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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - replacing rear wing beads

Hi All,
Just getting going on my '70 midget resurrection..
quick question, how easy is it to replace the beads on the top of the wings?
cheers
tim
T Dafforn

Tim. Strange that you should mention that.... I only yesterday came across a short length of replacement beading and wondered if it is still available.

The best way of replacing it is to soft solder it in position, this way, you can seal the joint and fettle easily the excess (if any). It makes a neat job.

Mark.
M T Boldry

Tim,
I posted much the same question a couple of days ago, but got no replies.

I have, in the past, done a repair / replacement job with wing beading. On that occasion the wings were pretty sound and it was just the beading itself which needed doing. I chiselled the old one off and cleaned out something of a groove between the wing and the rear shroud panel. I then cut off almost all of the "stem" of the T shaped beading (which is still available) and used solder / lead loading to fix it in position. Finishing off with a smear of filler along the edges to seal the joint before painting. That job has lasted pretty well for well over 10 years. The method is described in detail in the Lindsey Porter / Haynes "Guide to Purchase and Restoration - Midget & Sprite.

My question this time is that I am replacing the complete beading between wing and shroud - not just doing a repair. The thing needs to curve to match the wing and I am not sure how best to do this without kinking it. Should I make lots of little cuts in the "stem" part to allow it to curve or will it stretch into position? And do I weld it to one flange of the joint first or try clamping the 3 pieces together and then spot weld? Anyone done this successfully?

Guy
Guy Weller

It gets real difficult towards the front of the car. I managed to spot weld most of mine, but the front end got put together with stikaflex. 4 years on - no problems, even in our extreme climate.
Shawn

How do the guys at BMH do this? Maybe worth a visit(well defo worth a visit!!).

A
Anthony Cutler

Guy, I would highly recommend the purchase of a stretcher / shrinker, Frost sell them. It's a tool that once you have used one, you'll never want to be without one.... Absolutely perfect for the job!

Mark.
M T Boldry

Hi All,
Thanks for the info, have the haynes restoration manual..
the bit I am least familiar with is the soldering.
My only experience of soldering is with stain glass.. I am guessing it is a similar process? Do you use a torch rather than an iron? I also notice it mentions tining..
Whats this?
Cheers
tim
T Dafforn

Nice idea Mark, but at £400 not one for me - I am afraid I couldn't justify that.
Guy Weller

I was told by my paintshop that the factory have one sided spot welders.
Shawn

>>> I also notice it mentions tining.. Whats this? <<<

Wouldn't mean "tinning," would it? As I understand it, that's melting solder so it coats the tip of the iron before actually attempting to solder a joint or connection.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

I think in this context it means tinning of the wing area prior to soldering the bead in position. The process is to clean the metal along the wing joint ready to receive the beading. Then, using a flux to chemically clean the metal, run solder into the joint, coating the cleaned metal surfaces, which are then "tinned" The wing bead is then pressed into the solder which is re-heated to soften and more solder is fed into the joint. You then work along the beading, pressing it into the joint with something like a wooden push-stick and heating the localised area as one goes. The trick is to move forward at the right speed so that the solder cools and hardens on the piece just done as one moves along the line of the bead.

Guy
Guy Weller

What sort of solder and flux do you use for steel?
Cheers
tim
T Dafforn

Why not just weld it and grind it smooth, like you do when you repair all other parts of the car? Seems like it would look better with a smooth finish rather than the standing seam. Why did they solder that joint in the first place?

Jack
Jack Orkin

Jack,
The original design is a T - shaped piece with the stem of the T sandwiched between the flanges of the wing and rear deck, and then spot welded together. I don't know if solder was used originally unless as a filler to keep water out of the joint. Spot welding wouldn't have kept water out, whilst running molten lead into the seam very effectively seals it.

I think they just look "wrong" when de-seamed and smooth. It just makes it look like a plastic repair panel then.
Guy Weller

There's a Sprite in Brisbane without beading and although he did an excellent job of it, it just looks strange.
That said, I've never understood the design reasoning behind using beading.
Mike Allen

When Heritage build the shells welding access is fairly easy as they build the rear skin as a unit and drop over the tub - see pic.

When soldering this type of joint it is best to tin both surfaces first - this ensures the fluxes have cleaned and completely coated the contact surfaces with a thin coat of solder.
Then when bringing the surfaces together only a small addition of solder fills any remaing voids etc.

As Ant has noted a visit to Heritage is a fantastic experience - I want to go again.


richard boobier

This thread was discussed between 25/08/2009 and 26/08/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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