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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Question for Daniel Stapleton

We are in the process of restoring a British Spec, (imported to the US when we moved here!) 1971 Austin Sprite, and during the course of cleaning up the wiper motor, discovered it was a 2 speed (but with a one speed switch). So we researched on which switch to use to make it a working 2 speed, and found out details are in your new book, the MG midget/A-H Sprite High-Performance Manual (we already have Total Tuning)! So we bought it, and there appears to be a bit missing....!!

On page 140 (after descriptions on the wiring etc), it says "Taking a standard headlamp switch with numbered connections, connect as follows:" and then a new paragraph talking about which switch to use. No mention of how to "connect as follows"!!

It would be much appreciated if you could fill in the blanks for us, as this is the exact bit of info we need. I know we could use an MGB 2 speed toggle switch (BHA4786), but you mention modifying a 3 position headlamp switch, of which we have a spare!

Many thanks.
Tricia Marshall

HA! So there's a book in wich these things are NOT :)
Alex G Matla

Hi Tricia,
I have a 1971 Austin Sprite as well. Mine only has single speed wipers but I will have to look and see if the motor is 2-speed. I know it is a round body motor - how can you tell if it is 2 speed?

My car is AN10/86947, built 5 March '71

Guy

Guy

IIRC the 5-way plug has five wires on the 2-speed motor.
Dave O'Neill2

See current thread on MGB Tech board.

FRM
FR Millmore

Guy, it wasn't, to start with! We decided to replace the brushes and ordered some, thinking we'd literally just get the brushes, and what came was a replacement part for the round brush holder and wires, and this had 3 brushes in it, not two. In the attached photo of the old one you can see the slot where the third brush would be. When we finished refurbing it, put it back together and tested it, my husband discovered that now it works as a two speed. Ours only has 3 wires (the original 2, plus the new brush wire), but on the bench during testing, if the other spades were connected, it gave the extra speed. Mike will add the extra wires in when we figure out how to connect it to the headlamp switch. It doesn't seem like it's supposed to work, but it does, so we're trying to figure out how to make it useful!

Our Sprite is AAN10 87200, built 31st March 1971. Owned by me since 1985, off the road and dragged around the world with us for about 18 years, spent the last year rebuilding. She should be back on the road this Spring.


Tricia Marshall

Thanks, FRM, I'll direct Mike to that thread and see if he can make heads or tails of it!! It may be that we won't be able to make it a 2 speed when attached to the loom, but it's worth looking into before we get the loom in car.
Tricia Marshall

Ah, so mine is unlikely to be a 2 speed one after all! Shame! But I will check in the morning just in case. ;-)

I think I worked out once that they were building around 300 Austin Sprites a month so our respective numbers/ dates at 251 apart fits that quite well. I have owned mine since 1989 but was given it as a complete basket case which I rebuilt over the following 10 years or so!

FRM, thanks for the link - quite a complex story - I now doubt that it will apply to mine though.
Guy

Guy, i have made my single speeder into a 2 speeder by simply adding another brush from a spare motor. Easy peasy.
Tarquin

Thanks Matt, I will take a look at the end plate and see if there is a cut out for an extra brush - if it doesn't have one already!

How's Lizzie? - Is she still dreaming of albatrosses?
Guy

Tricia

When I did exactly the same as you; converting the single speed into a two speed by adding the third brush, a few years back I used the MGB two speed switch, but that was with later rocker switch that has a matching icon on the rocker. Its a worthwhile and inexpensive upgrade.
Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

Thanks Ian, third brush is what did it for us! We have toggle switches, and just need to figure out that part of the wiring. We'll probably end up using the MGB toggle, but we have a spare headlamp switch, which it would be a shame to waste!

Thanks to all who replied, I'd posted on other forums, but got the most useful information here. Thanks again.
Tricia Marshall

I'd be very interested to see how a standard rocker Light switch can be made a dual speed wiper switch without internal modification.

For Wipers you need all 3 positions to be active - for Park,Speed1 and Speed2. For the headlamp switch its Off,Side,Side+Main so quite different.

I can find some web pages that allude to the fact that early MGB Toggle Light switches have sufficient unused connections to allow them to work but not later rocker light switches. Certainly I've checked a spare '73 midget headlamp rocker (which is the same part number as for similair B's) and that couldn't be used.

Is it a Rocker or Toggle spare switch you have ?

Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

Hi Guy, she's come round eventually :-) now she wants to get back into dinghy sailing so is looking for a cheap laser. If anyone knows of one anywhere?
Tarquin

Hi Tricia,

Sorry about the omission. Any switch has to have an off position, a position 1 and a position 2. I think the difference between using one type of toggle switch to another is where the flat on the switch is and where you put the switch in the dash. You can get around this by either fitting the switch upside down or filling the dash and subsequently living with the fact the switch needs to very tight in the dash otherwise it’s prone to rotate.
You are the second person to mention this and I’ve yet to remove the switch from the dash in my car to check what wires I used. However, though my notes indicate: 34/ is RG, 5 is G feed out, 7 is B/G 8 is BG but doesn't make clear what is brown green and which is blue green. I also found that while the switch worked perfectly and the wipers parked I had an occasional problem when driving over a bump in the road the wipers moved. To resolve this I removed the wire that parked the wipers and have been manually parking them for over a decade.
Once the weather is warmer I’ll remove the switch from the car and note how I’ve wired it.
For a rocker switch dash it’s simplest to purchase the correct two speed wiper switch.
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

"Any switch has to have an off position, a position 1 and a position 2. I think the difference between using one type of toggle switch to another is where the flat on the switch is and where you put the switch in the dash. You can get around this by either fitting the switch upside down or filling the dash and subsequently living with the fact the switch needs to very tight in the dash otherwise it’s prone to rotate."

Is somewhat over simplifying it. Lights and dual speed wipers have different internal switch requirements. In the same way that a hazard switch is anything but a simple on/off just because it has only 2 positions. The different cut outs of the 2 Lucas 3-way switches are precisely to stop them being swapped inadvertently.

It may be that original very early and specific headlight switches had sufficient internal options and terminals to be used for both - but most cannot.

Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

Not really. Some toggle switchs have an off position and on position - a 2 way switch rather than a 3 way switch.

I'm only talking about toggle switches.

I suspect that the reason the switches had different cut outs were as you suggest to stop them being swapped BUT perhaps this was due to the rating of the switch - some switches designed for high wattage components like lights rather than other lower wattage components fitted to other non Spridget cars (2 speed heater fan on a Mini/whatever).

In a sense the argument is acadamic as no-one can identify an early from a late toggle switch and the new ones are not made in the UK, unless anyone can advise me differently.

If you can detail the different internal switch requirements for all the different 2 and 3 position toggle switches then I guess that a lot of people, especially me would be very interested in learning that detail.

Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Well, if anyone has old spares, it's easy enough to take them apart to look, and to repair them. I used to.

I'll have to take a look in my loft, and see what I have left.
Lawrence Slater

Thanks Daniel, the info is appreciated. We'll give it a go, and let you know how we get on!
Tricia Marshall

Tarquin, we have a very good Laser for sale, may not meet cheap criteria, all the carbon bling race kit.
(Apologies re thread hijack everyone)
Paul MkIMkIV

This thread was discussed between 12/01/2012 and 16/01/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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