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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Rear Off Side Suspension

Whilst trying to remove an old rusty fuel tank from a 76 midget, a nut on the rear bracket (Part No 15 http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=1663 )was stopping the easy removal of the tank.

Rightly or wrongly I loosened the three bolts on the above rear bracket and the offending nut, this allowed the tank to be removed and the new one was fitted after a long struggle.

But now I am having trouble getting the last of the three bolts back into the suspension bracket, as it does not want to budge a few mm's my last option is to unbolt the rear spring to position the bracket easily.

But my worry is how difficult is it to get the rear spring back in to its housing (Part 20)

Yes no doubt there should have been no need to remove the offending part but the tank would not budge without its removal.

Is it straight forward to put the rear spring back if I remove the back fittings?
Tim Lynam

Some suggestions to get the ball rolling... starting with an obvious one...

1. Have you loosened the two bolts that you have managed to get in, in order to give you some wiggle room with the bracket?

2. Are the bolts on the tread and nut good? Running a tap into the captive nut is always a good bet.

3. Perhaps jacking the car up so the back wheels are off the ground (choc the front wheels!) therefore taking the weight of the suspension allowing it to wiggle a bit more.

Malcolm.
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Thanks Malcolm for the suggestions.

The two bolts that were in were loose, so I was concerned about the thread on the remaining bolt and have ordered some more along with other parts that are required, but just wondered if the thread is not at fault what the alternatives were and yes the car is jacked up and on axle stands.
Tim Lynam

if the nuts, bolts, threads weren't protected with Copper Ease, Waxoyl, grease, your choice, then personally I like to replace with new as an 'off' thread or rust build up can multiply the effort required to undo and re tighten

I also like to tighten in steps going diagonal a bit at at time to bed things evenly - but I'm not an engineer or mechanic and have little technical experience so could be wrong here

new, correct fixings, protected, using the correct tool to fix them should make the job easier this time and in the future

Nigel Atkins

You say the car is on stands. I am assuming the stands are under the back axle? Therefore the weight of the car will still be on the suspension.

If you could move the stands somewhere else, perhaps under the forward rear spring hangers.

Basically support the body so the weight of the axle is hanging off the springs. Rather than supporting the axle/wheels so the weight of the rest of the car is sat on top of the springs.

Mal.

Malcolm Le Chevalier

Malcolm, that's the reason I love this forum being new to classics, well not tinkered with cars since the late 70's, as when you have struggled with something you tend to miss the obvious, yes you have guessed right, the car is supported on axle stands on the back axle.

Oh well will try a new set of bolts as Nigel suggests as for a few pounds they are readily available and already ordered, but there is probably a kit somewhere of all the nuts and bolts that are handy to have when tinkering with an MG rather than searching everywhere for that one that always seems to disappear, as what happened replacing the fuel tank.
Tim Lynam

Tim move the stands to support the car on the front spring hanger letting the suspension hang free, then put in the bolts and lock them up tight. When your new bolts arrive replace them one at a time.
Thanks Ian
I Pickering

I may get shot for this but as I remember the bolts for this are 5/16 unf so if you have any metric M8 nuts and bolts these are ok to use. And it saves you waiting for the post to arrive.
Thanks Ian
I Pickering

Thanks for the guidance of where to support, still not 100% sure but hopefully will come clear once under the car again unless anyone has a link to photo of what the front spring hanger is? Sorry for showing ignorance, but learning every week!
Tim Lynam

It's worth buying a mixed bag of good quality unf nuts and bolts. I bought some for about £20 which included lock nuts as well as conventional. They are a god-send with this sort of work.

Going back to your specific problem, part no 20 (the link between the body bracket and the spring removes and refits without too much of a struggle. You might want to consider replacing the bushes while you are at it. The link passes through rubber bushes, but new ones can be so and so's to get in. May be next time!

The advantage of removing the link is that you can fit the body bracket without fighting against any components fitted to it.

When you refit the link it swivels so gives you a degree of flexibility to line it all up between the spring and the body bracket . However, expect to manipulate the jack under the middle of the spring to help with alignment.

I recently removed and refitted the back axle by dropping the springs from the rear end, so have gone through the same struggle as on one side the link had been fitted in reverse and the tank prevented its removal without dropping the body bracket.

BTW, formal advice is not to tighten up the link until the car is on its wheels again otherwish the supension may be high.
G Williams (Graeme)

Another point which may assist - it may make life easier if both ends of the axle are lifted together so the axle keeps square to the chassis. I wonder whether lifting one end and leaving the other dropped might cause the leaf spring to twist so throwing everything slightly out of line.'
G Williams (Graeme)

Tim,
a mixed bag of nuts, bolts (more likely set screws) and washers are fine for general stock but they usually never have enough of the popular sizes on the car so you run out of them quickly and are left with sizes you never use or Sod's Law one short to complete the job

you can buy sets for the whole car but they're for rebuilds, better for you is the smaller sets for something like the suspension

personally I hate to find mixed fittings as it could shows a previous lack of planning, desperation or can't be bothered

you also want the correct grade of bolt/set screw for the job, someone will say what it is for the suspension I can't remember but I don't think you want to use stainless steel on suspension

for the less common sizes just buying as require from someone where like MGOC spares works out to a reasonable price for them
Nigel Atkins

I've bought mixed sets and also lock nuts from Namrick. The "balance" on the mixed sets I found to be a good starting point. As specific sizes run down I just top up with more of that size. You can get through an awful lot on suspension rebuilds and the like.
G Williams (Graeme)

Thanks for everyone's comments, regarding the bolts they are so cheap via the internet and they should always be the right ones for the job ordering via the MG stockists and probably end up cheaper, than as I found yesterday trawling round different DIY stores looking for the right fittings is frustrating and ended up going home empty handed, yes I should no better, but on a Sunday what other options are there.

Also thanks to Graeme for the advice regarding the springs as I had visions of taking the bolts out, bits flying everywhere and requiring some special tool and a degree in engineering to replace correctly.

Better wait until a quiet weekend armed with a bag of new bolts, washers etc for petrol tank and suspension and no doubt everything will go back ok if plenty of spares are readily at hand.
Tim Lynam

Tim,
best to do all jobs (where you can) when the shops are open in case you need something - a number of times I've had to leave a job unfinished or call on mates for bits and bobs because the shops shut
Nigel Atkins

I agree - and am making plans to give up my day job for just that reason, Nigel. Plans are currently falling over because although I could then easily get to the shops for parts, I would be limited to bartering for said parts with home grown vegetables and a quick survey of most suppliers suggest they don't accept that form of payment :)
Philip Dodd

in the UK we're not as sensible as France as many shops are open until 6pm or 8pm or even later on a Saturday and until 4pm plus on a Sunday so you can get many jobs done, the problem is the ones that are still ongoing after even the extended shopping hours
Nigel Atkins

Blimey - I'm rarely home much before 8pm anyway O_o We don't have any useful pop-in shops for MG bits in my neck of the woods, so I might just keep the day job for a while...
Philip Dodd

Philip unless you like night driving it sounds like you should sell your Spridget or pay someone else to service it - 8pm finish would be part time for a couple of my mates - that's when they're not on their 3 or 4 weeks foreign holiday with their extended family or at their holiday accommodations in this country taking short breaks (never a mention of 8pm+ finish then) - simple economics the cost of anything is what give up to have it
Nigel Atkins

I probably should. But there isn't really anyone I trust. I don't trust myself, but when I mess it up on my own I don't get as wound up as I would if someone else messed it up.

I have issues - I know :)
Philip Dodd

I know where you're coming from, yeahhh
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, I bought the Midget after being made redundant for something to keep me busy so it was no problem doing jobs on the car in the week and then someone came along offering a job 74 miles away, so that ruined that idea!

So just left with Sundays to do bits on the Midget unless Philip finds away round the bartering issue.
Tim Lynam

in that case Tim, well done o getting another job, pity it isn't a bit nearer, so you can either pay someone else to do the work or work out how to get to the nearest relevant shop that remains open the latest on a Sunday

or prepare everything required in advance of doing the work, I have sheet of notes for that

of course now you've got a job again you could sell the Midget and by a MX-5 and go driving
Nigel Atkins

Nigel!

What's this thing you've got for MX5's I've noticed over a few threads during the last few weeks?

(Or is it that you are looking for another Midget and getting everyone to sell their's off?) :-)
Dave Squire

I had thought briefly about buying a modern two seater that would cope with 140 miles of daily motorway driving but if anything went wrong it would be off to a garage as no doubt they are un fixable for a novice and I bet there is no great forum with people willing to answer anything from the most basic questions as I ask, up to the most advanced questions that the more experienced MG owners request.

Back to the initial problem, received yesterday all the bolts, washers etc from Moss Europe to sort the problems out and requested a Midget Parts catalogue and was amazed at the quality and information within, only problem is I now need another job to pay for all the bits that I never knew were available.

Tim Lynam

Ah the MX5! The car might be crap but the handbook..... leather bound, beautifully translated from the original Japanese. It is indeed THE standard to uphold.
G Williams (Graeme)

Yes - but can you use it for packing when you need to jack up the MX5?
The way those back sills crumple from the inside out sometimes needs a higher jack.

(I'm sorry I can't help it, its the child hood humour comming out)
Dave Squire

Tim,
always cross reference any information you get from any source with another two sources if possible especially when on of the sources is Haynes or Moss

Dave, Graeme,
we had a MX-5 in 1999-2000, oh, the Handbook, you could tell the car was designed in America as it (almost) had things like don't put your head under the front wheel and let someone drive other it - at least a third of the book was silly safety warning, Lawrence would love it

whereas one of the cars I had before from a small British manufacturer I helped to update the Handbook :D

but I think the cleaning lady was consulted for the speed specs :(
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 03/02/2013 and 07/02/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.