Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.
MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Re spray frogeye
|I would be interested please if anyone has an idea what it would cost to re spray a frogeye (no hard top), either if I removed all the cromework etc, or for the full job. |
There isn't actually that much to paint and I am also wondering if it's possible to do it with spray cans.
Many thanks, Graham
Can't answer the $ question, but I have seen entire cars painted with spray cans (like a big Buick) that didn't look too bad. I don't know long it lasted, and it seemed it was something like 40 cans.
If you are thinking of spray cans, you might consider an upgrade to a small compressor and a cheap 6-ounce touch up spray gun. Then just do small sections at a time.
|C R Huff|
|How long is a piece of string.|
Backstreet body shop for a quick rub down a blow over you might get it for £1000.
Taking it back to bare metal and fixing any minor issues then decent paint and post paint cutting you are probably looking at £5000 assuming no major issues are found once the paint is tripped.
Just to give you some idea
I had my frogeye bare shell painted professionally in 2-pack 26 years ago - cost me £1400 and it still looks good.
Roll forward and I've recently had my Elan +2 painted (which is somewhat bigger and fibreglass so much more difficult to prepare properly), rolling car, all chrome, glass, lights etc removed, 2-tone, metalflake roof, door shuts etc - cost me a shade over £3000
Significantly, the Lotus had no body defects whatsoever so the prep consisted of little more than stripping the car back to the gel coat, sealing, priming, painting and polishing.
|Pic of Lotus:-|
|With the ever rising sale values, particularly of Frogeyes, as they are, it currently makes better financial sense to get a good quality job done. |
When a reasonable road ready Frog was worth around £3000 then a rattle can or cheap back-street blow job (!) might have been justified. But if the end result now is going to be a £10,000 to £12,000 or more car, then anything less than a good finish would definitely detract from the value. This doesn't mean not a DIY approach, but done properly with good materials and equipment, not rattle cans!
(Nice looking Elan, Simon! - You illustrate my point exactly!)
|And Frog with 26 year old 2-pack|
|For the reasons Guy states and for the sake of doing a job properly get it down to a recommended pro. Personally I think spray painting is a bit of an art, and unless you are well versed and practiced in the techniques involved, despite using good gear, I do not believe you will achieve a finish the car deserves.|
You can offset the cost a little by doing all the prep work, the filling and the rub downs, possibly even applying the primer yourself, but the rest I would leave to those who know best.
|<You can offset the cost a little by doing all the prep work, the filling and the rub downs, possibly even applying the primer yourself, but the rest I would leave to those who know best. >|
When I was getting quotes for the Lotus I suggested this as a potential way of reducing costs. NOBODY was interested in taking on the job on that basis. They all said, and I have some sympathy with the view, that they wouldn't stake their reputation on someone else's prep work.
Whilst it may be the application of paint that's the tricky bit, it's the prep that makes or breaks the overall finish.
"wouldn't stake their reputation on someone else's prep work"
I think that is a somewhat posturing attitude. What they may mean is that they want all the work - not just the bit that doesn't take time, but all the skill.
I agree that prep work is important, but as ever, it depends on what needs doing. The basics at least can be done reasonably well by an enthusiast and the pros can finish it off.
But from the pro's point of view, he can't tell whether you've done everything correctly once you've covered it all up with filler and primer.
So it may appear to be a "posturing attitude" but it was a common response from 6 different pros.
I agree. The pro may well do a better job and reduce the risk, but of course at a cost....but then if funds are tight, you have to accept the risk as does the pro - the risk to whom is minimal providing he does not make a habit of it.
It is in the end a question of compromise if funds are tight. Personally, were I the pro and I knew funds were tight, I would give basic advice to the prep work required and offer no gaurantee on the final coat(s) - for the reasons you state.
I think you have been unfortunate in the 6 pros you selected - that or they are not short of work, so they can afford to turn you down.
Twice now - albeit on motorcycles - I have done the prep and someone else has finished it off with no complaint, and no adverse after effects.
To be honest, I didn't really want to do the prep myself anyway but I'd have considered it had the pro that I chose had shown some enthusiasm for my enthusiasm and a price reduction to match.
As you say, it comes down to budget and what it is that you are looking to achieve.
I'll have a go at most things but car painting and plastering (of the house wall variety) I've given up on!
|my two p' worth. . . facing redundancy and no income to splash around on the car, and wanting to get the engine off the bench and into the car, I decided to attempt to spray the under bonnet. I used a £80 gun, and got the cellulose from Brown Brothers, and off I went. |
It went on pretty well and to my surprise it dried nicely. It turned out to be the most rewarding part of the rebuild, so much so that (now redundant) I carried on with the rest of the car taking the view that so long as its painted I can always polish it.
This 'let me see how I got on attitude' taught me extra patience and perhaps I could even suggest without wanting to sound clever, a new skill.
In no way am I saying 'look at me' but, if you don't try you won't know and provided that you take your time, I think you might just surprise yourself, I know I did.
|Thanks for the feed back. Much appreciated. |
Guy makes a good point, the values are relatively high and on reflection, I am not sure I can trust myself to do a decent paint job myself and so I am better to leave it to the experts.
|Dont use spray cans on a frog... it takes ALOT of spray cans to make it look decent, you have to wet sand between coats and will take a good 5 coats minume and you cant use cheap spray paint |
Go to your machine mart and get this gun and a cheap compressor, use enamel with add in hardener if you can get it and do a panal at a time... enamal is easy to work, it flows nicely and wont take alot.of post buffing to look great
Agian... use this gun, its cheap, and does a.nice job, but its mainly a one time gun, ive used them several times ... they can clean up, but they dont do as well the next time and contunue to get worse over time...but 1st time out of the box, it does a great job, and at $15, its not worth the time plus the cost of reducer it takes to clean them
|Prop and the Blackhole Midget|
|Would this do the job?|
Id think you would get at least a 99 cent (almost a dollar) value paint job out of it...haha
The thing that could be an issue on a gun that small is the size of the spray pattern...if its around 4 inches or less it could look rather streeky
|Prop and the Blackhole Midget|
That is like my first paint gun. I actually did paint a number of cars and trucks with it, but the set isn't too good. Because there is no storage tank, they don't deliver a seamless airflow.
As a result, it is sort of like painting with a machine gun. With lacquer that is going to be sanded and rubbed out, or if you can get the paint to flow enough after it hit the car (without running) it was acceptable. Below is the first car I painted with it.
|C R Huff|
|Ah right Prop/Charley. So you'd have to do loads of passes to cover a whole panel, and that would take ages.|
But as I've said before, I used this small electric spray gun to spray my whole Sprite. And it came out pretty well. I did it back in the 80's and the paint is still on the car. So i reckon a cheap compressor and gun would do if you have the time and inclination to diy it.
Sure you couldn't use a cheap kit to work as a pro, but I do think you can get a pro look using cheaper gear. Celly is pretty easy to spray on. I agree, better not to make orange peel, but if you do, it's no crime to rub it down. Just hard work and a waste of paint.
Looks good Charley.
|For a long while Machine Mart have offered a basic accessory kit to go with their compressors. The price doesn't seem to have changed much for years! The kit includes a spray gun which I have used for several full car resprays plus lots of single panels, bonnets etc mostly using cellulose. Despite the low cost, the spray gun produces pretty good results.|
|you guys are tempting me, making it sound easy to quickly respray my frog. But I am sure its not that easy for a novice, let alone a dipstick like me!|
I was the one who raised the issue of getting a good quality paint job commensurate with the significant value of the car. But I wasn't saying that this cannot be achieved by doing the job yourself. Part of the story is also why you own the car and what motivates you personally.
If you enjoy learning skills, doing things yourself, persisting with something until you get a satisfactory result and don't stress overmuch when things don't go quite right, then give it a go. Buying the paint and consumables may cost a couple of hundred pounds and if the worst comes to the worst that, plus a lot of time and effort, is all that you risk. But you might just surprise yourself! If all goes wrong you would still have the cheque book option to put it right again.
If your interest is in driving a good looking classic and don't want to spend the summer working on the car, then pay a reputable professional and enjoy the special day when you go to collect the completed job.
|Guy is correct|
What I recommened to new car painters is get a few qts of mis mixed paint and have a go at the lawn mower, dog house, kids bike, trash cans ect.
That will give you some experiance with differant shapes and surfaces plus give a feel for the gun
Its like mig welding... you can read about it but you have to spend an hour with it actually doing it to really get a feel for it
|Prop and the Blackhole Midget|
|did this one myself, outside, in the summer.|
Pics have got no polish on, finish from the gun. Used a compressor with a 12l tank
did this one with the same gun, before the mini, in Feb in the cold. Wasn't so good, but it did polish up OK
|Rob's pics are all the proof needed, that it's well worth having a go yerself, and saving a lot of money to boot.|
|After my efforts,
|Bought one of the 3 gun HVLP sets from Germany on ebay, got hold of a decent compressor and did mine in a single garage. preparation is key as is practicing with the equipment.....|
|Rob, PB, Graeme - all AWESOME. Who wants to do mine :-)|
|Oh OK, my DIY attempt|
This finish straight from the gun
|Again - AWESOME!|
Although I'm really hung up on Graeme's. I just love the colour.
|As I already had the gun, the mini cost a shade over 100 quid to paint. midget was the same, but also done in one weekend (along with another car too!)|
|Some brilliant results. But I am just not sure. It's very tempting and the downside is small, but met up with a friend today who is a superb mechanic and says he would never try himself!|
Should it always be taken back to bear metal, or just cut back somewhat ?
As RSH says, if anyone wants to do mine.......
|As I was saying earlier. I think that although it appears that skill is required this isn't really the critical factor. The real "driver" is your attitude and personal level of commitment to being prepared to give it a go. To some, this working on your car yourself is more important than simply owning and driving it. No criticism is intended on those that don't do or have the confidence to try the DIY approacht. Its just that we are all different and have differen interests.|
|Graham, what's the downside?|
Have a crack at it, mate. Do a bit of research on the techniques on the net and go for it.
And listen to Prop. He knows paint.
Worst case is you f++k it up and you're back to square one - looking for a pro to sort it out. (Except for buying some cheap hardware that you can sell on).
My bet - with care you'll surprise yourself!
|and the compressor is bloody useful for all sorts of other things, tyres, air beds, air squirting things, exploding stuff, pressure testing things, air ratchets and sanders and all sorts of things that you buy 'because you've got one'|
Neither of the cars I did went back to metal (except for the bonnet on the midget). Far too much effort that; just a sand down and away we go. The painting is the easy bit; more than 90% of the effort is put into the prep: the better the prep the better the base to paint onto.
|I am so very tempted. Thanks for advice. I will have a good think. Is winter in an unheated garage a no, no?|
|Nope. Shouldn't be a no-no. The critical thing is dust, from what I remember when I use to help Dad with it.|
Block all the gaps round the doors and wet the floor. That's as I recall it, but I'm no expert. Last car I painted was a Mk3 Cortina and I did if matte black with a roller. You might not want to follow this procedure haha!
|graham, graham, graham. . . .come on fella, get off the fence and have a try :) if you want to see if you can do it, bring a panel to my place (Surrey) and I will show you what you need to do.|
We can either paint it the colour you want if you turn up with the paint or any colour I have kicking about if you just want to see if you can do it.
there you go, your invited. get out of that one !
|" The critical thing is dust, from what I remember when I use to help Dad with it. Block all the gaps round the doors and wet the floor"|
That's what struck me about Rob's mini, sprayed in the garden. How did you keep the insects/pollen/dust at bay?
And whilst on the subject of -- "Block all the gaps round the doors and wet the floor", --- what do you do to keep all the atomised paint and solvent out of your eyes, nose/lungs?
It's not the kind of thing that bothered me in the past, using celly. I just used goggles and a wet cloth wrapped around my face, or just held my breath in short bursts. But these days, a recent discovery about historical asbestos damage to my lungs, means that I'm going to have to be careful in the future. Bummer, I hate "elf and safety". lol.
So what's the easiest, cheapest head gear to buy, that lets you breath and see clearly whilst spraying celly.
Note: Celly, not 2 pack.
|on the subject of masks, I use one of these.http://www.brownbrothers.com/products/series-7000-half-mask-body-size-m|
|Masks - I used a gerson 2k face mask with replaceable filters off ebay. I also bought a decent hooded paint suit for around £15. Don't go for the paper ones sold at B&Q - they go fluffy and cause more problems than they solve.|
I spent a week cleaning out the garage and washing down the ceiling, walls and floor. Then I bought some cheap polythene sheeting and lined the ceiling and walls. I also hung a couple of yellow fly paper traps near the door - you can't be too careful.
|I didn't keep them at bay, some fell in and either got painted over or polished out. It was nice and warm so paint went off fast; I did shoot down a wasp at one point but he just spiralled into the floor.|
Masks available from screwfix etc, got a p3 one that does solvent vapours. Didn't bother with eye protection outside, but I might if doing inside.
Last time I sprayed mine, as I said, I was carefree. Now I already have damaged lungs, I have to be more careful. I fancy another 20 years afore I snuff it. lol.
| P Bentley:|
"graham, graham, graham. . . .come on fella, get off the fence and have a try - there you go, your invited. get out of that one !"
That a very kind offer - I'd love to meet up and have a bash. Could you mail me? gmv22 at hotmail dot co dot uk
Many thanks, Graham
I don't think you can paint in the winter in an unheated garage. Also, you will get fewer bugs in the paint if you shoot as early in the morning as possible.
|C R Huff|
|Graham - you are under some considerable pressure now, aren't you? |
I'd say, stop reading this thread and give yourself a week or so to run the options in your imagination. Make lists, get quotes, drink beer.
|Nick and Cherry Scoop|
|Good idea. Drinking beer is the very best option. And if I drink enough I won't be bothered about the paintwork!|
|Have a go - It's ages since I last did any but I'm looking forward to tackling the Sprite in the not too distant future. It might not come out perfect at the first attempt but, if you're rubbing down between coats, it won't be long before you're getting a result you're pleased with.|
If you don't want to lash out for a full set of kit you might be able to rent for a weekend.
You probably don't need to go back to bare metal but watch out for a reaction between the old and the new - 'pickling'. Do some tests before you go the whole hog, giving it a day or two to do whatever it's going to do - and talk to your paint supplier. You might need to start with some sort of sealing coat to prevent any reaction.
If you're doing it in the open or in a normal garage in the summer watch out for high humdity - cellulose can 'bloom' - it will only do it on your best and final coat when you're running low on paint!
Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
|Hi Graham, I mailed you, or at least I think I did ? but just in case I will try again.|
Thanks, I have now mailed you and explained why I didnt receive yours
|Charley is correct, painting in an unheated garage in the winter is not conducive to a good paint finish. The paint will bloom and look very flat.|
You will also probably get microblistering, due to moisture.
|Dave O'Neill 2|
And listen to Prop. He knows paint
Hahaha... oh good lord, Onno are you okay buddy I heard your nut sack pop all the way over here across the Atlantic.... even I have to admit, thats some bad advice
House paint, house paint !!! I know a thing or 2 about house paint.
But thanks for the vote of confidance ....its appreciated even if misplaced
|Prop and the Blackhole Midget|
|I've painted a few cars and the biggest headache for me has always been micro blistering. Cellulose needs to be painted above 15C with below 60% humidity and those combinations come only a handful of times a year.Outside of this the paint may look OK but will often pickle over time,as the moisture tries to get out - usually on the bonnet and boot lid. This is especially true if you wet sand the polyester fillers and initial primers as both are hygroscopic, and need force drying to evaporate out all the moisture they've absorbed. Additionally if you paint inside a garage and have used silicon spray,the stuff lingers and can drop onto surfaces causing fisheyes. Painting in a proper booth fixes all of these issues, no wuzzers, correct temp and humidity, ample space and wonderful lighting, as it's vital you're able to see the wet edge, but not pass too quickly or too slowly.Light colours are the easiest(most forgiving)to paint and dark colours the hardest,with metallic and clear more ambitious still,especially when you factor in rectification. On a Frogeye doing a thorough job will usually require removing the engine and detailing the engine bay too, and sorting out the bonnet seams externally and internally.|
If you get professional quotes make sure it's backed with a guarantee. If you do it yourself you'll need at least a 2HP/50 Ltr compressor and something like JGA gun with a 1 Litre pot. Big enough to do the bonnet and rear shroud in one go. Prep is the key, read 'How to Paint Classic Cars' and practice - a lot!
Here's my old banger with 18 yr old cellulose.
|Ooops Prop - I wonder where I got that idea? I had it in mind somehow you were a car painting guru too!|
Just been reading some interesting stuff on waterborne car paints. Apparently many car manufacturers use it now, in the US anyway, and of course it's all you can use in California. Seems to be good stuff, but it seems it needs clear coat afterwards if you want a real shine.
Only mentioned it because it's said to be less sensitive to humidity. Although another option would be to rent a dehumidifier for a few days
I knew a bloke who painted his van using water based gloss (house) paint and it looked good to me. I think he said he sprayed it, so I imagine he must have had to thin the paint a fair bit.
|Everything I've painted car wise was done with a 12L no-name chinese compressor with a small ish electric motor on it. I used the gun that came with it. A bigger one would have worked better, but only because you don't have to keep stopping all the time.|
I HATE silicone, it gets everywhere. Causes no end of upset with slumpy paint and general horridness.
The mini still looks good, the midget not so much. But to be fair to it, there was a frost on the night I sprayed it (that frosted onto the fresh paint on my friend's car) - do it when it's warm!
This thread was discussed between 01/06/2015 and 10/06/2015
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.