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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - rear panels

Afternoon all!

We've been continuing to cut bodges out of our '76 rubber bumper and are currently working on the left rear wing. got most of the rot cut out of the lower quarters and the arches but it looks/feels like the previous 'restorer' had knocked the original wings in in order to attach a new lower half wing over the old one. so even once its all cut off I'm not convinced that a lower half will do it - think I'll end up having to do load of filling to get it nice. What are people's thoughts on the 'half wing + fill' option vs the whole wing option?
Secondly, had to cut patches, bodges & rust out of the area under the rear lights and so left with getting the rear valance edges fixed too. Given that there's a lot of curves in that area, I'm thinking we should go with a new rear valance and be done with it. Now that opens up the option of converting to chrome bumper while we're there (right hand rear wing will need done at some point too anyway and we've already ditched the rubber bumpers). Would it be easier to replace the whole rear valance or just the bits we need to replace. To give you some idea, the hole goes to the inner edge of the reinforcing 'square' on the rubber bumper valance. Anyone done this sort of wok before?

I'll try & get some photos up soon...

Thanks,
-Craig
C Robertson

Hi Craig are the wings ok above the sill.If not (they could be bodged to)i would replace both rear wings with the old square wheel arch ones and rear valance.If you do not want to replace whole valance just use end bit to join wing,will prob need inner wheel arch repair section as well.
Paul
pd cumbers

Bizarrely most of the inner is fine, need the end 6inches or so but no more, was expecting to need a half inner as well. As for the front above the sill, that's gotta go too, it was half the reason for the fix in the first place: last summer's sill replacement showed that they'd just bunged an new wing over the old one and twisted/fileld everything to fit. same with the A pillar too but sorted that now.

Thanks!
-Craig
C Robertson

Some people! could have done the job right,must have taken longer bodgeing it. I done this job on my brother car on sat.You will need lower wing section just cut off what you need.The bit above the sill will be harder as you cut back more than 2 inches from wheel arch you will see inside car by seat belt so don't set carpet on fire!You will need to use some sheet metal or some of repair panel to fill in behind repair,also you could make the repair part at back may take some time but worth it.You will need the lower wing repair panel above sill. Good luck Paul.
pd cumbers

OK, at home now so can upload pictures! This one shows the back of the car, shows how much of it I needed to cut out to get rid of rubbish! The other side of the rear valance looks much the same. Don't fancy trying to make a nice job of those compound curves so going to try & get a rear valance.
Am I best replacing the whole rear panel or just the two bottom corners?



C Robertson

... and this shows the side. So as you can see Paul, lower half is the least I can get away with! Doesn't really show up on this picture but the top seam had been knocked in, presumably to allow them to make a better job of the filling. Just wonder whether to join to the original top piece or to redo the whole side to save me having to do the big scary seam weld and then make good in filler afterwards!
As you say, why do people keep chasing a bodge out along the car - I am truely convinced this one would have been quicker to have done properly!
Thanks in advance for your ideas,
-Craig


C Robertson

Hi

First repair the rusty section on that inner web

It feeds the loads into the tub from the floor of the boot and equally from the back panel if there's a shunt.

And don't seam weld the whole length of the replacement try joddling the repair panel so it sits behind the older section and drill or punch (my joddler punches out suitably sized holes) holes that you can then fill with plug welds

These don't tend to distort as much as a seam weld and will work perfectly to hold the repair for ever

The picture shows my inner wing joint on the offside from when I fitted a pair of these back in about 1995

My plug welds are about an inch or so apart, rather aas if they were spot welds.

I always use Holts Metallic Filler on the car if I have to fill anything, a fine skim of this was enough to cover and smmoth over the joint outside.

Sanding and flatting soon lost the line of the seam

On my car the joint had the benefit of the additional chrome strip but didn't need it cosmetically, just for the right 1966 look. You can see the pop rivets along the seam.


bill sdgpm

I think Bill meant to use a joGGler such as this one
http://www.esska-tech.co.uk/cgi-bin/esska_eng/iboshop.cgi?showd13380,0,943070000612,,adsource=froogle
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Seems it is also called a joddler! well you live and learn. LOL
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

hi Craig
As they say: been there and seen that ! I ended up taking the inner wheel arch off, that silly boot corner section and the whole rear wing and B post as well. Seemed the only way. Don't be shy. Reach for the angle grinder and wade in. It's very cathartic and the only way to tackle the tin worm...
Let us know how you get on!

good luck!
David Cox

Hi Craig, looks like a new wing would be best and part of inner wheel arch. Not alot more metal to come off! Paul
pd cumbers

Thanks for the advice guys!

Bill, yes indeed, my plan is to patch up all the other bits, like that inner web, before getting on to the panels. Quite happy with what's required on that stuff so was thinking a step ahead.

Paul, DavidC, yep, getting there! As you say, something quite pelasing about finally coming up against real metal after hours of rust! Currently chasing the void from the inner reinforcing web around behind the wheel, again someone has plated on the outside without removing the old piece. So another hour of lying under the car grinding is on the cards!
Very pleased with the way the new boot extension fits though, finally a replacement panel that fits. In fairness to Ashley Hinton, that's not the panels' fault, more the previous bodgers!

I've seen several mentions of metalic filler on this board, would Isopon Metalik and U-Pol D be the sort of thing I'm looking for? I was interested to see on the U-POl website that they also make the Isopon stuff, its their retail branding. My local paintmonger does U-POL so will probably get it their but does anyone know if there's any actual difference between U-POl & Isopon branded stuff?

Cheers,
-Craig
C Robertson

I'm going through a similar process except on a RWA so half wing repair panels weren't on option. I've bought new rear wings and am in the process of cutting off the old ones. I've also had a rear panel on order since the start of may but BMH are being very slow making the pressing - worth considering if you're still thinking of replacing the whole panel. The MGB hive are hassling them regularly - current delivery estimate is the start of july.

Graeme
graeme jackson

Noticed Peter May has them - might be better as I think they aren't BMH
rachmacb

Rach,
Had a look at the Peter May website and can only see fibreglass panels mentioned?

Thanks for the warning, Graeme. I'll give the guy at Sussex a call as that's where I've got all the other panels from & can't fault them. If he has the same problems, I'll go the the Hive - maybe we can even combine delivery which I suspect will be horrific on that size of panels. Did you get your full wing panels from the hive too? Do you forsee any problems so far with the complete side replacements?

-C
C Robertson

Yes it does say Isopon on my latest tin of Metallic

If U-POL make a metallic too and you can get it "wholesale" go for it I say

Its greatest benefit is that not being talc based it does not absorb water as ordinary fillers do and stays stable for ever (NORMAL DISCLAIMERS FOR THIS OF COURSE, DONT WANT THE WEB COPS AFTER ME AGAIN) :(

And yes I was a tad tongue in cheek with the webwelding comment, I didn't think you would leave it! :)
bill sdgpm

Could be - was in the madness of middle of the night when I was looking ... and not really looking at panels - sorry.

If you can wait 'til after September (which I doubt you can ...), then my parents would bring your panels back from the behive to Selkirk
rachmacb

Who knows, it may be septembe by the time I actually get round to putting the new rear onto it! Currently in a mad dash to get someone's house decorated so they can move in and then the Festival hits which means most evenings and weekends I'll be either rigging or running shows. If only I got paid for that then the midget would be sorted!

Bill, I'd taken it as helpful advice, always tricky to gauge people's experience & engineering nouce online. I am tempted to drill a big hole into the repair plate to let me hose Waxoil in. After all, I do need to do something to put back some of the weight that I've taken out of the rear end by cutting out the pig iron in the wings! :o)

On the bright side, should get all this body work done this summer and the engine spruced up (new gearbox and a bottom end rebuild at Mark Boldry's suggestion) and then we're set for Midget50!

Picture from a year ago - just to prove she isn't as bad as I'm probably making it sound! Gotta love that A in the background - beautiful car.

-C


C Robertson

Hi Craig

I have the same problem with the rear nearside wing though luckily the back valance is not too bad..

I also have thasmall panel the goes between the boot floor and the rear wing to fit..
When i chopped the rot out, the wing popped in so it looks as though i mah have to weld some nails onto the wing so that i can pull it back out and fix it to a jig before i fit the new bottom..



John


j b biggs

Here's a pic with the rear panel dry fitted, there's plenty more to cut out yet before the wing will be welded in..

John..


j b biggs

A little closer..


John..


j b biggs

Some other cutouts and bits that have been cleaned for work doing..



John..


j b biggs

>>>>>>>>>>rachmacb, Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom

Could be - was in the madness of middle of the night when I was looking ... and not really looking at panels - sorry.<<<<<<<<<<


That sounds kinky, was my name screamed out vary often?

Prop.... Oh yeah I for got! Mr. laytex mark has all the fun!
Prop

Craig - the biggest problem I foresee is going to be welding along the flange from the top of the rear light cluster inside the boot. There's not much space to get at it once you get near the rear cockpit rail.

Graeme
graeme jackson

LOL Prop - yeah - I was having nightmares due to the heat :P!!!!!!!!!
rachmacb

Thanks for those pictures John- I'll have a good look at those.
Graeme, that does look to be troublesome. I've heard that one way to do it is to weld from the outsid, grid it flat & then braze/plug the beading on top, after cutting off the tail, naturally. Sounds feasible...

-C
C Robertson

The new wings come with the beading already welded in place but I know what you mean; I think porter brazes the new beading on in his restoration book. I think I'm just going to have to get several more joints installed in my arms :-)

Graeme
graeme jackson

This thread was discussed between 21/06/2010 and 24/06/2010

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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