones. :)

I will let you know howi get on once i start on my car.

Arie de Best

Arie, I'm sure that gentle tapping will seat the lower bracket firmly inside the wishbone. I would think that would be better than it being too small, and either shimming or simply tightening the bolts and stressing the wishbone.

Matt
Tarquin

If the fitting is the same with my brackets then gentle tapping wont be enough i fear.
We'll see, i might be lucky for once. :)
Maybe your brackets were to small too and got pulled outwards on your old wishbones therby not fitting the new wishbones?
Is your front suspension on already?


Btw Barry, they sure look nice and i especially like the reinforcements near the kingpin


Arie de Best

No they aren't on yet. I'll have a closer inspection tonight.
Tarquin

Arie are you sure your bracket is a frontline because compared to the one we used it looks crude and i understood by your post you had to use plasma cutters and welders to get to fit, so are you now saying you have not fitted it yet?
bp king

Photo 1


bp king

photo 2


bp king

photo 3


bp king

photo 4


bp king

photo 5


bp king

Id like to addd that I had NO problem fiting my F/L kit to Barry's pans.

Best Regards,

Howie


Howard Wright

Barry

Thank you for researching this!
verry nice to see the results

as said earlyer when the paintjob is done the front suspention is the first thing on the list and i am sure i will place an order then.
Onno Könemann

Howie.

Turn those shocks around..... if you leave them as they are, its very likely that the tyre will rub on the adjuster knob and you will have soft one side and stiff the other..... this does give very strange handling....!

Mark.
M T Boldry

Howie,

I'd turn the trunnion round too! :D

Coat waiting.......

David
David Hunt

Just put together ( wrong botls in etc) so I can push the car out & tidy up to many late nights working till *** and not tidy as I go. But thanks for the advise guys. Shell be back on the rotisery for the underside to be painted very soon.

Best Regards,

Howie.
Howard Wright

I have also recently purchased a F/L kit and a pair of Barry's wishbones and agree with both Barry and Howie that there were No Problems with fitting.

Have no fear, Onno.

John Shep.
John Shep

I've bought these great looking and wellmade wishbones as well. I haven't fitted them at this moment -it'll be one -of my many- winterprojects, but I've a lot of confidence in quality and dimensions of the BarryKing wishbones. As far as I was capable of taking measurements, I foresee no problems.
Rolf

And final picture fitted to our standard wishbone


bp king

Picture of the "old" wishbone that came from Matts 1275(soon to be 1380) :).
The Frontline bracket fitted perfectly in that one as it was ont it for a couple years already.
That same bracket is the one fitted to the new wishbones as was seen on the photo's on the previous threat.
The holes did not correspond so you either need to slam the bracketplates in wards or redrill the bolting holes in the wishbones...

Barry, when you started this thread i did got worried about it.
Did i measured it wrong as everybody elso doesnt seem to had any problems?

I now have tested my new(2008)Frontline brackets on the new wisbones and the result is the same as when i tested it this summer at Matts.

That means either the wishbones i have are made monday morning after a tuff weekend :) or Both Matts and my brackets were not correctly made by Frontline which isnt an impossible solution either but more a coincedence?

Image:

New wishbones with new brackets.


Arie de Best

side shot wishbone nr 1

right hole okay, middle is a little out and the left is a no go.


Arie de Best

side shot wishbone nr 1 otherside

well, the picture says it all...




Arie de Best

sideshot wishbone nr 2




Arie de Best

sideshot of wisbone nr 2 otherside

right hole is okay, middle one is doable but the right...


Arie de Best

I know, and so do my spridgetfriends, that i have a "lucky" thouch when it comes to getting parts deliverd that are broken already or break/wear out quickly or dont fit/work at all.
I kinda have learned to live with that.

Thats why i alway keep ready a plasmacutter, grinder, sledgehammer and welder if i order a brittish made "bolt on kit".
Call me negative but that is truly my experience since im involved in brittish cars(since 1993).

Barry, i praise you for your honnour on your craftmanship that you go all the way to test it yourself.
If only more people in the carparts buisness had your devotion then the parts buisnes wouldnt have its poor reputation today.

Barry, again my compliments on the quality of the wishbones and you taking your customers serious, im not blaming you or Frontline but the fact is i still cant swap the wishbones as easy as it should be.
...Unless maybe the brackets that are on my car now do fit...(fingers crossed) :)

Arie de Best

Good Gad Arie!

You got some issues, I cant help but think that your just on the beginning chapter of a long book to come, I mean if your that far out NOW, is the problem going to extend further up the chain? My guess Is YES IT will. I know suspension geometery has to be perfect with vary little give and take in the measurements....So Im really fearing your going to have more issues if the geometery is NOT spot on correct...even if you dont feel problems on the drive, you could face heavy /fast wear in the suspension system. Agian Im guessing, But Idont think Im that far off.

Id really consider or insist that a 3 way phone converstaion between You, Barry king and Frontline with the front wheels off and the front jacked up so the suspension is fully asseciable and a tape measure in one hand and a DTI in the other. and see where the issue is, for what we are paying for these kits, its not right that your stuck trying to fix someone elses monday morning hang over screw up. There is clearly an issue that needs resolving that was NOT created by simple opening a BOX.


I really Need a new money tree in my backyard, I think mine is broken...So Im REALLY looking forward to getting a pair of B.k. wishbones to go on my FL kit.

Prop
Prop

Howard,

Becareful with the truions turned around 180 degrees, to really throws the suspension way out and will make alot of crunching noise...with the wheels on it will look like "Benny the wallrace" as you look on from the front.

It took me 6 weeks when I made the same mistake, it was this BBS site that solved my "Benny the wallrace" look when NO other site or resource could...that was 7 years ago, And I have never left scence

I cant belive Ive owned my midget 7 years ago this month...WOW the fun, and misary Ive had...But the friendships Ive maade cant be equaled.

midget ownership for me is not just a hobby, its my religion.

Prop
Prop

Well get back to church and get your engine going!
Matt 1275 Bucks

At the risk of hi-jacking this thread, who will own up to giving advice to the "Young" Prop, thus giving him reason to frequent this BBS?!?!

One Post removed and everything would be much more "Normal" and Propless.

(To be honest, life just wouldn't be the same without Prop's acid wit and lightning responses.)

John (Luv ya Prop) Shep.
John Shep

Sounds like a job for an archive specialist...
David "not me" Lieb
David Lieb

Can I just say something stoopid? I've looked at Arie's pictures, and I can't see how they support his text. Arie - can you take a shot that's head-on to the plate?
Nick

Arie,

Here is a really duff question and I know the answer, but I figure lets take it off the table just the same...

Any chance you got the part of the 2 sides reversed...I dont know if that makes a differance, I wouldnt think it would.

But heck...I had a new computer monitor I purchased and it didnt work...took it back, 3 times and got a note each time saying they cant find an issue. Finally the salesman asked Me If I pushed the big ON/OFF button...

My reply, "What ON/OFF Button ?"

Prop
Prop

Can't you just bend the brackets inward ever so slightly? It wouldn't need much at all to make it, maybe 0.5mm at best.
Tarquin

A bit late to the discussion as been away for a few days.

The lower mount that BP King shows has a tapped hole for a bolt judging from the picture whereas Aries mount seems to have a nut on the end so has a male threaded end. I know the company that makes the current ones or did when I spoke to them recently, but my understanding is a number of companies have made them for FL at times so it may be down to quality control at the fabricator or the quality of the jig and where the dimensions came from. Possibly Arie has an older item not made as accurately?.
David Billington

Prop, if i swap them on from wisbone to wishbone i still get the same effect.

Nick do you mean a view from the kingpin?
Ill do so tomorrow.

Tarqs, i guess there is no other option then bending them, hence the sledgehammer. LOL
Arie de Best

Arie i still dont feel there is a problem loking at your recent pics (black brackets) there is no sign of a washer/nut/bolt mark on the paint, try the centre hole both sides loosely and work from there but when you,ve decided what brackets you are fitting and if you still have a problem give me a call and we will sort this Barry ps as for the monday morning hangover screw up comment they are not made one at atime on an anvil! see photo


bp king

WRT the last image, I hope there remains room in this world for engineers & craftsmen like this for a long time to come.
Paul Clark

I don't think there is, because the masses will not pay for quality. Everything is cheap cheap cheap. They are like locusts, when one supplier who's had to drop prices to stay alive, dies because of lack of profits, they will move onto the next one.I blame the supermarkets.
Tarquin

I can imagine that production tolerances can conspire to make the occasional combination of wishbone and FL unit a little obstinate. I'm quite prepared to do the small amount of fetting that's sometimes needed.

It doesn't mean the quality of the parts being used is open to question.

Barry - have you thought about changing the trunion in your design to something other than threaded pin (I'm thinking along the lines of nylon bush etc)? I'd love to see a better solution for this rather quaint design.

I know DB has happily used a modified design for some while...

A
Anthony Cutler

"they are not made one at the time on an anvil"

LOL Barry!!!

On your last photo I recognise one of my wisbones, the 8th from the top of the middle pile!! ;)

Barry, dont worry, ill guess when i start(december or januari) it ill get them on one way or another but will let you know how it all went.
Thank you for kind offer to help out when nessecary, I honestly appriciate that very much!

Tarqs, im afraid your true about the public shopping arround and demand "cheap" what ever they buy.
Arie de Best

>>>>>>>>>>>>as for the monday morning hangover screw up comment they are not made one at time on an anvil! <<<<<<<<<<<


"LOL." Thats so sad, Now automated machines are taking jobs away from people that work with anvils for a living...what next are we going to replace the little 8 year old chiniese girl that makes our condensors with a machine also...LOL

Prop...Anvilers have children to feed also...Prop


Prop

Arie,

While reading this thread I got a sudden flashback: IIRC I had to use some convincing tools to get my bracket in place to join the wishbone (no BP, not yet) Maybe the f/l kits are from the same manufacturer / period.
Alex G Matla

I had 3 FL kits in the early days. 2 on mine and one on the Mother-in-law car. None were a smooth fit. Round file and hammer. All had the 'threaded' end that took a nut to hold it all down.
rob multi-sheds thomas

My FL brackets had the same problems with the standard wishbones that are on my car. I just stuck the brackets in the vice and gave them some 'gentle' coaxing with a large Glasgow screwdriver. Fitted fine after that!

Matt
Matt

While you're looking at compatability, Barry: How are your wishbones with the speedwell kit? have you checked that one out? http://www.speedwellengineering.com/frontsusp.html

I volunteer to be a test installer, if you just send me a pair of wishbones.. (kidding... unless you aren't)

C
Chris Edwards

This thread was discussed between 20/10/2009 and 03/11/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.