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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - rear wing beading

I'm replacing both rear wings as part of my ongoing restoration. The problem I have at the minute is that it's impossible to access the first 18 inches or so of the flange to do any welding so I'm thinking of cutting off the beading and running a seam the full length of the wing instead of trying to figure out some way of plug welding from the inside.
Has anyone else had this issue? I'm wondering if the car will look odd once it's painted if it doesn't have this beading. (I must state at this point that I'm not going for originality here). I'm also more than a little concerned that this may affect the strength if the ear end.
If anyone else has done this can they post pics please?

Graeme
graeme jackson

Graeme
I've done this on a spare shell I'm building up. I did it for looks mainly, as my normal midget has them on. I'll see if I can get some pics tonight.
I can't see how it would weaken the rear end. A seam weld would strengthen it if anything.
Matt
Tarquin

Graeme. I did it on my '65 Sprite, but I don't have any pics of it being done.
You can buy the beading from Moss. When you get it you'll see that it has a "T" section. So, you cut and grind off your old beading and thoroughly clean the joint between the wing and rear shroud. It won't affect the strength of the car as the wing and shroud are spot welded at the factory and you will not be interfering with this weld. Now cut off the upright section of the T shaped new beading which leaves you with just the top part. This is now soldered and brazed along the top of the wing/shroud joint then cleaned up.
If you can get hold of a copy of Lindsay Porter's "Midget and Sprite Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration" it is fully covered on page 94/96. It's a good book to have anyway if you're going to be doing alot of work on your car.
Hope this helps.

Bernie.
b higginson

Are you doing a RWA or a SWA?

This thread has my attn. As Im wanting to (Eventually... as in NO time soon) I want to convert from SWA to RWA... Ive got the panals for both inside and outside, but wow, thats going to be alot of work

BUT I was in tractor supply store yesterday and found they sell various sizes and shapes of trailer fender wells at cheap prices and nice quality several looked like they would fit easily... Im thinking welding the trailer fender wells to the outer RWA skin with a flare then form the whole assembly into the car WELL BELOW the bead and weld it in via the rear boot area...just do a little recess bend in the quarter panal so the new RWA panal slips right in and can be epoxied or welded in with out aot of body filler, so the 2 differant surfaces are level with each other...


It sounds easy enough but Is it really that do-able Im hoping Im adding to the conversation and not taking away. If Im mudding the water on this one, let me know And ill sit in the childrens seat on this one

Prop... children seen and not heard

Sorry you will have to type in trailer wheel wells in the search box

http://www.tractorsupply.com
Prop

okay I ran out of time to make a correction

Type in "Trailer Fenders" in the search box on the tractor supply store website

BTW..i think the ones with the backwall would be a good choice as it would be (Maybe/hopefully) easier to install and give better options to weld and secure onto...just thinking out loud basically adds to the unibody of the car
Prop

a photo...as an example


Prop

Prop. If you have the inner wheel arch panels then I'd just use those. As you can see from the attached photo, removing the inner arch should just be a case of drilling through 20 or so spot welds around the edge and maybe cutting through some small fillets. However, if they're the BMH panels you can be sure they won't fit without alot of fettling. the MGBhive put me off buying new inner arches as they're so badly made. Luckily I've only had to cut out a few small sections to patch them up.

Bernie. I have porters book and what he does just seems to be too much faff so I think I'm going to leave the bead off and fill the join for a nice smooth finish.




graeme jackson

greame,

Thanks for that photo... that helps alot for my situation, I got mine off ebay for $50...I know what an incrediblae find.

the draw back the inner arches got mangled up good on removal, I figured I could work a little magic for that price, but after seeing your photo and seeing how much is missing on my inner arches... i may want to continue down the path of the trailer fenders

here is a photo


Prop

and a photo of the outside panal...maybe rough, but for what Just the outside rounds panal goes for stateside and I only paid $50 for ...Im happy

Prop


Prop

Still keen to see Tarquin's pics.
graeme jackson

I'd like to see Tarq's pics too, as I've got the same idea on for a future update. (trust prop to take off on a tangent.)

:)
C
Chris Edwards

The rear wing beading on mine was badly rusted and I replaced it using the method that Bernie describes- cutting off the stem of the "T" and just fitting the beading to the top surface.

I cleaned out the top of the seam, ran some lead into it, then re-heated it until he lead softened and pressed the beading down in to it as I went along. I then wiped along the beading with a cloth to remove the excess and seal the edges. That was around 1994 and it has lasted perfectly since then. I remember being wary of attempting this but it was actually very quick and simple.

Guy
Guy Weller

Reactivation.

Guy, do you think an adaption of your method would repair my rear wing bead? I'd like to avoid having to cut it off completely if possible. Luckily only this side is bad.




Lawrence Slater

Lawrence, a Sharp, thin bladed wood chisel will slice the old bead off very quickly. Then run a slitting disc down the joint to clean it out before adding you new wing and running a weld bead down the first few inches from the top. Further down its easy to get at the flange from underneath. Then either fill flush for a bead- free finish, or follow the earlier instructions if you want to keep it looking original.
Guy Weller

My car is bead free but it was done by the PO. It only looks different when its parked next to a car with them. In some ways it's an advantage, the bead can cause paint to crack and allow water in so the rust starts again.

I wouldn't remove them from a mint car or a Mk1 or 2 with the longer rear deck but It looks ok on the shorter rear wings.
john payne

Cheers Guy.

John. Do you have a pic of your bead free wings? Maybe I'll go that route.
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence, sorry but not got one of that area. It's Carcooned at the moment so not easy to get to either!
john payne

No problem. I'm sure I can find one online somewhere.
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence .
You can just about make out the lack of beading on this pic..




graeme jackson

Ah yes. Very nice. I might just do that then. Makes you wonder why they had a seam bead in the first place.
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,

I would have guessed that the seam bead provided a cheaper solution to getting a clean finish at the join as without it you'd be looking at lead loading the join and dressing it back to provide a clean finish.
David Billington

Probably right David. Bead seams like this occur on a lot of BMC (and predecessor companies) both as metal beads between welds but also as rubber beads that look very similar, when wings were usually bolted on in earlier times. I think it is a detail left over from coachbuilding days.
Guy Weller

Only found this thread last evening. I collected my car from Chris Leverett Classics, in Blackwell near Bristol today after new sills and wings all round and a respray in Blaze. I opted to fit the rear wings without the beading as it allowed Chris to get a proper weld to the shroud panels so there will be no more panel movement and paint cracking. I think it looks much neater but I am not interested in originality, driving pleasure is more my scene. Neil


Neil Farnfield

and here's another photo. Hope these are useful for the undecided. Neil


Neil Farnfield

Looks very nice. I may do it.

I like that colour too. By coincidence, I have a drivers door and a boot lid in perfect condition in exactly that colour. I've been thinking of doing the Midget that colour. Very 70's.




Lawrence Slater

Is that BLVC16?
Lawrence Slater

yes, almost certainly Blaze Lawrence, a wonderful colour IMO (both mine are)
David Smith

Is there no "stick-on" solution to this. I've often wondered if the stick-on lead for leading windows might be used but I'm not sure the glue would stick for long.

Is there no modern glue that can be used to stick the genuine beading down after cutting of the flange bit?

I've researched this on the net a couple of years ago spending many hours at work (it was a slack period) surfing forums for a good solution. The closest I got was finding a forum entry from 7 or 8 years ago where a guy said he had found the ideal solution but the poster never wrote what it was or where he found it. I gave up at that point.

Rob

Rob aka MG Moneypit

Yes have done it using gorilla grip. Seems pretty secure.
Tim
T Dafforn

I am pleased that you like the colour, I haven't seen too many Blaze Midgets and I thought it had slipped down the popular colours list. My car was originally restored in 1993 by Roger North and painted in an orange which was slightly redder than Blaze it may have been an old F**d colour I couldn't match it so opted for the proper MG colour. Neil
Neil Farnfield

Tim, did you glue metal to metal then spray? or metal onto already painted wings then touch-up?

I owned a Blaze RWD many years ago (2nd or 3rd owner) which is still on the road somewhere according to DVLA. LXC195L if anyone knows it or know who owns it. I have a hankering to buy it back.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

just reading Safety Fast! and good to see what look like no less than four Blaze Midgets at the Aldon rolling road day
:-)
David Smith

I fixed the beading when the car was "bare metal". Then ha the car sprayed.
Cheers
Tim
T Dafforn

Rob. How many Spridgets do you want? The front of your house will look like a car pitch soon. LOL.
If you like, I'll paint my project car Blaze and you can buy that!

BTW. I brazed my beading onto bare metal, then a little filler along the edges, then painted the whole car. Seven years on it's still OK.

Bernie.
b higginson

I "lead loaded" the groove between the wing and rear shroud flanges, then reheated it with a blow torch and pressed the (truncated) wing bead down into the softened metal with wooden blocks until the lead cooled. That was 18 years ago and it is still fine. The lead seals the joint from the air and moisture and delays further rusting down in the seam.
Guy Weller

This thread was discussed between 06/09/2010 and 24/12/2013

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