MG-Cars.com
MG Midget and Sprite Technical Refurbishing rear springs BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
MG-Cars.net
Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.
Recommendations
Parts
MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.
|
|
MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Refurbishing rear springs
| Well, this is weird. I posted this question the other day, and now the thread is just gone. Ah well, here we go again. I'd like to rebuild my rear springs during the off-season by disassembling them, stripping and painting, reassembling them with plastic liners like these... http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/2079,365_Spring-Liners-with-Lip.html ...and then reinstalling with new U-bolts and related hardware, as well as new pads. The question is, what's the best paint to use for springs? Thanks! -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| Black? ;) |
| Trevor-Jessie |
| I used "hardnose" paint from the POR range. Note that, it will take about 5 days to dry properly and you'll have to do it inside or it will bubble in the dew |
| Will Munns |
| I used Eastwoods "Rust encapsulator" |
| Trevor-Jessie |
| >>> I used Eastwoods "Rust encapsulator" <<< So it's flexible enough to work with springs? -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| Gryf, IIRC there exists a "flex agent" used to make paint more flexible when painting rubber bumpers, etc. Not sure what kind of paint it is for, etc, just a thought. Another thought. Adding the liners might make a difference in the stack height of your springs. You might need a different length of u-bolt. Is there any way to check in advance? Probably not. Since you are doing it over the winter, you might want to do the stripping and painting work, try re-assembling with the old u-bolts and then determine whether to buy longer ones to replace them? David "once bitten..." Lieb |
| David Lieb |
| Hey gryf, What about hammerite...not sure how flex it is....the one issue I would have using the linners would be trapping moisture and creating rust...Id also use the red neophrene bushings instead of the reg. rubber....Im amazed how bad mine has gotten and I just replaced all that about 5 years ago.... just curious...had you considard using the liquid tool grip stuff...you dip your hand tools in it and it makes a rubber grip.... prop |
| Prop |
| these are lined as you can see it hasn't helped anything yes that IS daylight across the car 14 month old rubbish (not the car!)  |
| Bill |
| Is rust encapsulator flexible enough to work with springs? I don't know how long it will last, but it was used on my car with no problems for about 3 years before I changed springs. Honestly, I think rustoleum applied with a brush would be fine for the job. Spray from a spray bomb would look neater, but you might have a hard time getting a thick enough coat. |
| Trevor-Jessie |
| another problem with modern repro springs appears to be the clips / straps that hold the leaves together, they are often not formed or pressed closely to the spring profile, and seem to be of softer steel, so they gradually open out under load and become loose. |
| David Smith |
| Thanks for the pic Bill, Sad to see, but nice to know what the end effect will result in. prop |
| Prop |
| I have no plans to replace the springs, just rebuild them, so reservations about new springs don't apply. The originals are working well, and the ride height is fine. I just want to freshen them up. >>> Honestly, I think rustoleum applied with a brush would be fine for the job. Spray from a spray bomb would look neater, but you might have a hard time getting a thick enough coat. <<< Yeah, I think I agree. I was going to go with rattle cans, but I'm a pretty fair hand with a brush, and am not averse to doing it the old-fashioned way. ;-) -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| You will likely need at least some new clips/straps, however. |
| David Lieb |
| Is there a source for the clips - I'm using zipties. Also I added a thin sheet of nylon (0.5mm?) it makes almost no diffrence to the hight, but the spring is less harsh |
| Will Munns |
| I dont know Gryf, When I see your car next and crawl up undernieth the back axle and I see brush strokes on the edges of your leaf springs. I dont know gryf...It would be almost impossiable for me to still apprecate your car....LOL..HAHAHA prop |
| Prop |
| I like the Rustoleum 'Industrial' line of paints in rattle-cans from Home Depot. I use a lot of thier black and especially like the "stainless steel" color. I think it'd be fine on springs. M |
| Marc Judson (2- 1978's) |
| Bill, your springs are looking rather unhealthy. They too will look like mine: According to my (82 year old!!) leafspring-specialist the newones are crap because: - the steel isnt hardened by heat(900celcius) enough/att all. after that they suppose to cool it down and warm it up again to 450celcius and give them an oil treatment and the right sape/bend(= tension) - The clips are absolute rubbish to him, he makes clips that are thightend by boltswhich go thrue special copper? bushes. He warnes to not throw away any leafsprings old or new. My old(1975 originals) he says dont need hardening just new clips to put the whole leafspring under the wanted strenght again. The new ones just hardening and new clips. He cant make new ones any more because if he wanted new metal strips of the right with(38.5mm) he can only order a ton of metall at once which is a bit to much especialy with nowadays metalprices. So save the new-crap ones as its not shure when proper new ones will/are being produced again!!!  |
| Arie de Best |
| At least your leaves are touching each other even if they are sh***y The trouble is there seems to be a lack of technical expertise across the whole range of engineering in these days of CNC "stuff", the computer knows "all" The knowlege is there the know-how isn't I realise this is an exaggeration but I feel it isn't such a huge exaggeration from my own experiences... |
| Bill |
| For the reasons mentioned above I wonder if I should recondition the old 1/4 elliptic springs for my 61 midget. They had sagged, so I replaced them with new ones years ago before I took the car off the road to rebuild it, and the new ones sagged visibly within a few hundred miles! The old ones have a much larger number of leaves than the new "heavy duty" ones. I think I have found a company that are capable of doing the job, but I suppose I will need some kind of data to tell them what should be done? Tore |
| Tore |
| My new leaf springs!!! Ofcourse as theiy are not under the car yet i cant say thei are brilliant but they look very promissing. Image: new clips  |
| Arie de Best |
| That should be "they" and not "new" but "reconditioned" . Another shot:  |
| Arie de Best |
| ready to put on the car on saturday, then i still have to replace the flat battery... Tore, getting the proper info is indeed a big part of the problem. My "man" has being doing this for 70 years!!! and has kept his own records of all the springs he ever made and has many sheets with cardata of cars ive never ever heard of before. His, coverd in grease, note books are a real treasure as it cant be found in any computer. Thats the problem nowadays, if we the computer cant tell we dont know anymore... sad realy to see somuch knowledge/craftmanship getting lost. With all our GPS/computer technoligy we still cant build the pyramides as presicely as the egyptians/Inca's... go figure!  |
| Arie de Best |
| Shock horror, Arie is introducing metrication the the spridget via the rear leaf spring leaf clamps. |
| David Billington |
| David, thats only the beginning... :-) |
| Arie de Best |
| >>> I like the Rustoleum 'Industrial' line of paints in rattle-cans from Home Depot. I use a lot of thier black and especially like the "stainless steel" color. I think it'd be fine on springs. M <<< Thanks, Marc. That's the kind of stuff I was hoping for. I'll make a note and see what I can find! -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| Bill Your comment IS NOT an exaggeration but a proven stated fact...We ARE losig our craftsman and the knowledge they possess, in all areas, the idea that there is still someone out there at 82 that knows how to "anneal" and harden metal with a forge...Is a rare occerqance, I consider myslf fortnate to have had an elderly metal shop theacher almost 30 years ago that thaught our class the basics of foundry and forge work,,,it was sad that my school sold off most of the metal shop class tools, because there where no avialable teachers that knew how to use the stuff 10 years after Mr. potter retired and sortly after passed away....now they read theory out of a text book, and never get dirty, let alone godforbid a small cut from sheet metal...can you imagine the law suits and excessive insurance rates that would ensue. it really is sad, and we all pay the price for lost knowledge that was handed down from generation to generation prop |
| Prop |
| Gryf, I used POR-15 black on my springs after a simple cleaning with a wire brush. It seems to have held up fine. The springs are 39 years old, never been re-curved or taken apart. And yes, as David suggested, I'm missing a few spring clamps. Still looking for those! If the ride height is good and the springs still have their shape, I'd just treat them with POR-15 and new neoprene bushings. |
| B C Hamper |
Here's a picture of the springs in there current state - one summer of driving! They were installed in January 2008. You can see the missing spring clip on the left. Anyone got an extra?
 |
| B C Hamper |
| What in the world are you guys doing with the spring clips.... They Arnt made from chocolate, are they???, I guess Ill have to have a look and see if mine are still intact. prop |
| Prop |
| >>> If the ride height is good and the springs still have their shape, I'd just treat them with POR-15 and new neoprene bushings. <<< Yeah, that's pretty much what I have in mind. The springs are fine, I just want to keep them that way, and help them work a bit more efficiently. I already have poly bushes at the shackles, but I want to use poly for the spring pads too, in addition to putting the plastic liners in. I have new bushes for the front eyes too. -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| Gryf, I seriously doubt that you will see a difference with poly at the front of the springs. Those are metal tubes with a minimal amount of rubber and they do not move much nor have much give. OTOH, they are a pain to remove. I would probably pull the plates, check for excess movement and then ignore. If they had noticeable play, I would use the poly bushes rather than replacing them with originals, but I would not replace them just for the sake of doing it. Having said that, I must confess that I did replace mine with poly bushes. Wasn't worth the effort. David "full poly" Lieb |
| David Lieb |
| I vaguely have to disagree with you david, I installed all new rubber 5-6 years ago, (Not poly) and Im shocked by the amount of deteration the orginal rubber has taken on....it appears its going to be another suspension rebuild with new ploy in the mid-near future. My advice gryf...go the poly, my not effect performance but the life span will be worth it. prop |
| Prop |
| >>> I seriously doubt that you will see a difference with poly at the front of the springs. <<< Actually, the new bushes I have for the front eyes aren't poly - just the standard rubber type. Agreed, there's so little compliance there that poly, if it's available, wouldn't make much of a difference. What I meant was that I already have poly at the rear shackles, and I want to use poly for the spring pads as well. At the same time, I'll replace the front bushes with the standard ones I already have. (I ordered a set years ago, but could never get the old ones undone. The old ones were still in good shape, apparently, so I left them in. But if I take everything apart to strip and paint, I'll try again to replace them, since I already have the parts.) -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| Gryf and others, Gryf, that site you gave at the beginning of this post has stainless spring clips available, pt# 91033201 a little pricey though but they look like the improved version that Arie has on his springs Mike |
| MK Mike |
| Prop, I agree with you about the other bushes like the shackles, the wishbones, and the georges, but the front springeye of the leaf springs is different. I believe they call that "metelastic" or some such term. It is NOT a mere rubber bush or even a rubber bush with a sleeve inside. Rather, it is like a metal sleeve coated in rubber. If anything, it is less forgiving than the poly. As I said, my Midget is full poly (except the front upper trunnions which are nylatron with adjustable camber). Gryf, You will need at least a vise and preferably a hydraulic press to remove them. Probably best to wander over to John's with them rather than have to invent new forms of profanity on your own. David "autocrossing on Saturday" Lieb |
| David Lieb |
| I took mine out quite easily with two deep sockets of suitable "size" and a length of long bolt (I think it was a Triumph Dolomite 1859 head bolt) with a nut in the vise easier than I had anticipated [we are talking front bush, rear springs right?] However there is no noticeable deterioration and if I can get the older springs reheat treated I would re-use the bushes quite happily |
| Bill |
| >>> [we are talking front bush, rear springs right?] <<< We are indeed. >>> I took mine out quite easily with two deep sockets of suitable "size" and a length of long bolt <<< I'd probably follow a similar approach - that, or sockets plus a good smiting with a lump hammer... but again, unless they're obviously worn, I may just leave them be. David's right, they aren't really "bushes" as such. There's no real rotation there, just a flexing of the rubber sleeve. -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| And: they really do seem to hold up. I just did 2 MGB rear suspensions and the bushes on both cars looked fine. I ended up removing them nad changing them bedcause I had already purchased the poly ones. Even the original eye bushes on my 1/4 eliptic Sprite were still in good condition. Took them to a spring shop to have the old ones pressed out, the spring guy said not to bothor they looked fine. Mike |
| MK Mike |
| If I wasnt considering getting my older ones "reset" I wouldnt bother taking the bushes out being at the fixed end of the spring they only flex not rotate, as said before 900º then 450º when reset must get the old blowlamp out |
| Bill |
This thread was discussed between 29/09/2008 and 03/10/2008
MG Midget and Sprite Technical index
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.