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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Quick question...

Does this starter motor have a solenoid attached? What do i do with the extra spade conector thats fitted to it? I bought it from Moss, part number GXE4439X. Moss don't seem to be able to answer my questions!


Jamie Watt

Not obvious but this does look like a "pre engaged" starter and as such would have an integral solenoid.

You need to supply this starter with the heavy battery cable from the battery (note the cable from the battery that would normally attach to your existing remote solenoid also provides power to other circuits If you move this to the new starter motor you also need to move the suplimentary wiring as well. That is the smaller wiring on the same post as the heavy duty)

Now the small wire that is attached to the lug on you solenoid is the one that needs moving and connecting to the extra terminal on the new starter
Bob Turbo Midget England

Perfect, cheers Bob, it is a pre-engaged started. Hopefully i wont set anything on fire!
Jamie Watt

Jamie, just fitted one of these yesterday! I presume yours is for a 1500 as the Moss part number is different to mine. Anyway, wiring wise it was the same as the original but could be done as Bob mentions if you want to do away with the original solenoid.

Only thing is, it didn't fit! The one in the picture has a mounting plate with lots of holes which I presume is to allow different mounting positions. Anyway, mine fouled the footwell and as it didn't have any more holes I had to drill some more in the right position. I considered ringing Moss but couldn't be bothered to be honest. Probably wouldn't have had a clue anyway!
John Payne

The easiest way to connect it is to connect the exixting starter cable to the new starter, move the solenoid end of the original starter cable onto the other terminal which has the battery cable connected to it.
Then detach the white/red wire from the small terminal on the solenoid, extend it and connect it to the extra wire at the starter.
Dave O'Neill 2

Thanks Dave, seems simple enough. Why the need to move the solenoid end of the starter cable to the other terminal? Does that give you more room to manouvre?
Jamie Watt

No, it gives you permanent battery voltage at the starter, which is what you need with a pre-engaged starter.
Dave O'Neill 2

Ah right, so put both the starter cable and the battery cable on the same terminal on the solenoid?
Jamie Watt

Yes, move the starter cable to the terminal which has the battery cable and the brown wire(s).
Dave O'Neill 2

Excellent, cheers Dave.
Jamie Watt

On mine you just connect the big cable to the main post on the starter as normal. There is then a small lead looped back to the spade terminal for the starter solenoid. In effect you have two solenoids, the original one sends power down the main lead as normal which opperates the starter one and the starter!! Even more to go wrong! I think I'll re-wire it to just use the starter solenoid.
John Payne

Then replace your solenoid with something like this:
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/p912.html
Trevor Jessie

I had a bash at fitting the starter last night only to find that mine fouled on the passenger footwell also, i was raging! I only need 1mm or so to get it past but i was a touch annoyed to say the least. Looks like i'll have to "mould" the footwell out of the way or try and shift the hole engine on it's mounts....i think i know which route i'll take....
Jamie Watt

Thanks for that link Trevor, I'll see if I can find something similar over here.

Bad news about the starter Jamie, really we should get in touch with Moss and tell them their very expensive starters don't fit.

I take it yours hasn't got the adjustment holes on the mounting plate like the one in your original photo?
John Payne

Unfortunately not, its fixed in it's position and can't be adjusted. Im so close to getting it sitting right as well and don't really want to bash at my footwell but i don't think it can be helped. Pesky Moss!
Jamie Watt

I had the same problem fitting one of these starters from MOSS and gave up in the end and bought a starter from BRISE ( which has the solenoid on the end of the motor)which fitted first time and works like dream - only issue was the cost but, hey, it's for the midget so it does n't matter
l snowdon

I got my high torque starter from

britishstarters.com

its been a dream and a favorite mod... they have a note on there wesite for how to hook up the wire and the 2nd selinoid

what makes this starter great is the face plate rotates 360 degrees so one setting will work if you can find it...

I found that loosing the engine mounts so the engine can be lightly lifted with a floor jack is the easist way to find the "Magic" spot that starter will go into... once you have that, mark it with a sharp cut in the metal matting surfaces and you will always be able to slip the starter in and out without having to jimmy the engine up and down with the floor jack and loosened engine mounts
Prop

Okay, technical question. On these "pre-engaged" starters, does that mean that the starter gear is always engaged with the ring gear, even with engine running? Surely not!

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Pre-engaged starters engage the pinion with the ring-gear before spinning the motor, unlike an inertia starter, which is spinning before it engages with the ring-gear.
Dave O'Neill 2

Gryf,

I've been confused by that term too, but I think I finally worked out that it means that the starter gear is engaged with the flywheel gear before (pre) the starter motor begins to spin. The other way would be with the bendix where the spin of the starter is used to drive the gears into engagement.

Charley
C R Huff

No Gryf

A pre engaged starter has a "gear" that is thrown into mesh with the ring gear on turning the starter key. This is thrown in by a solenoid, when it has engaged fully a copper strip makes contact at the same moment with the power cable supplying the starter motor rotor. Thus turning the motor.
When the key is released power is disconnected from the rotor and the gear retracts back into the starter.

What was the problem with your original starter Prop that made this a favourite mod?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Whew... I was afraid I was the only one that was suffering from lack of comperhinsion on that term... had it not been for the pic. id been lost

here USA they call them high torque starters
Prop

Thanks for the clarification! That makes sense.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Prop

""here USA they call them high torque starters""

No they dont?
A high torque starter is a geared starter and/or high power job. Albeit all the high torque starters I have seen have also been of the pre engaged type.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

This thread was discussed between 17/02/2011 and 20/02/2011

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