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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Rear wheel hub studs
Ive just completed the refurb project on my 1970 midget, and as part of the project Ive added a set of minilite style wheels, and this is where my problem begins...
Basically the studs at the rear seem to be a tad to short in length to give me confidence that the wheels will remain secure, and so to add to this, I have heavily handed over torqued one of the wheel nuts and have successfully stripped a stud.
I dont see a problem in replacing the studs, but Id like to go with a larger stud, as opposed to a standard. Has anyone else suffered the same problem, and if so do you have any info that I may use?
Thanks in advance.
|Mike, there are numerous threads in the archives, and as it happens I was just looking at this one:|
I am this minute doing the same calculation, having found that my Minators only allow 6 turns to tighten, which is not enough.
|L B Rose|
|I, and several others, have experienced this problem.
There will be some threads in the archives.
I found that both front and rear studs were too short. As the rear studs are longer, I moved them to the front and bought new, longer rears for a Mini. Obviously, if your rears have been over-torqued, I wouldn't want to use them on the front.
I can't remember the length of the standard rear studs, but there are several available for Minis.
I'd be interested to know who supplied the wheels and why they didn't warn you of a possible problem.
EDIT: Les beat me to it.
|Dave O'Neill 2|
|My Minators came from MGB Hive. They also supplied the nuts, and said not a word about studs. That was about 10 years ago, and somehow the wheels survived several track days.|
|L B Rose|
|You need to get your nuts modified as shown in the picture.
|I agree about the need to fit longer studs on the rear. You might find that the front is OK.
I switch between steel for the road and Minilites for the track and hit a problem when fitting the steel wheels. Due to the length of the unthreaded shank, the thread on the studs was not long enough and was nowhere near clamping the wheels.
I got round the problem by fitting spacers. I bought a set of wheel nuts to ensure I had the correct taper profile and drilled them out to give a sliding fit on the studs. Then a neighbour turned them down to 10mm thickness.
The normal wheel nut then goes on backwards to give a flat mating surface with the spacer.
They look a bit ungainly, but that's why you have hub caps to hide them!
One query that the engineers might be able to answer: When torquing up, if the socket holds both nut and spacer, the 45 LbFt is reached much sooner than if I just torque the wheel nut on its own. Does the 45 LfFt figure take account of friction between the wheel and nut? Should I include the spacer when tightening or should I just have the socket on the nut so that the spacer acts as a washer?
|Colin, canít help you with the torque question (I never bother!) but Iím impressed with your spacer idea, might give that a go!|
Mike, canít to see the car - hopefully youíll be able to bring it in before we finish at work!
|Cheers guys, I canít thank you enough, and am a lot clearer in the direction I will be taking. Hopefully Iíll shortly have this last problem put to bed. Incidentally, I bought the wheels from Watford Classic Cars, who never cared to mention any problems such as my first, which was after having them balanced, I found the weights interfered with the track rod end exposed thread.... after explaining my situation, the local garage re-balanced for free.
Iíll have her in work next month John, sheís been an expensive project but due to her condition itís been worth it.
Let us know what you decide to do.
|Dave O'Neill 2|
|Good news Mike, canít wait to see it again. Let me know when you plan to bring it in and Iíll come in my Mk1. You might think yours has been expensive but I could bring you in a pile of receipts that I guarantee will trump yours!!|
Check with Watford Classic which wheel nuts you need to use as there can be at least three alternatives. The Minaturs wheels I got from MGOC use the standard Rostyle wheel nuts, but most don't. My wheels from MGOC, one of the biggest specialist MG suppliers also had the stick-on weights positioned to catch the the TREs. I fitted the wheels just after doing some brake work so when I pulled off and heard the clatter I immediately reversed back home to see what was wrong fearing the brakes so like you I was royally pissed-off to find it was just careless positioning.
For wheel nut torque which is very low at 44-46lbs/ft and lots of other stuff the owner and driver need to know get yourself the relevant Driver's Handbook (Operators Manual) you can get new combined reprint covering your model. If you then read it and refer to it you'll soon know more about the car than many long term owners.
You can then tell John what page the wheel nut torque info is on. 😁
|Ha! Nigel, don't worry, I've got my own collection of handbooks to read!!|
I've got quite a few early ones for my Mk1 but to be honest the one I have for the later 1970 Sprite is just a photocopy. I must get myself a decent original at some point.
a photocopy !!!!!
The one I put up is a combined reprint and covers 1970 model - Ref: 0057 - MIDGET MK III (GAN 5) HANDBOOK (1275cc) - https://www.mgownersclubstore.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html
Unless you've got a concours or severely modified car with just a few years out of 13 I could probably show you bills that'd make your eyes water and my car looks below average. I've not kept all my bills to prevent me always being in tears. 😥
|Sometimes it's better not to know. My rear hubs have 43mm studs, which should be OK, but I just found that there is considerable variation between studs on the same hub. They are all the same length, but some need 10 turns to torque up and others only 7. Must be the wheel holes that vary. The front studs are 35mm and are not long enough. Does anyone know the correct lengths of standard studs?|
|L B Rose|
|I've just measured some standard rear studs. They were 42mm total length, including the head. Wire-wheel rear studs were 32mm. I don't have any front studs to hand.|
|Dave O'Neill 2|
I shall just buy a set of rears and put them on the front, which I think others have done.
|L B Rose|
|Hi Dave, |
Thanks you for your mini spares tip off, as I have this afternoon installed Pt/ No 21A2064L to my rear hub, and the wheel nuts now have 17 turns as opposed to the puny six with standard studs. I shall move on to the front hubs at some point next week
Just be aware that you may have to remove the front hubs and disc to replace the studs, it depends on what discs you have. Some have a more square centre which allows the studs to clear the disc hub, ones with a round centre won't allow the head of the studs to clear the disc hub.
This thread was discussed between 26/04/2021 and 30/04/2021
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.