MG Midget and Sprite Technical Restoration of an MG Midget BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Restoration of an MG Midget

Hi Guys, Newbie to the forum, I am planning on a restoration of an MG midget. I have two, one is a 1972 plate mk IV RHD 1275 and the other is I believe it is an American import 1500 LHD ( no V5 or documents) although not sure. The 72 is in a sorry state and I am unsure of the state of the chassis. The LHD one has a good chassis. Anyway, what is the best section to start a thread of the rebuild? I would need plenty of advice on this as I am new to restoring classics ( trying to get my young Son off the PS 4) At the moment cannot upload photos ( need setting up on ipad) hopefully one of the guys can point me in the direction where to start the thread on the rebuild. Cheers Dave

D Rudd

Welcome to the group. And to answer your question, you've just started the thread. All you have to do is ask and someone here has done it so you'll get plenty of good advice. Of course the big question is where to start. A lot depends on how much work needs to be done and what your abilities are. Decide which car you want to do, look it over and ask away.

Martin

welcome, Dave [it helps to be called Dave on here...!] You might have problems with the paperwork on the import? Without seeing the cars my money would be on the 1275...but then I would say that. There are many helpful folks Stalking the Boards...and there is no such thing as a daft question [I have asked plenty over the years]....

David Cox

I would suggest joining the Midget and Sprite Club that allows you discounts at various suppliers. Members have access to an archive of past magazines where technical articles are indexed. You can also tap into the knowledge and expertise of members of your local group who, if anything like the Kent Area group, also offer hands on assistance. There is a Technical Officer and an enquiries line where you can get assistance perhaps as you struggle with a problem. If you need assistance with DVLA issues then there is a liaison officer. Problem with an original build issue then archivist Terry Horler wrote the 'bible' - Original Sprite and Midget. Alan

Alan Anstead

Hi Dave and welcome. This might be an unpopular view but it might be the 1500 is your better bet. Here's my reasoning. Good chassis. A big plus as a starting point. 1500 bits in general are cheaper than for A series cars. This is especially to the point because you're new to restoration and when the costs mount up it can be daunting (scary) especially when you consider that you will never recover your costs from the value of your car, whichever one you go for. It's LHD, but that's (a) not hard to live with IMO and (b) pretty easy to convert anyway. The 1500 is worth less so you could think of it as a practice run. For some reason 1275s are always worth more (all else being equal) despite 1500s being in some ways the better cars. (Cue the howls of derision - relax guys, it's just an opinion). Bottom line is I would go for the one that looks easier first so you need to weigh up more than the chassis. Does one have a known good engine for example? How much body prep and painting will you need to do? Because that's a huge money pit. Good luck either way and in this parish there are no dumb questions. You might get the odd dumb answer but in general the people here will bend over backwards to help.

Greybeard

Hi Dave and welcome to the forum! This is a very friendly and helpful board, I've found it invaluable for my ongoing Frogeye renovation. Could you not take pictures on the ipad and upload directly? I do it all the time on my (hudl) tablet. It would be useful to see pictures of your cars in the first instance. Can you weld and do you have a MIG? You'll need one for any serious bodywork. Bill

Bill Bretherton

“ [it helps to be called Dave on here...!] “ Although it can get confusing. A lot will depend on your budget, how much bodywork you’re prepared to do and what you actually want to achieve - a concours example, a completely non-standard bitsa, or something in between.

Dave O'Neill 2

Hi Dave, A lot depends on how much you want to be doing restoration work, and how much your aim is to have a completed project that you can drive. If the latter is you main objective, then be aware that anything other than a minor refresh can spiral you into years of work before you actually get to drive it. But isf you just enjoy working on the car than that in itself can satisfy. I am intrigued how you come to have 2 such cars, both potentially in need of restoration? Logic would be to decide what you wanted to work on, and the condition you could cope with, and only then go looking for the project vehicle.

GuyW

Hi Guys, Thanks for the comments, well appreciated. To answer some of the questions, I have just done an engine implant on a MGF with my young Son (13 yr old) It was an MPI and now has a VVC engine. It came with the engine out. That was a bit of a learning curve but it runs sweet. Just got to valet and MOT then sell it. There is the thread on the MGF register forum with the photos if anyone would care to look. (my handle is Yojic). Now to the Midgets, One was that I done a deal with the owner of the workshop (Hired) done a bit of fabricating and installing a trailer winch) The other I bought for spares only (you can guess which one :) :) I am not phased at all about welding (used to do coded welding with MIG/MMA/FCAW/TIG Stainless/Carbon and exotic material) I have all three welding machines to cope with all thicknesses, so welding is not the issue including fabrication (Aluminium/Stainless Steel etc.) As mentioned the RHD Midget maybe too far gone on the chassis. replacing panels should not be a problem so long as all lines up nicely including the door gaps. So if I go down to route of restoring the RHD it will be a panel at a time so as to minimise distortion. Preparation for re spray etc. not a problem as I have a basting gun and cabinet along with the spray guns. So I have all the tools to attack them :) I think I maybe able to handle it, but some advice on an engine rebuild for sure. Anyway here are the pics :) :) Dam can only upload one at a time? Dave

D Rudd

With your experience I suggest you tackle the 1275 then. Three reasons. 1. The "Chassis" work is very straightforward on these cars, so long as you tackle in the right sequence and are accurate in your alignment and measurement, which I am sure you would be. 2. The chances are that although your 1500 is more sound, once you get into it much the same sort of areas will need replacing anyway. E.g. a small amount of rusting around the sill is easier to fix by replacing the whole sill, same as with severe rusting. 3. The 1275 will sell better than 1500 when completed. May or may not be the better car, but the fact remains that they do get better prices. Of course you could do both. . My first 1500 needed new sills both sides and new rear spring hangers. l did it with my then 14 year old son and it took us just 2 good weekends' work to get it fixed and up to MOT standard.

GuyW

Another pic the LHD 1500

D Rudd

Another pic the LHD 1500

D Rudd

You know what, I would do then both. Restore the 1275 as is and do the 1500 debumpered, and with a k series vvc engine transplant.😃

GuyW

Lol Guy, funny you should say that, I have another VVC engine, LSD, type 9 gearbox and uprated shafts for a 1500. So, I'd already half decided to do the 1275 to the original as I can get it. and convert the 1500 to take the K Series VVC. But that would be way off yet., As I have a TR6 CP also to do. before the K Series. Anyway will finish uploading the pics. Currently working away at the moment so these projects will take some time. Dave

D Rudd

The rear wheel on the 1275 seems to be sticking out a long way, so it may have been converted to wire wheels, but retained the (wider) steel wheel axle. Just something to watch for, as the halfshafts won’t be engaging fully. Of course, it may just been that it’s so rotten that the axle has moved sideways 😀

Dave O'Neill 2

Welcome Dave, hope you enjoy it here Good call to do the 1275, specially if you're trying to get the young fella involved -The more to do to interest him the better-? That 1500 shell looks like the sort of thing that would be nice to have laying about willy

William Revit

Will have a closer look at the back end of the 1275 when I get home on leave (Dave O comment) For now here are a few photos of the 1275. As can be appreciated there is major restoration needed. I would need a pointer on where to start with one panel at a time. I suspect it would be to start on the inner and outer cills to keep the strength, so as to not twist the chassis (if it is reparable). Dave

D Rudd

Build the car around the doors as these are the parts that are most tricky to alter. It is usual to weld a bar across the top of the door opening to prevent the car sagging in the middle while you fix the underside and sills.

Mike Howlett

Thanks Mike will put bracings across the doo gaps but if you look at the following photos it would have to tie in on the upper part of the foot wells. More to the point how do you upload more that one photo at a time? There are several to upload. Dave

D Rudd

Keep in mind that the underside of a spridget is basically flat especially from side to side so a good spirit level is a useful tool to check alignment. The front chassis legs bend upwards towards the front ahead of the gearbox cross member but that is intentional and for suspension geometry reasons.

David Billington

Other side

D Rudd

Dave Usually it's one pic at a time Unless you're into photoshop, where you can join heaps together and then reduce the size down--I think the max size to load on here is around 500Kb I still can't believe how much of a rotten car you guys over there will start into If that was here it would go in the bin That 1500 shell's looking better all the time By the time you cost up all the panels and time (free I guess)and all the work and disapointments, I'd be looking really seriously at the other shell and swapping everything over to that-It won't be original as far as that goes but mate, look at the work ahead of you there -Is it worth it---NO I don't know what you have available to you there ,but the Hotrod guys here take there stripped body shells to the electro platers and get them acid stripped and electro primed before they start, it costs a bit but it makes the job a whole lot easier, all rust gets eaten off and the car comes back a nice light yellow primer colour with every single rust hole visible, AND it's primed inside bits that you can't get to normally with a gun---bit of an eye opener though when they come back, there's twice as many holes as you think------but clean

William Revit

Lol I can imagine what this 1275 would be like, a lump of Swiss cheese. It would take a load of work to get this to look like a half decent car. I am just curious if I can get the A pillars and B pillars along with the inner and outer cills to line up nicely for the door gaps. But then again I maybe dreaming there :) But I will have a go. I have a couple of options to convert the 1500 to RHD if the 1275 is too far gone as it pretty much looks like it. But I do like the look of the 72 RWA 1275

D Rudd

Hi Dave, Welcome to the forum. I have been restoring my midget for the last 6 years! I think mine was in a similar condition to your 1275. I’ve been keeping a blog going with loads of photos which might help you. https://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/ I decided to start on the rear wheel arch and rear bulkhead area and then work forwards. Getting the rear bulkhead sorted first seemed to me like the best place where all the other panels could be measured against. If the door gaps look half decent make sure you weld a brace between the A & B posts. Mine were gone and bodged by a prior owner. Good luck with your project and feel free to asking questions and use the search as there’s probably the answer here you’ll be looking for. James

James Paul

Both of my cars were as far gone as that '72 shell, or worse! There isn't an actual chassis, but the main structural base of sills, cross members, heel board etc are all built around the flat floor panel. Dimensions are fairly logical imperial sizes so if you have an approximation in metric, check to see what the nearest imperial is and that will probably be correct. As said, use the doors as a template - they will fix the positions of the A and B posts along the length of the sill, and the angles that they go at. I braced the door openings at top and bottom with bars that could be adjustable with a threaded bar and locking but system to get accurate door gaps. Looking at your 72 shell, you will need a LOT of panels and will find at the end that there is not very much that hasn't been replaced or at the very least patched. I have happily taken this on as I enjoy the work itself but in recent years panels have become really quite expensive. I have made many of the panels that l needed, but I would think twice about taking that one on. You may find a better 2nd hand shell, which would cost less than the panels for that one.

GuyW

"You may find a better 2nd hand shell, which would cost less than the panels for that one" Indeed. I've seen a couple of decent looking RWA shells on ebay this year, that weren't at all expensive.

Dave O'Neill 2

Yes, I wonder if a "new" shell would be better for the 1275. I did that for my (ongoing) Frogeye resto but shells were cheaper at the time and I could get a basic tub without main outer body panels. I note that complete Heritage Midget shells are a good £10k which is a lot! So, if you are considering spending a few years rebuilding your existing car, price up the body panels and decide. It looks a major task to me. Using the 1500 shell is perhaps an attractive option.

Bill Bretherton

Dave If you decide to go the 1500 shell, the RHD conversion is a piece of cake ,you have everything there in the 1275 and if you like the look of the round wheel arches there are some arches available off (I think)Escorts that match up real nice Someone on here has done it / will know what they're off It looks the best option by far to me Now, what colour

William Revit

Wow, great advice coming, regarding making up panels, I would need a cheap former for a start 🧐 10k for a heritage shell 🤬😱 that is way too much. James, 6 years! I don’t plan on taking that long. Fantastic source of information on your blog, thank you for that 👍🏻. Will do a lot of research and pricing for the panels. As you guys mention it most definitely be a lot cheaper to obtain a decent shell off flea bay. On saying that, as is, this project would test my skills to the limit and my Son and I would learn a lot from it. If successful I dare say other projects would be a piece of cake. Bring it on 😂

D Rudd

All the advice coming is well noted, thanks for that guy’s. Regarding the threaded bar and a tube, good advice there Guy, thanks. That is if one of the posts is good enough to anchor from (A or B) 😂 Where to start, would be the question here, as I would need a datum for the measurements if the floor panel is dead flat. If there is information of factory dimensions of the panels, door gaps etc. That would be great, I can then make my own datum and work from there. It seems to me the logical place to start would be from the sills. Then the doors and getting the gaps right with the A and B posts in turn the front wing. Would that be the best way to start from? Whilst I am away from home, I will start looking for a shell, has to be cheap though 😂 maybe that would be the best option🧐 Cheers Dave

D Rudd

Dave, I wasn't meaning you might get a shell that didn't require work, just that you should find one that needed rather less work than your '72 shell! There's a stripped one at around £650 at the moment. Still needs work but much less than yours and you could very easily spend 2 or 3 times that on all the panels you would need for yours! If you do make some of the panels or even for patching small areas, then find a steel fabricator locally and they may be persuaded to let you look through their guillotine offcuts bin. I get almost all my steel that way and generally for free as the pieces needed for a Spridget tend to be too small to do much else with!

GuyW

Guy, that’s a good Idea with the off cuts. I had realised that a decent 2nd hand shell would need some work, there are a couple on flea bay about 100 miles from me. Less than £600 so I think that would be the way to go. Panel wise, where my workshop is, the owner is scrapping a load of shelving 1mm thick. That would be ideal for the inner and some outer panels. But for wings etc maybe better to buy pre formed panels arches etc. My concern with the 1275 are the A pillars I think they are too far gone. One door fell off and the other was hanging there when I picked it up 😂. Like I said I bought it for spares and maybe to convert the LHD to RHD. Without looking at the rest of it, it would be hard to say if it is not worth it. First impression is that a bare shell would be the way to go, so long as the A posts inner sills etc are good and not too much replacing floor panels etc. Once again thank you for all the responses. Dave

D Rudd

The bottom of the A post is one of the first areas to go on a shell so you would be lucky to find one that didn't need either the full A post, or the lower part where the bottom hinge bolts on needing a replacement. But it's actually a very easy fix. Leave the door in position on its remaining top hinge and use the front edge of the door to position the lower part of the hinge panel.

GuyW

Just done it for the second time! https://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/2019/10/lhs-post-repair. Dave I’m worried about the 1275. If it is this bad on the outside I fear for what the core structure will be like. If you want a big project and are prepared to take the time and the costs then go for it. But having gone through this myself I’d wish I had an easier project that hadn’t taken so long. I’d much rather be driving it now than welding it still. But at the time I couldn’t afford anything better. Good luck with whatever you decide. James

James Paul

James, IIRC it was the late John Mead that mentioned to me a guy he knew that boasted about his frogeye engine not chucking out oil, John's comment was that it was the only car he knew with rust in the tunnel. Likewise with many cars early and late the core centre structure stays in good condition, mine certainly did due to oil.

David Billington

Thanks Guys, Maybe get away with starting the nearside A post but the offside.......well there is not much there😂 will have a study at your blog James (did start to and will do so thoroughly). Just need to weigh up the cost before taking the plunge to rebuild the 1275. Most of the panels I can scavenge and make. It would be an interesting and challenging project to say the least. I anticipate it would take me a year to put right depending on time and funds if I am lucky. Attached are the photos of left and right side. Hope you guys can zoom in on them. Talk about a can of worms😂 Dave

D Rudd

To give you an idea of some costs: I have just bought a new outer sill, inner and outer A post for one side - £88 Occasionally replacement panels come up on ebay for around half price of new. 2nd hand door I got off ebay for £60 which needed a little bit of welding and a good wing for £100. Good luck with your project and keep us updated :)

Chris Madge

Dave, You could do a lot worse than trying to get hold of a copy of this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/MG-Midget-Austin-Healey-Sprite-Restoration/dp/0854293361/ref=sr_1_41?keywords=lindsay+porter&qid=1570441903&sr=8-41 Simon

Simon Wood

Welcome, and good luck ! It is a nice project(s), and you are for sure in the good place to ask for advises :)

CH Hamon

Dave, if you can fix up the 1275 in one year I'd be very impressed. I'm 7 years in and counting although that's maybe 2 days a week tops with other commitments/ activities and I'm retired.

Bill Bretherton

Hi Bill, It helps if you have all the equipment, thinking to make a rotisserie for the chassis/shell. It would make life a lot easier. I have all the other tools apart from the hydraulic ramp. (but have access to one, if needed?) Maybe optimistic with the 1275, been searching for an abandoned project with a rolling chassis/body as this maybe the best option if the 1275 is too far gone. I have a few years left before I retire and currently work away from home, so I have time to spare when at home (after normal duties garden/maintenance etc.) Dave

D Rudd

Hi Dave Welcome to the forum. Do you have an email address? I have something to send which may be of interest. Cheers Matt

Tarquin

Hi Matt, email davidj.rudd@yahoo.co.uk Looking forward to having a go at this Midget, James blog is a excellent and it shows some good pointers. Curious on what you are sending Matt? Cheers Dave

D Rudd

DAVE Have a look at this---looks solid from here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-MIDGET-BODY-SHELL-WITH-REGISTRATION-DOCUMENT/382494165527?hash=item590e6dca17:g:iWEAAOSwydpbJneS

William Revit

Hi William, Thank you for that, already seen it on eBay. As the guys mention, a shell would be the best way in the long run and cheaper too. The overall condition of this shell looks way better than the one I have. So seriously thinking on it. It is the other side of the country from where I am. Thinking there must be a catch on the delivery! Dave

D Rudd

The delivery charge made me laugh too !

Chris Madge

You can Click and Collect too! So, Argos then! The MG centre tend to be expensive generally so I wonder how good/ bad this shell actually is. I'd want to see it.

Bill Bretherton

Dave, that looks like a decent shell though I suspect it would still provide you with opportunities to do some steel fabrication and welding with your son. Just not quite so much of it! Assuming the £8 delivery is an error then you could post a collection job on Shiply.co.uk to get quotes. Don't take the first one, wait for a bit of competition to lower the price, and do take note of feedback reviews.

GuyW

Agreed Bill their prices are generally a fair bit higher than most other places on ebay

Chris Madge

Hi Guys, Had a look at the areas that are of concern at first glance, the lhd 1500 shell is very good. What I was thinking is to cut the bad areas out one at a time on the 1275 and patch by using the same section from the 1500. However this will be a lot of work and it would be a great challenge to do it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I know some of you will howl out don’t do it. Better to get a half decent 1275 shell rather than mess about with the 1500 shell. There is subtle differences between the RHD and LHD also overall between a 1275 and 1500 shell. From what I can see there is welding involved to change lhd to rhd. (For the steering column). Anyway here are a few photos.

Yojic

Some more of the 1275

Yojic

And more with some of the 1500

Yojic

More!

Yojic

Last one.

Yojic

Yes! Lots of work ahead. If needed, if I need panels such as the outer A post ( as one is dented on the 1500) then new panels it is. As for sills etc. I can take them off the 1500, along with the other panels. Like I said, one section at a time to make good. So what do you think guys? Would I be fighting a loosing battle 😂 thanks for the input and the suggestions. Keep them coming and of course I will update with plenty of photos of this rebuild. Cheers Dave

Yojic

David, These may give a clearer indication http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/BritishMotorHeritage-Midget.htm

Motley 5

Dave, if I understand you correctly that you are considering cutting panels off the 1500 to fix the 1275 shell, then I wouldn't go for that. Firstly, the panels that need replacing on the 1275 are very likely to have at least the beginings of deterioartion of all of the same ones on the 1500, and by the time you have cut them out they may not really be that good for re-use. Better to start with new metal, either bought in panels or home fabricated. Secondly, you will also find that there are rather more differences than you may at first realise. The front wings, for example, may look the same but are different and not interchangeable. Others here might agree that I am not averse to tackling bodywork that is far too far gone to make any sort of logical sense at all. My 1275 car was in a very similar state to that car of yours and I rebuilt it into a very useable car. But it took me an awfully long time! All your photos so far have been of the upper body panels. The problem areas will be underneath and I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least as much again that needs cutting out and replacing in all of the main structural areas underneath.

GuyW

Point taken Guy, I will strip the 1275 down and will see how bad it really is. Like you mentioned regarding the upper body panels, I suspect that the underside on the main chassis is too far gone and a good chance that the cross members are shot. Looking like it is the case, therefore I will scavenge what I can and hunt for a useable shell RWA same era. Pity, but it would be one hell of a challenge and still is. Cheers Dave

Yojic

Dave, I suspect that you are well aware, and it's just a shortcut way of referring to the underpinnings of these cars, but there is no chassis as such. But the structural floor pan is pretty simple and not hard to work on. Its just that given the state of your 1275 shell one could guarantee a fair bit of work is needed. Essentally there are 4 box sections running across the car and 4 running lengthways - 5 if you include the transmission tunnel. Set at right angles, together they form a flat(almost) ladder structure which is only prevented from lozenging by the addition of the flat steel floor. Longtitudinal box sections are the 2 sills which will need complete replacement and the two top hat section rails which tend to be OK, except for the bottom plate which will likely need cutting out and replacing. The transverse boxes are more intricate, especially the rear one which carries the spring and axle loads, but it is easy enough to build all of this up, section by section, it just takes a flat garage floor to use as a datum surface, some carefull measurement and time! The A posts, scuttle and footwell boxes then add further structural ridgidity to the whole thing and you will find hey all also need work. For the upper bodywork you might consider a different solution all together, with a Lenham or Sebring Coupe body kit. http://tinyurl.com/y3pmcktm

GuyW

Hi Guys, Think these photos have made my mind up, the shell and chassis members are too gone, by the time I have cut back to good metal, there would be nothing left 😂. So, I will take Guy’s advice and invest in a decent shell. Got my eye on one, a rolling shell, minimal rust but sure there will be some repairs on it. No where near as bad as the 1275. At least it will come with front wings and doors sills etc. As I said will strip the 1275 and scavenge what I can. Cheers Dave

Yojic

Dave, it's difficult deciding isn't it! When I acquired my Frogeye (from my brother) it was a bit better than your 1275 but still quite bad. I simply didn't have the skill or confidence, at the time, to repair it from the ground up (I'd never used a MIG welder but had done basic gas and stick welding as an apprentice many moons ago). I found I could get a new basic shell (minus bonnet, front wings, doors, rear wings and boot deck) at a reasonable price so went for that. My rear deck, one NOS rear wing, doors and front end were all usable so I've repaired them and, together with a new rear wing, have fitted them to the shell. It was not straightforward. I had to cut and shut the shell's rear inner wings to get my body panels to fit. I also discovered that one of the A pillars was mis-aligned, as was a front wishbone suspension mount. So the shell went back to the supplier for re-alignment. They didn't get it perfect but close enough for me to work with. It's pretty much as I want it now. The point is that, ideally, you repair what you've got because you can make it fit together. However, if you can get a complete shell with doors, rear wings, boot, front wings and bonnet then maybe that is the best way forward for you. I always felt that I'd "cheated" by not repairing my original shell and part of me will always wish I had, despite my original reservations about skill level. You sound quite well resourced so I'm sure you'll make a good job of creating a "new" Midget. Bill

Bill Bretherton

Nearside just as bad😂

Yojic

Whichever shell you decide to work on, or maybe before you decide, jot down a list of all the panels that you can see that you will need, and add up the costs from the Moss web site. Include panels that you might hope to make yourself as that will then seem like a saving! I say Moss because its easier just referencing one supplier at this stage, you may later find other sources but prices won't be significantly different over all. The web site diagrams are also good to give you an idea about how it all fits together. I find a hard copy better for this sort of reference and Moss will send one if you ask. The other thing is that when you do strip the 1275 body shell, keep everything! Even small parts like the check strap end cover pieces and the chrome finishers at the top of the B posts don't look like much at all and are easy to discard, but the cost then adds up rapidly when you later find need them! And take lots of photos of every detail!

GuyW

Guy W: I was not aware the wings were not interchangeable. I know the wheel arch has a different radius and the front indicator lights mount in the rubber bumper (US). What else is different? Dave: On the US spec Rubber bumper Midget, the interchange from LHD to RHD was eliminated in relation to the brake master cylinder and the steering column access hole. The older Midgets were an easy switch, but welders and extra panels just mean more work. John

J Bubela

Yes John, those are the differences I was meaning when I say the front wings are not interchangeable. A 1500 wing will physically bolt in place but l wouldn't say thay meant they were interchangeable. One could then form a shaped mounting to adapt the large rectangular hole on the 1500 one to take the earlier indicator. Altering the wheel arch would be difficult, as the height from the top of the wing down to the top of the arch is different, though again not impossible. So a fair bit of work would be needed to replace a rusted out 1275 wing with a 1500 one. It's not just a bolt on replacement.

GuyW

Guy, Done what you mentioned and the cost of the panels are in excess of 3k including new wings and bonnet. So for me its a no brainer, a rolling shell for about 1k with some panel work that I can make myself. Yes, the 1275 can be done but is it worth it, no, as the resale value would be far less than the cost of repair to the tune of 3k or more. So, I will put aside the LHD 1500 for a k series conversion. The 1275 will be scrapped after scavenging what I can. The spares could go onto the rolling shell (when I find one). Dave

Yojic

Probably the right decision.

Dave O'Neill 2

!! I must admit I didn't expect them to amount to quite THAT much! But the cost of panel prices has been creeping up over the years, far faster than the price of steel. Outer sills are now priced at £65 each! I got an inner and outer pair in 2009 for £26. Problem is that useable second hand panels like the front wings have also shot up in price, largely down to the influence of ebay which seems to have killed off the side stalls at car shows where one used to be able to pick up such things at very reasonable prices.

GuyW

If you reshell take lots and lots of pics of where everything is routed etc - you can never have too many and the one you need is always missing - DAHIKT ! There are two loose plates (6mm thick approx and plated) in the 'B' posts each side for fixing the door strikes/locks, easily overlooked if shell is being scrapped, fortunately I kept my rusty one until I had finished or else they would have been lost.

richard b

Good point Richard, I don't think it would be a problem to keep the scrap one for a while when tackling the rolling shell, just in case I need to cut out something. I have bought a rolling shell, should be delivered this week. Far better than the scrap one. It also has a factory hardtop, engine, gearbox and a load of other bits. Yes of course I will take lots of pics, especially during rebuild. Just ordered some epoxy primer, this will go on once welding and blasting/buffing are completed. So it will be a rebuild diary with all photos. Cheers Dave

Yojic

looking forward to the rebuild diary :)

Chris Madge

Here is the rolling shell, much better than the other😂 there will be some welding required nothing too serious. Will post stage by stage with photos. For now here is the Midget project. Few photos to follow Dave

Yojic

Much better prospect. And you decided to go for the hard top as well. Good move! If you are careful stripping both cars and after selecting parts for yours, you will very likely recover the full cost of the shell in selling the excess duplicate parts.

GuyW

Good move, that one looks a lot better proposition but still plenty there to get the young fella involved I wouldn't throw anything away from the donor car untill you are finished, there's always something you will need Main thing is- remember to laugh and have fun willy Enough bits for the RHD conversion on the 1500--???? dash, rack etc

William Revit

Well stripping to old one is a bit of a pain, too dam rusty especially the screws 👿 they just won’t budge. So I will salvage what I can. I should get the other Midget delivered next week, will give me time to strip the running gear and suspension etc. out of the scrap one. Also to make room in the workshop. A few more photos

Yojic

Take the screw heads off with an angle grinder and cold chisel if you don't need to remove the screw remnants from whatever they are fastened into.

GuyW

How about this beauty?

Dave O'Neill 2

Challenging!

GuyW

Prop would have bought it just for the air horn.

Greybeard

😂😂 Thought mine was bad, not much to salvage off that 😂😂 Just an up date, received the rolling shell today, all bits came with it, even an unleaded engine 👍🏻Also the V5 states its a historic vehicle, does that mean MOT & Tax exempt? States the colour is Gold but I think it is the Bronze Yellow although not sure. I would also like to ask is there a removable cover underneath for the prop shaft tunnel? ( if not, one to modify for the K Series, not this one).

Yojic

Historic vehicle is tax exempt, but you have to declare MoT exemption when you ‘tax’ it. From the previous photos that you posted, I would say it’s probably Harvest Gold. No removable cover, I’m afraid.

Dave O'Neill 2

Hi Guys, Not been busy on the project just lately ( work ), just a quick up date, have the Midget in the workshop, lots of prep work to do, brought new outer A post skins and a repair panel for the offside rear, front lower wheel arch. But first I have decided on fabricating a rotisserie, much easier access! It’s a bit on the heavy side 😂so more than capable of doing much heavier cars. Need to put retractable out riggers on it along with a manual worm gear for the rotation. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers Dave

Yojic

Hmm The only Midget I've seen on a rotiserie , was made from a pair of engine stands and the pivot point was probably about 2" above the bottom of the grille, with the pivot there you could turn the car over by hand easily- Looking at your version it would need the pivot shaft rolling over 1/2 a turn and the body bracket 'T' entering it from the short side instead of from the long side as it is, -and yours looks way too high, the pivot point only needs to be a touch over half the width of the car from the ground Hope that helps willy

William Revit

It does depend on whether the full running gear is still fitted, or if you are rotating a bare body shell. If it's a bare shell, then the axis of rotation close to the C of G is in line with the rear bumper support brackets at the back. And at the front it is 8.25" above the front chassis extensions arms. Suspended thus, the whole body tub can be easily rotated with one hand and a simple pin arrangement devised to lock it at any angle you wish.

GuyW

Hi Guys, Thinking ahead here for the 1500 LHD and the RHD K Series conversion. Have not made my mind up yet to go bumperless but definitely getting rid of those huge ugly rubber bumpers. Are there any sections that you can buy to convert these midgets especially under the rear light clusters. Or do you have to make them yourself. (of course you maybe able to source a section for that of a scrap one), but quite a bit of welding involved. See attached pic to know exactly what its about. Thanks Dave

Yojic

IIRC Chris has done that (certainly his 1500 is bumperless) so if no one else gets there before Chris should be able to tell you. Even on the 1500s there are many changes over the years and not even counting those compared to the A-series cars, so do check as not all parts and panels are the same or interchangeable (although many are).

Nigel Atkins

I bought my 1500 as an uncompleted project and it included some filler pieces for the section under the lights. No idea where they came from though. I replaced the rear rotten panel at the same time with a 1275 one which did away with the ugly RB mounts. Some repairs and modifications to the two big beams in the boot got them flush with back of the rear panel. There is someone selling filler pieces on eBay but I have no idea what they are like. Since the picture I have added a reversing light, and shortened the end of the exhaust.

Chris Madge

Chris, I'd be very careful about shortening the exhaust tail as previously carbon monoxide has entered one person's Spridget - IIRC from having headrests/restraints but check in the Archives - not from shortening the exhaust but these things are about particular circumstances and possibly alterations. It may not apply to your car, it might even be better with the short tail - or it might be you need a medium or long tail to clear the exhaust output being pulled back into the cabin, I don't know. Almost as much an art as a science perhaps especially as you probably don't have access to wind-tunnel testing. Just be aware as there's no smell, taste or colour to carbon monoxide, I'll leave you to look up the symptoms

Nigel Atkins

Yes, when I went naked at the rear (AKA bumperless) I also lopped a couple of inches off the tail pipe. No ill effects. And, on my 1275 the inverted boat shapes at the bottom of the rear wings were rusted away so I made new ones from sheet steel. Fairly simple bit of metal bashing over formers and a wet sandbag got the shapes pretty close. After welding and painting I then filled them with latex rubber as used for making latex molds for cold casting resins. They have not rusted out again in the last 20 years, though some other repaired parts on that car have done so.

GuyW

Hi Guys, I’m back ( for a bit anyway ). Finally completed the rotisserie no doubt it will need some mods. Yes,I know it is OTT what you might call heavy duty 🤪 . Just got to attach some adjustable feet to level it out when joined together with the tie on the bottom. ( it gets jammed if not level 🙄) Also to level the chassis both ways. Few more holes to drill for the height adjustment to attach to chassis. All comments welcome even the negative ones🙂. Took some photos of the 1275 chassis and there is a bit of work to do, however, I don’t know how bad it is around the spring hanger mounts etc util I get that thick under-seal stuff off! Probably with a blow torch and a scraper before bead blasting. So will see next week. Off tomorrow to pick up a pillar drill, that will save me having to burn holes out for bolting 😂 those drill bits get blunt quick. Anyway your thoughts please 👍🏻 Dave

Yojic

The offside door needs some repairs with steel as the bottom has been bodged and filled so cut out and patch along with the lower offside rear wing and rear valance. Will do that when bead blasted. There are also a few small patches to cut out and fill with good metal in various places around the body. Looking forward to crack on with it 🙂 Cheers Dave

Yojic

Don’t know whats up with uploading photos, they just don’t seen to 🤷🏻‍♂️.

Yojic

Another pic, just one or two to upload now

Yojic

One more after this.

Yojic

Have not a clue where all these bits go 😂, no doubt it will get sorted, but will take time.

Yojic

Take care with the door repairs, its very easy to warp the outer panel with too much heat. Looking all set to make a start, good luck

Chris Madge

Hi Guys, Regarding the offside door the bottom skin has not been folded over to the frame, so could be steel to add there as well as repairing the bottom where there is patches tacked ( see photo). However, I have two more doors to look at and the green one seems to be the best option with minor patch inside bottom and possible patch on the skin. Have not sorted the rotisserie out yet should do Monday and see how that goes? Will be starting on the body repairs this week. Offside A post needs a bit of work but first sort the back end out. Dave

Yojic

Don't you just love sorting out other peoples repairs :( I guess it had a repair to the skin and they didnt fold it over? Hopefully the bottom of the green door still has enough metal thickness to be use-able. :)

Chris Madge

A word of caution if I may. If you decide to use the green door I suggest you offer it up first to check it will fit. It's probably supposed to fit the hole, but as Gershwin tells us "It ain't necessarily so.." Surprising how much variation there can be between individual cars sometimes. Just my 2¢.

Greybeard

Well the rotisserie did not work well, so need to get the pivot point in the centre and lower it and move the jacks onto the outside🤷🏻‍♂️ Still 💩 happens. Removed the front wings and damaged them as could not get the front bolts out, had to resort using the gas axe 🤮 made a bit of a mess. NVM more patch work to do, it will come right in the end. For now the midget it on axle stands. NS inner foot well, inner sill to sort. Yep, the more you look the more you find. Dave

Yojic

Yojic, Personally I would much rather see 4 individual larger images posted than a single image comprised of 4. I find that the individual images that result are small and lack enough detail to really see what is going on.

David Billington

Dave Your rotisserie looks the goods to me From what I can see from the attached pics is that the body mounting brackets in your cross piece need to be swapped side to side to be in the upper position instead of lower, this would get the mounting point around the same height as the pivot and it would spin around fine Don't know what you have at the other end but same goes, the mounting point needs to be around pivot height, then jack the car up there to mount it up It'd be nice to get the pivot down so you could bolt the car in and lift with your rams but it'll be a major rejig of your design from what i can see It'd have to come right down to near the top of the ram,,not impossible but a project on it's own

William Revit

Should have used a mini grinder with a slitting disc to slice the heads off those wing bolts. Much neater! Gas was clearly the wrong tool for that job!

GuyW

And yes, you need to raise the chassis brackets. Reduce the distance between your rotisserie pivot axis and the axis through the car's centre of gravity - think of a line roughly along the line of the crankshaft. As Willie says, swapping the brackets side for side in order to invert them would do it. As it is, if you rotate the stand through 90 degrees the chassis will be way out to one side and pretty unstable. I do see the point of your little engineered worm drive device for rotating it but these cars are so light you can flip them over on a rotisserie with one hand! Your system is precise, but you are going to get pretty fed up with twirling away with that lttle handle!

GuyW

Hi Dave, Here's my tilting Midget: https://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/2016/02/part-tilt-midget.html It has been really stable and although I can't get 90 degrees I would say i'm not far of 70 degrees. When I needed to get properly underside i lifted it on to its side with tyres on the floor. The engine stands help with that as well and bringing it back down level. Good luck James

James Paul

Once the rear floor is repaired and sound enough, then with that type of rotiserrie, the rear support can be transferred to mount onto the rear bumper mounting holes. In that position, the whole body can be easily rotated by hand through a full 360 degrees, and stopped at any position.

GuyW

Thanks Guys, Points noted with the rotisserie, I am now in the process of modifying it. Yes Guy, the gas axe is far too harsh 🙈. Think I understand your comment with a mini grinder (dremmel) the only one I have at the moment is 41/2” thats too bid to take off heads in tight places. Still I may be ok to put those wings right, should not be too much of a problem take my time with them with spot weld stitching ( letting it cool down before next spot). I will attach some photos, as I have now stripped the midget down to almost the shell save for the rear lever arms and the petrol tank. Lo and behold there are several areas that need attention ( new metal and get rid of the bodge jobs 😂. Just for David, I will attach one photo at a time, I know that zoom thingy is a bugger isn’t it Dave 😉

Yojic

Now for the rear.

Yojic

I do not like the look of the spring hanger boxes as they look as though they need replacing ( on order ) offside one is the worst. I have also ordered the other bits to go with them ( strengthening panels inner and outer both sides)

Yojic

There are several areas of concern, so will up load as and when these are getting repaired ( about 15 areas up to now, thats without getting the coating off !) So plenty to do. Here is a good one 😂 fibreglass that will be cut out and made good. I am enjoying this so far, cannot wait to get that rotisserie modified. Dave.

Yojic

Keep going Dave! Having done all this I know what you're heading into. If you have any questions just let me know. There's loads of photo's on my blog that might help you. Make sure you take plenty of measurements before you start chopping out the rust. That is if you've got enough good metal to measure! https://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/2018/12/rear-bulkhead-continued.html https://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/2019/01/rear-bulkhead-nearly-finished.html Good luck James

James Paul

Dave, I was meaning a 4 1/2 grinder. I do occasionally use a Dremel but they are too lightweight and get through those little cutting disks far too fast! Rather than cutting rusted nuts off flush to the surface, I usually use a thin disc and cut down the axis of the bolt until the two halves of the nut fall away or can be knocked off with a chisel. It's quicker and does less damage to the panel.

GuyW

Thanks James, noted Guy, will be more careful next time as it has a few more hours on the job 🤷🏻‍♂️ nvm . Be a few days yet before I get to the workshop again. Dave

Yojic

Dave, how complete is your 1500 LHD amrican 1500 midget? I might be intrested to buy some lefthanddrive stuf from you.

A de Best

Hi A de, Have not got around to look yet, some items are doubled up such as wings, boot, doors etc. As for other bits I don’t know yet as am concentrating on the 1275. I see you have a K- Series Midget 👍🏻 Thats my next project, think I have most of the bits for the conversion, so hope you can give me some tips at a later date, if you done it yourself? Whats it like with performance and petrol consumption? I have 2 VVC 1.8 engines, one excellent but the other one has I think an hgf ( it’s in the 75th anniversary MGF) 😞 That will get sorted later as I have the uprated head gasket sets (2) that’s another project on it’s own, refurbishment ( respray/ subframes, poly bushes etc.) Guys, regarding the 1275 restoration, I have bought several panels, so will be sorting the rotisserie (mk 2) 😂out tomorrow and the gantry winch. That will get done before I restart on the midget as I need to tidy the workshop up and make some room. Oh, I bought a Fobco pillar drill for the workshop, works a treat on 12mm plate 👍🏻 Will take a photo tomorrow guys as I made a bench stand for it. Came in handy for the rotisserie ( although a bit late in the day) Dave

Yojic

Hi Dave, I see my first name is no longer visible on top?? Arie it is. Mine is a Frontline conversion but was done at a time quality wasnt theire first pryority. ;) Redid a lot of it, its an ongoing project since 2005 not because its unreliable but its fun to fiddle around with it. Fuelconsumption is very good with the K and could be fantastic if I was able to control my right foot. :) The bits im intrested in on your US 1500 are not wings and stuf but more the specific US parts like the plastic steering cowl and most important with that are the smal bolts that connect these halfs. The steering column & rack, perhaps teh speedo&tachogauges too as they are smaller the UK gauges. Let me know when you bump into these parts.

A de Best

>>Frontline conversion but was done at a time quality wasnt theire first pryority. ;)<< It never has been other than for presentation, marketing and take in, these have always been their highest priority and their quality of these has always been very high.

Nigel Atkins

Latest edition to the workshop, very handy. Will modify the stand so that it has a shelf / tray underneath for drill bits etc. My lad will have a good workshop when he is old enough😄 Been re jigging the rotisserie today, almost don one end, will try that tomorrow when complete (ran out of plate today so could not finish one end). Dave

Yojic

As shelf would be nice

Yojic

OK Arie, Will keep that in mind, reminds me to put a chalk board on the wall ( cannot say blackboard now 😂) for little reminders. Dave

Yojic

Ah Arie, A lightbulb moment, regarding frontline rear suspension. What if I remove the check strap on the axle, modify the ubolt bottom plate for the axle so that it has a mounting for a telescopic damper and tie into where the strap was on the chassis? Would that work along with a pan hard kit. Any thoughts? Dave

Yojic

Regarding the front, I am going to use the MGB lever arms, that should suffice for a K Midget. Dave

Yojic

Fairly standard mod for the rear Dave. Just as you describe. The top strap bolt may need a bit of extra weld to reinforce it. And you usually need to invert the spring plate / lower strap fixing in order to increase the available length for fitting a telescopic. Swap the plates, left for right when you invert them) Classic mini front shocks are the right size for this.

GuyW

Thanks Guy, just thinking ahead for the K Series. I already have a pair of classic mini front shocks. Thanks again. This forum is excellent for advice. When I re start on the 1275, my plan is to work front to back and tackle what ever needs replacing on the chassis and body. I have already bought several panels ( 1275 and 1500) some existing panels I will chop out the bad and fabricate infills. So will post photos and explain how I did it. ( right or wrong ) I am sure that it will take longer than a year as originally planed, it will be a big learning curve for my Son and I. Looking forward to the challenges 👍🏻 Dave

Yojic

David, the main thing is that you enjoy doing the work and it doesn't become a chore! You have a major head start in the quality of your welding - I wish mine was half as good!

GuyW

Dave, Check the archive to confirm the classic Mini front shock use as IIRC they have a very short travel for use at the rear as on the Mini they run about half way along the front upper suspension arm. The rears would be more appropriate length/travel wise but from memory have a pin mount top so not directly usable with the upper check strap mount.

David Billington

I use Mini front ones, and they work fine with my slightly lowered MK1V Sprite. One can use Mini rear ones with the longer travel but need to fabricate a small mounting turret in the rear axle hump to accept the pin mount top.

GuyW

Thanks for the heads up, I am sure I can make either fit ( front or back mini shocks ) as fabrication is not a problem as you will see in the following photos on the mk2 rotisserie 😉. For info, the k series chassis is going to be from a mk1V 1500 midget with the 1275 springs ( to lower it) as it will be de bumpered. Appreciate comments on the mk 2 rotisserie. ( one end done at the moment the other end will be a different height due to the bolting holes) The pivot point is at the same elevation as the angle brackets. Although if more height is needed there are a few holes to choose from but then the pivot point would be offset. I think that both end pivot points should be at the same elevation, therefore an angle frame needs to be fabricated. Am I correct with that? Dismantled the mobile gantry hoist today to make more room in the workshop. Dave

Yojic

When jacking up, it is not square and jams when released, may have to weld a pipe inside a pipe on the other side so that it travels squarely. any thoughts.

Yojic

As you can see I have done away with the worm gear to rotate. Not sure if there is enough height to turn 360 deg. Dave

Yojic

Dave, Nice Fobco drill and likely a bit lighter than a similar floor standing Fobco a mates father got given almost for free. Regarding the jamming can you get any metal strip in between the inner and outer sections to act as a gib strip and maybe add a few bolts and nuts welded on the outside to allow for adjustment. I did similar on a cheap Chinese arbor press, the ram was accurately square and parallel and plenty of room to get some 1.5mm brass strips at the front and one side for better support. The standard adjustment bolts bore directly on the ram which I felt was poor and easily improved with the addition of the brass strips.

David Billington

Just added some additions to the workshop, Electric hoist on a trolly beam. Should lift an engine out ok along with a gearbox providing set up ok.

Yojic

Also some shelving for the parts, need to be organised. More shelving to follow as they are free🙂 also a heavy steel work bench again free but cannot retrieve it yet as the fork truck is unable to tackle a field (ground is too soft at the moment). Will be starting on the other end of the rotisserie tomorrow.

Yojic

"For info, the k series chassis is going to be from a mk1V 1500 midget with the 1275 springs ( to lower it) as it will be de bumpered." I have 1275 springs on my de-bumpered 1500, front and rear. To get the car to sit level the front springs needed 3/4 inch spacers under the spring pans to lower it. You would be better off getting some shorter front springs from somewhere like Magic Midget and do away with the need for spacers.

Chris Madge

The early 1500s had (later) 1275 front springs from factory, but the rear springs were the same for all 1500s (and different to earlier models). Thanks to Toss I learnt a bit about Spridget front springs. I second talking to Kim at Magic Midget and getting the appropriate front springs from him, better and longer lasting than the modern alternatives many others offer.

Nigel Atkins

ETA: I forgot to put the 1500s different front crossmember provided the ride height lift over the earlier models. Lots of parts mix and match over the different models and years but there were hundreds (many more?) differences from '58 to'79.

Nigel Atkins

Thanks guys for the info, much appreciated, the K Series will be way off yet, Anyway back to the main topic, the Mk 2 rotisserie, did not quite work 😂 almost though see pic.

Yojic

Front view

Yojic

Now the mk 3 works a treat after minor modifications, so now can rotate 360 deg 👍🏻. At last! I can get on with the midget restoration. Yes, there is plenty of areas to chop out and make good with new metal. First job is to get all the under-seal off with a blow torch and scraper, then wire brush to see what damage the steel worms have done. As mentioned before, I will start at the front replacing steel and work my way to the rear. Of course the chassis will be on axle stands when steel is chopped out and replaced, not on the rotisserie. Well pleased now that I can get on with it. 😄 Dave

Yojic

Forgot to ask 3mm or 2mm sheet steel for the chassis rails, 1-1.2mm for the body panels etc. Thanks. Dave

Yojic

One more for today.

Yojic

Dave Congrats on the spinner ,it looks the goods-- On the proofcote cleaning subject, the hotrod guys here use dry ice to get it off the horizontal panels (floor) -works a treat- safety first though- big gloves etc. A little research on the pooter might show a youtube thing on it maybe---- willy

William Revit

Thanks Willy, Started to remove the under seal on the front, chassis rail and inner wings . Revealed tin worm damage and patch work if you could call it that😂 Also some 💩welding on a rear bump stop for the axle. Plenty of rot setting in so needs to be cut out and made good. The outer sills don’t look too bad but the inner sills at the front are getting bad and need replacing, same with the floor pans ( in places ) do not have a clue as to the state between inner and outer sills. Is there a sequence to remove them and will I need to brace the door openings first ( think that would be wise but not sure?). Along the bottom of the chassis rail both sides at the bottom needs replacing. Do I use 2mm sheet steel? The center plate, has been bashed in a bit, replace with 3mm sheet plate? Comments would be appreciated. Shout if you cannot zoom in on photos ( I will then post single photos so that you all can view) let me know please.

Yojic

Inner wings at foot wells need replacing. Could someone advise, to cut out and trim back to suit then replace with good steel ( 2 layers in places) Thanks Dave

Yojic

Hi Dave, This all looks very familiar! On the centre plate I had the same idea as mine was also caved in and dented. But when I took it off I decided to flatten it out and weld it back again as there was next to no rust behind and I figured it should hold up as I'm not planning on taking mine rallying any time soon! https://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/2020/02/front-chassis-plate.html I think on the rest of the areas you're going to have to decide how you want to tackle it. Expensive option is to cut everything out, buy replacement panels and weld them all in. But for me I did a mixture of repair panels and bespoke fabrication with sheet metal. I quite enjoyed making them up. If there was enough good metal I'd make good with a bespoke repair. Structurally you do want to make sure that the inner and outer sills are welded in good to strong metal. Mine were completely gone so make sense to replace with new. On metal thickness, I think 2mm is quite thick. Not sure you need that much. I think I have used 1.5mm throughout. Found that good to work with generally, including bending the metal. 1mm is too flimsy and difficult to weld. Is that the bump stop plate where you have written Awful Welding? Does look a right mess. I don't think you can buy those so you need to get them off carefully and clean up. There's plenty of photo's on my blog but happy to answer any questions. Good Luck James

James Paul

Dave, I think you are over estimating the steel thickness used on these cars. They were very cheaply made and used light gauge steel for the most part. Common thicknesses were 20, 18 and 16 gauge (imperial) Nearest modern equivalents being 0.9mm, 1.2 and 1,6 mm. Even the heavier steel used on things like the lower wishbone inner pivot brackets welded to the front chassis rails are still less than 2mm I have generally used 1.2 and 1.6mm steel sheet for most bodywork repairs on my Sprites.

GuyW

For the underside of the broad cross member at the front, I just used 2.0, but I added in a couple of internal stiffening webs as well as this section is often used (by tyre depots, etc) to jack up the front of the car. I think this is main reason they are often damaged, rather than bottoming iwn speed bumps etc as the ARB would get hit first anyway.

GuyW

IIRC the inner sill is 14swg (2mm) and the outer 18swg (1.2mm). Pattern sills were thinner. The underside of the front crossmember being pushed up is very common as people use it as a front jacking point which it really shouldn't be used as without a spreader plate. I've known people to add some extra internal stiffeners and put a new flat plate back on.

David Billington

Thanks Guys, Yes James, it is the rear bump stop with 💩 welding, I have a saying to welders when doing inspection ( as a joke) how did you get your ar*e up there😉 Regarding thickness of sheets, I understand, however I will use 2 mm on the bottom chassis rails to give a bit of strength same with the cross piece where jacks can be used. For the K series (cross piece) I will use 3mm as it will be lowered (more for protection rather than jacking). Both front floor pans, toe plate, bit of wheel arch and inner sills at the front needs replacing. I do not want to take the outer sills off, (may have to for access) think I will brace the door gaps before cutting out! On with removing the under-seal first. One other problem is the rear valance where it meets the boot floor. This area will need to be bespoke panels along the edges. I think a 25mm strip on the floor same with the valance but with a lip to fold over. That would be a challenge 🧐

Yojic

Sure have got some chicken poop welds there Dave--In answer to one of your questions, Yes definately brace the door holes, just weld something accross the top and cut it off later--If you're real keen you can also do a cross across the car door holes as well just for peace of mind Main thing is---have fun

William Revit

At last a bit of progress on the front chassis rails, removed the rear side. Bit of a sod to get off with all those spot welds, but managed as you can see.

Yojic

Oops, nearside, I prepared the plate with 5mm holes for the plug welds spaced 25mm apart. Is that too close?

Yojic

This was then plug welded in place (spaced out to minimise distortion. The ARB mount was then tack welded in the correct position.

Yojic

The plug welds were then smoothed off with a flap disc. More to follow tomorrow. Comments appreciated. Dave

Yojic

Dave, Nice work, did you put a chill on the underside to prevent melt through. Spacing seems fine, is that much as the original spot welds are placed.

David Billington

Thanks David, answer to your question, no I didn’t 🤷🏻‍♂️ will look at the other side tomorrow so will see, if it has, I will put it right. I will bear that in mind tomorrow when I do the rest if needed? The spacing is not original, the original spot welds were all over the place and not uniform.

Yojic

Dave, did you spot the slight upwards bend in the chassis rails, just behind the rear of the two wishbone pivot brackets? It should be around 3 degrees and is what creates the castor angle for the front suspension. People have been known to expend a good deal of effort in trying to straighten them out!

GuyW

Hi Guy, 👍🏻 I did notice that the rails sweep upward toward the front and I just welded the new sheet steel on and nothing else. Also as it is upside down the front dips down slightly, think its ok but will check the measurement tomorrow for the degree of upsweep. A bit of trig should find out the angle.

Yojic

Sorry Dave, not trying to tell you what is probably obvious to you! Its a pretty primitive way of achieving a castor angle, but that's the nature of these very basic cars! That says, it works! It must feel good to have actually begun with some proper reconstruction at last.

GuyW

No problem Guy all the comments are good. Yes, it did feel good to finally achieve something.

Yojic

Dave, Did you add any extra bracing under (over) the ARB mounts as they do have a tendency to fatigue and crack around them over time especially if you're using a larger ARB. Your use of 2mm for that plate should help though.

David Billington

Hi Dave, I can't see if you have used any weld through primer on the metal you're hopefully never going to see again. I've been using this stuff: https://www.frost.co.uk/frost-weld-thru-zinc-rich-primer-aerosol/ Just stops the clean bare metal from rusting. I also use it on the surfaces that are to be welded together. Let it dry overnight then use a small wire brush to clean the plug weld hole before welding so the hole is clean metal but the rest of the metal joint is primed. Photo should help explain. You might like to get some rust converter as well to help prepare the areas that have some signs of minor surface rust in the hidden sections. https://www.bilthamber.com/paints-and-coatings/hydrate-80 Looking good though so far. James

James Paul

Nice Dave - Good to see someone that can actually weld Your sway bar bracket will be fine, the originals were hardly welded at all which you would have noticed when you removed it When you do your other car, which I would imagine is going to be more modified,and possibly have an angrier bar, what I did with my brackets was to drill right through and then oversize holes at the top and tubes through the rail fush and welded at the top and then bolts right through, but just check if you go to do that as I think I had to move it back or frd a bit as one bolt lined up with the radiator support or something--long time ago Have a look at this fella's welds on his anti roll bar, ------------ and spring steel It's in the TD-TF section of this forum TD/C Sway Bar: Addco/Moss Hybrid

William Revit

Thanks for the comments guys, as for weld through primer 😱 forgot! Nvm, what I plan on doing is when all structural and body repairs are complete, e.g at the front of the chassis rail I will drill a large enough hole for a long spray attachment to go through ( on the wall in one of the photos above) a type of waxoil think from bilthamber, then put a grommet there. Seam sealer along the edges, before priming the chassis. That should sort it for a good few years.

Yojic

Ah, it’s Dynax UB I will use (Bilt Hamber) for the anti rust protection in the awkward places.

Yojic

Bilt Hambers dynax is what I have been using on my frogeye resto. as well, Dave. It's good stuff and unlike the miserable extension tube that Waxoyl supply, it has a proper spray head that gives a good 360 degree fan coverage.

GuyW

I use weld through primer, but I do wonder about its effectiveness. Once heat is applied via the welder inevitably some of the primer will be impacted - loose burnt flaky etc. Is it better to not use any weld through primer if you are going to use a product like Dynax that is excellent in seeping into all the gaps? Isnt burnt and poorly attached primer going to reduce the effectiveness of Dynax?

Chris Madge

Excellent welding Dave! I wish I was as consistent. I also use weld through on metal that will be hidden but, as Chris says, some of it is bound to burn up. But where there will be bare metal in a cavity, surely waxoyl or similar is better than paint. Greased metal doesn't rust.

Bill Bretherton

Plug welding doesn't burn off a reasonably heat proof paint more than an inch of so away from the weld. For chassis sections like that I use a weld through primer, then a top coat of a heavy Zinc rich paint on the three internal sides. Then clean off the primer where the plug welds are, before welding. Afterwards I blast an airline through the cavity to remove any loose bits of paint that may have burnt before doing the Dynax treatment. Does it work? I don't know, ask again in 20 years!

GuyW

Fishoil's good but 'after' all the paintings done ,paint won't stick to it Bonus is if you've got a pussy cat your car will have a new friend-------------forever

William Revit

The 20 year comment is appropriate Guy. If I'm still here in 20 years I doubt I'll be driving a Sprite, never mind worrying about a bit of rust! But that's a comment for another thread...... Sorry Dave!

Bill Bretherton

No problem Guys, Done a bit more today as for the comment excellent welding, you may change your mind and yes I can still get my ar*e in awkward places 😂 as you will see. The chassis rail flanges on the offside needed some repair. Done what I could, as I did not want to replace the rail too much work involved there, therefore attacked it with a 4.5 inch cutting disc. Pitted steel is not good to weld on but I managed. As for some burn through, it is all I could do considering the location, brushable seam sealer should sort it.

Yojic

The flange welds were tidied up with a flap disc before the plate was plug welded on the flanges. Yes, replacing the flanges was a bit of a challenge due to exising thickness of material. Done now, there still is the existing upsweep on the rails so cannot foresee a problem with the geometry of the suspension etc. ( will find out when putting it together 🤪) Centre box section to do tomorrow also some more repairs to carry out on the front section.

Yojic

Coming along nicely now.😃 I would add a couple of extra webs inside the broad cross member. It's so easy to do now, before capping it off.

GuyW

I did take note Guy with regards to the broad cross member, I will do before closing.👍🏻

Yojic

Dave-Has your young bloke got involved yet, if not you might be able to wean him in doing your photography/computer bit to get him involved

William Revit

Willy, he comes to the workshop now and again. However, he is just recovering from a broken foot, so not been there for a few weeks. Good suggestion with him taking photos and sorting them out on the laptop for a diary of the rebuild. Today, we will do the wide cross member mod with the webbing stiffeners. This will be done with additional temporary stiffeners on the outside to minimise distortion when welding out before installation. The photos will be self explanatory when done.

Yojic

Broken foot -ouch- speedy recovery young man

William Revit

It looks like you repaired the flange with some weld? From my limited welding experience I would cut the flange off and replace with new metal. It’s more intrusive but it’s an easy repair usually.

Chris Madge

Hi Chris, the flanges were cut off, one at the top and the other 4mm down on the web, bit of a twat to weld , but tidied up ok with a flap disc before the 2mm plate was plug welded on the flanges. The lad is still in a bit of pain now and again, I said to him it will take a 3- 4 months to settle at his age. With mine it took several years! The broad cross section is done with temporary galv primer treated first with POR 15 metal prep inside and out. See pics The spacing for the plug welds are 25mm, stiffeners are at 92mm, did not bother with a backing bar (for distortion control) not needed. Plug welds- start off in the centre when welding then just let the weld pool build up to fill the plug no need to move the welding torch and that is it, (if no one knew, they are only 5mm dia). Stiffeners only stitch welded.

Yojic

Again space out the welding when doing the plugs, do them opposite to each other to minimise distortion.

Yojic

Thats the lad having a go at welding on the bracings. The outer A posts, inner cills, may as well do the outer as well as inside the arches are a f in mess where it is plug welded on the lip of the arch/ cill 🙈, the inner arches at footwells need replacing, toe boards, front floor pan and floor pan along the inner cills. So both sides are coming off🤷🏻‍♂️ But first the front splash plate (is it?) and part of the web where it meets the outer front bulkhead( put me right on that) both sides.

Yojic

The bracings at the front are tied into the bonnet hinge casing as the outer side foot wells are coming off to be replaced by new steel. The red lined areas are the splash plate and web/flange to be replaced with new steel. Day off tomorrow will start again on Monday.

Yojic

Dave In the top two pics of the four including young Grasshopper welding--Up at the ends of the two angled pieces there are drain holes near where they meet the toeboards, this area is a real rubbish trap(when it's up the right way) and the holes get blocked and rust gets into the toeboard When I did mine I drilled another drain hole, I think i used about 6mm and drilled about 25mm inboard of the existing hole and as close up to the toeboard as possible,,then when the cars up the right way you can poke the hose in there when you're washing the car and it drains out great instead of having mud sitting in the bottom --easy little mod to do now while you've got it there like that-

William Revit

Made a start on the triangular stiffeners (nearside) removed the flanges, made up one 30 mm to plug weld on to existing as it is too thin, then seal weld near the 25 mm flange. To clean the inside, think I will have to get the blasting pot out for this, then treat with POR 15 and prime it before closing in. It will not be welded to the bulk head as some in the area needs replacing as you can, just prepare both sides for now before starting on the bulkhead, toe boards and floor pans at the front. Think the a posts, inner and outer cills will need removing. One side at a time.

Yojic

When you cut out the A posts, put a vertical prop of some sort to support the scuttle and stop it dropping. It shouldn't move much anyway, but without a support its hard to tell. I just used a length of wood.

GuyW

Thanks Guy, Completed the welding on the above flange 😱 not used to this thin stuff 🤷🏻‍♂️ But a bit of seam sealer and protection should be ok. ( will post photo later of it as did not take one today) Areas of concern ( plenty) Removed the front offside floor pan to gain access 🙈

Yojic

As can be seen there are a few areas to weld in new steel. No problem just do the best I can, good or bad we will see.

Yojic

My attempt at preparing the floor pan with the large grommet hole and the fixed nuts for the accelerator.🤪 Think the jacking point needs to be replaced as it has started to rot through.

Yojic

I have made a start on removing the A post Inner and outer offside, as can be seen it has rotted a bit. Measurements checked and did not move 👍🏻

Yojic

Areas that need replacing, will take some more photos after cleaning. As with the inner footwell and part of the bulkhead a toe board

Yojic

Attempted repair of bulkhead and toe board, not happy with the welding, I need to suss out the mig welding set for spot welds as there is too much distortion on this thin plate.

Yojic

View from toe board. The red line is where I shall fabricate a 5 mm flange and plug weld to bulk head. Should be able to sort the distortion when fitting the floor pan.

Yojic

Oops, don't take notice of the missing guard on the 4.5 " grinder ( using 5" cutting discs) Carefully.

Yojic

Dave, As you're putting in a part panel you have to have a full weld around the patch, an MOT requirement, the edges joining other panels can be spot or plug welded. If you replace the entire panel you can spot or plug weld it in as per the original. Do you have a MIG shield for plug welding? They have a forked tip to hold it the correct distance off the surface.

David Billington

Dave, Another suggestion! You might consider adding a drain point at the base of the A post, as marked on your edited photo attached here. Water seeps into the A post from around the windscreen pillar seal and results in the very common rusting of this area. I drill a hole in the top of the sill which allows the A post to drain through into the sill. I also have 4 or 5 drainage holes along the bottom of the sill to make sure water drained into the sill then clears to the outside. A former regular contributor on this BBS took this one stage further by adding a short length of tube to carry the drainage fully through the sill and direct to the outside. I think he also added the same beneath the B post though I think this area is less prone to letting water enter as it should be fully sealed to the elements.

GuyW

David, all the part panels are fully welded, in the above photo at the time was tack welded, this was fully welded later. Noted about the forked tip for the mig set thanks. Guy, thanks for the heads up with the drain hole will order a length of instrument tubing.

Yojic

Well done a bit more on the front bulkhead , tacked on a flange ( replacement section was a bit short to fold over 🤪) spot welded with the floor pan in place (Not tacked) just for trial fitting. A bit of work to do where the bulkhead ties into the inner sill ( that can be done when the inner and outer sills are removed) The bulkhead was then spot welded until fully welded with the floor pan clamped in place. Guys, if you cannot zoom in on the photo, let me know as I will then post single photos in future. Regarding the welds 😂 this can be covered by under seal ( not so noticeable) when chassis is completed and primed. The under seal will only be in the inner arches and the underside of the chassis, not in the engine bay or boot area. ( that will be a way off yet 🤪)

Yojic

Removed the inner and outer sill today and cut the jacking point out. Found some rubbish stuffed inside the sill at the rear, latex gloves and cardboard 🙄. Will be preparing and tacking the inner sill tomorrow and may get the outer sill tacked. Possibly install a drain pipe just under where the ‘A Post’ will be attached as suggested by Guy 👍🏻 At the rear wheel arch, the inner and outer sill will be tacked but not to the inner arch or front spring mount area as this needs further work ( new mounting point and panels etc.).

Yojic

Next photo marked panels around the spring hanger that need removing and new steel welded in place.

Yojic

Made a bit more progress, fabricated a jacking point ( although used a bit of new cross member) the tube was slightly bigger and thicker but the jack slides in with little excess movement. Tacked and then welded the jacking point in along with the inner sill. Had to make a new flange for the side footwell, came out ok, now getting used to welding thin material 👍🏻 Will need to fabricate a flange piece for the front footwell to inner wing (marked up in photo). Other than that it is going good.

Yojic

Soon get the front offside chassis , floor pan, inner sill and inner wing completed ( welding )

Yojic

You are making some good progress, I wish I could work as quick as that :)

Chris Madge

Yes, I'm amazed at rate of progress. You must be in the garage 24/7 Dave!

Bill Bretherton

Lol Guys, Method in the madness, not in gainful employment at the moment one reason, the other to keep out of the wife’s way. Nagging about not making any money on it and too much time spent there in the workshop (does not understand the “Man thing”). Yet, OK for her to ask help on research on job hunting for her and preparation for interviews. I will be happy when she does finally get work. The young lad is old enough to leave on his own for a bit now. Out of interest, bought a cheap MGF 2001, V5 says it’s a VVC but not sure yet. Think the ECU maybe cooked as asked the lad to attach the jump leads to start the motor ( wrong polarity, oops) so now completely dead. Will check all fuses and the battery/ alternator fuses. Hopefully it has just blown them? We will see when I check it over.

Yojic

Done a bit more, welded in the outer offside footwell and tidied up the inner arch/ bulkhead ( still a bit to do) The MGF is ok, changed the battery, checked the fuses, all good and she fired up straight away 👍🏻 Good result and she goes well.

Yojic

Managed to get the offside outer sill on today, don’t know wether it would have been better to get the floor pan on first (advice please)

Yojic

Before cleaning the plug welds

Yojic

After blending in the plug welds a a coat of zinc primer. Bit more to do.

Yojic

I would have done the floor first, but then I would have been using a spot welder to weld the floor flange to the inner sill before spot welding the outer sill on.

Chris at Octarine Services

Dave, Is that an original sill or a pattern sill? The pattern sills I've seen have an inset piece ahead of the A post and are thinner, originals are a one piece pressing. I ask as the radius at the bottom front of the sill looks quite poorly formed with all the puckering of material. Apart from that nice work.

David Billington

Hi David, It’s a pattern sill, not too fussed about the puckering, if need be I will cut off and re flange that area if I cannot dolly / splice it in. I will have a go at the floor pan tomorrow, may have to uses a sash clamp as there is a slight bow on the inner/ outer sill 🤷🏻‍♂️ Will see how that goes?

Yojic

Completed the offside front floor pan today not too bad but had to use a sash clamp to pull it in a bit. Also fettled the wrinkly outer sill, came out ok, will look better with a bit of body filler.

Yojic

Had a go at the rear wing front offside repair section today more filler required as it was slightly small. I have noticed with these patten panels that there is some fettling to do as they are slightly ill fitting. But good experience. Will make a start on the offside A post tomorrow.

Yojic

Suggest you use a door as a template to make certain the A to B post gap is correct, and that they both make the correct angle with the outer sill.

GuyW

Dave, Maybe its the photo but the floorpan footwell panel always looks upside down to me like the depression in the footwell come upwards rather than downwards.

David Billington

The repair panel for the bottom of the rear outer wing/ b post looks a little narrow at the top? I had the same issue with mine. Before welding in place I use a 1mm cutting disc to make a vertical slit near the edge to allow the edge of the repair piece to be pulled out to align with the bodywork. Once welded in place the slit can be filled with weld.

Chris Madge

Chris, that is partly what prompted me to suggest a trial fit with a door. The rear wing narrows towards the sill so if the wing has dropped at all the slightly wider part of the remaining wing will be matched with the slightly narrower repair section. Offering up the door would check that the top of the B post is at the correct height. I also had to cut a vertical slit down the rear wing on one side about 1" behind the door opening, to get the rear door gap correct. It's an easy solution if one makes a mess of the B post position as I did on my 1971 car!

GuyW

The rear wing repair section, I know where you guys are coming from now, I will rectify on Monday. I have trial fitted the door with the outer A post ( tacked the inner first ) A little fettling should be ok, welded in the A post. So should complete the outer A post on Monday.

Yojic

Plan for Monday rectification of rear wing/ B post, cut where marked on photos, if the gap is too big to weld, I may cut back further and put a plate insert in.

Yojic

Done a bit more this week, the door post was challenging, but done. The door gaps are not too bad. However, the bottom of the door skin and frame needs replacing. A little bit of fine filler required ( marked up on photo of A post) How do I go about the lower door skin ( 150mm height) tack weld on the inside every 75mm to minimise distortion? Then fill the outer with body filler? Repaired the offside inner wheel arch (engine side) and flanges to new wheel arch section. Quite pleased with the door gaps, I think it came out good. Comments will be appreciated on good or bad. Dave

Yojic

Engine side of inner wheel arch.

Yojic

Looking good. You might have a high spot towards the top of the A pillar where there is the bare metal area? I had a couple of high spots on my A posts after I had sanded back the filler. I epoxy primed first and then built up the surrounding area with several coats of filler primer and sanded back to get it flat.

Chris Madge

Probably need the front wing in place before final shaping and flatting of the A post. But it's looking good. I suspect the door gaps are tighter than original, more like a modern car. But they look very tidy and as long as the gap to the A post clears as the door is swung open on its hinges I like the look of that.

GuyW

Yes, door gaps look good and all parallel. I suppose you may possibly have to run an angle grinder with a 3mm disc down the A post gap.

Bill Bretherton

Thanks guys, yes, the A post may need a bit more fettling, to get the wing on I need to repair the front valance. Halfway there with the valance at the moment, then I can finalise the A post. The door needs a bottom half door skin and bottom frame, but will do that when the wing is installed. No doubt the same will happen on the nearside. Originally I did not think there was much to do on the shell I bought but after a good look over 🧐 and starting on the offside, there is loads to do, basically rebuilding it. Will upload some photos tomorrow.

Yojic

Sorted the front valance out save for a bit of filler hear and there. Made a start on repairing the offside wing, tested my welding skills out with the gap, no problem with with the mig even though I had to chase a few holes 😂 still a bit to do on the flanges for the bolting. Should be ok with that, once that is done I will make a start on the nearside.

Yojic

Trial fitted the offside wing after repairing 🙈 little bit of work to do to line up at the A post and front valance. I know what to do as I saw the mistake when the valance was installed, so will repair in situ when the bonnet is lined up.

Yojic

Almost there with the wing and front valance on the offside. Regarding the gaps I ran a 1mm cutting disc down the A post, just a little minor filling to do. I think the A post and wing came out good in the end. Took me a day and a half to sort the wing out to bolt up correctly after altering the valance and making a new flange and insert to bolt to the wing. Oops the valance photo is 90 deg out!🤪

Yojic

Hi Dave, You seem to be make rapid progress! It's looking good. I found that by bending the where the nuts are welded to the wing you can get some small adjustment to the gap where the wing meets the A-post. Just helped me get it as best a I could. Can't think how many times I have been chasing holes when welding. It seems that once the old steel starts to go there is no stopping it. There's a point though where you think, should I stop and put in a new piece of metal! Keep up the good work. James

James Paul

I do like your tight gaps! They look very tidy. The one between front wing and A post now matches the A post to door gap. I hope the door clears as you swing it open on its hinges. I had to open out the gap there more than I expected, to get the door so it didn't scuff the edge of the A post as the door opened. Did closing up the A post to wing gap upset the match of the curve of the wheel arch between the wing and the front of the sill?

GuyW

Thanks guys, the gap on the sill and wing was Ok, today been sorting the wing out where it bolts onto the footwell ( new piece of flange and bracket ). Undersealed the inside of the wing before installation. Will fit tomorrow. Maybe a bit of filler to so there is a nice gap between the sill and wing but overall a good fit. Started on the offside bottom door skin, see how that goes. Hope it does not distort when spot welding the butt🤪 I know what you mean James regarding the tin worm, it happened when welding the bottom of the door frame 🤷🏻‍♂️ Chased a dam hole for about 25mm. 🤪

Yojic

Oh yes doors..I've got that to look forward to!! 🤪

James Paul

The originals often had much bigger gaps ! - my Heritage does - probably worn out tooling. Clearance can be an issue - paint thicknesses, hinge play etc. I have found it easier (but more expensive initially) to do a complete door reskin. As any distortion on the door does show and the time and effort to avoid the welding issues / filling / sanding /filling and still not being happy have lead me to the reskin. Very impressed with your progress to date and looking good. R.

richard b

I have tried repairing door skins with patches and its tricky not to distort the skin. How hard is it to re-skin Richard ?

Chris Madge

The solution is to joddle the skin once the bad bit is cut off and then use two part epoxy panel adhesive to glue the repair section, overlapping the top panel. The joddled flange makes the panel join a bit stiffer too.

Chris at Octarine Services

I will let you guys see the result once the part door skin is welded 🙈 As it is difficult to eliminate distortion, however there could be a way by either tack welding a 75mm strip behind or using a copper bar to take the heat away? Then again why not tack the strip and use the copper bar whilst tack welding fully anyway. We will see. If it fails, then a new door skin or second hand door ( would involve realigning the gaps again)

Yojic

Well guys repaired the offside door frame at the bottom and part door skin, the distortion was not too bad although I would expect a bit of filler. I ended up tacking a 50mm wide strip on the inside of the door over the butt weld before fully tack welding. This certainly minimised the distortion. The filler will be done in situ to sort out the gaps, so hopefully it should come out ok? We will see tomorrow.

Yojic

Hi Guys, Have not posted lately due to a personal health scare, as they say I am now part of the “Zipper Club” to be on the safe side I will not do anymore until July. That will give me a 15 week recovery period. Should be fully fit then. Dave

Yojic

Dave Hope all goes well for a full recovery Bob

Bob Beaumont

Take it easy Dave Hope all goes to plan-- willy

William Revit

Thanks, guys

Yojic

Hi Guys, Well onto recovery now after the big heath scare middle of March, still not quite right but it will take a few months to get my full health and strength back. OK done a bit more on the Midget offside panels. Those doors are a bugger to line up, still a bit of filler and fettling to do to make it good. Will do that when preparation for the primer. First to get all panel work and welding completed. Photo of offside (RH) front valence, front wing, A post, B post, cil and rear wing. What do you think guys? As mentioned a bit of filler to even gaps out but overall not bad. Thanks guys. OK 2nd photo is the front spring mounting, as can be seen it needs to be replaced. Bit of a dilemma though, took measurements from both sides from centre and there is 6mm difference. Is this normal? However, I will place the new one in the exact same place. Unless one of you guys can advise, to me they should be both the same for either side from centre but I maybe wrong. Thoughts please. Cheers Dave

Yojic

Manufacturing "tolerance". Rear axles often end up offset towards one side or the other. Then you either accept that as just how it is, or start trying to correct with washers between the spring mount and spring eye or with a Panhard rod.

GuyW

Welcome back Dave, good to see some more progress :)

Chris Madge

Door gaps look good to me Dave!

Bill Bretherton

Welcome back Dave. Like restoring a car restoring your health usually takes a lot longer than you'd imagine, so as with the car pace yourself and set realistic targets but don't worry if some sometimes they get missed as it can be swings and roundabouts. For the car, measurements on body that vary from side to side and front to rear that can be by up to around 1/2" aren't uncommon (millimetres might be being too precise!). :) I know less about bodywork than even the very little I know of the cars but from experience of a professionally 'factory' built Heritage shell I'd say be cautious of having the upsweep part of the cill too close to the wing as it might act as a water trap. On your photo that side looks fine but appears to get closer at the wheel arch, not too close (AFAIK) but the wider gapping further back is even better (AFAIK).

Nigel Atkins

Thanks for the heads up Nigel. Been working on the os spring mount today, bit of a bugger to do, levelled up at the front chassis rails the tacked the mount when levelled. Put in the same place where the old on came off. Don't look too close at the welding😂 had a bad day 🙈 still it will clean up with a grinder and flap disc. Gaps were a bit on the large size 🙄. The rear bulkhead will need a strip of sheet steel tacked in, then welded. Once all welding finished, will treat the inside bits, POR 15 ( any good?) prime and under-seal before welding the floor pan to close. One question, do the floor pans need fully welding to the inner sill? Think it would be better if they were.

Yojic

Hi Dave, Yes you do really need to make sure the floor is welded to the inner sill and transmission tunnel, cross member, front and rear bulkheads etc... Quite a few holes to drill and weld, but better that than end up driving like Fred Flintstone! Coming along well though. https://www.mgmidgetrestoration.com/2016/07/its-nearly-floor-time.html Good luck! James

James Paul

Well guys, done a bit more, in hind sight I should have left the outer sill off until the floor pan was welded in, also maybe should have replaced the whole floor instead of repair sections. NVM done now, but there is a bit of a gap between the inner sill and floor pan. So will have to weld the underside oops. This thin stuff is a bit of a twat to do as well as old steel. Still it's not going to fall apart🤪 Do the welds have to be welded both sides on the floor pan. Hope not!

Yojic

Will clean up the welds tomorrow. Here is another two photos. I would appreciate any comments positive or negative. At the moment lost my mojo with the welding as it looks like 💩 chasing holes and gaps again Can only improve though 😂

Yojic

Looking good Dave and there's a fair amount of work done there over the last day or two. Reading Nigel's comments about water ingress reminded me of a recent article in MASCOT where Alan Anstead reproduced Lawrence Slater's ideas on closing the sills to stop that very issue. May be worth a look, especially on line as A5 photos are getting a bit diddy for my older eyes.

Jeremy MkIII

Good thought Jeremy. I don't know if it was the same article or another idea, possibly 'ell's or Guy's, of some sort of drain tube from A-post(?) too, worth chasing up.

Nigel Atkins

Think it was Guy. It was mentioned earlier in the thread, I did drill two holes but neglected to weld a small tube to go through the sill 🙈 as the water that drains down the A post would go straight out. Thanks for the reminder, will write on the black board, oops not allowed to say that 🙄 chalk board, for when I do the K series. Talking about that I may have a chance on getting a T16 turbo engine. But need to get this one finished first 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yojic

Lawrence and I had a number of discussions and exchanges about various modifications I had done, and Lawrence then developed these further. I have added drain holes beneath the A post to drain it and reduce rusting. Mine just go into the sill, which then has extra holes at the bottom to drain it away. Lawrence developed on that idea by adding tubes through the sill part - a definite improvement. I did a quick release rad installation. Lawrence developed this to include part of the slam panel. I got the idea of inverting the sill closures from Paul MK1/MK4, who occasionally posts here, and l passed it on to Lawrence. That said, I doubt if any such ideas are now unique. These cars have been around for far to long and as cheap cars in the hands of self maintaining owners they have been constantly modified and experimented with over the years.

GuyW

I'm not sure about this, as I don't keep up with 'regulations' But a jobsworth MOT tester might not be happy with floors done with patches. Isn't there something about only replacing complete panels these days? Or maybe patches are ok but must be done with continuous seam welds, so those would be permitted

GuyW

Sorry Guy, you were in the back of my mind but I only remembered Alan's article. Not only eyesight which is failing...!

Jeremy MkIII

Hey, no apology needed, Jeremy. I wasn't offended in any way at all! There's no restriction on ideas and the best ones come from sharing and exchanging experience. Lawrence is always good at taking on ideas and improving on them.

GuyW

Guy - yes i have heard that about the MOT and patches. But how is that going to be enforced on a classic that will have passed previous MOTs with patches?

Chris Madge

I think this is the wording around welding repairs: "It is essential that repairs to corroded areas are properly carried out. Only welding is acceptable for repairs to 'prescribed areas'. Suitable materials of appropriate gauge and thickness should be used for repairs so that - Any plating or welding extends to a sound part of a load bearing component, and - The repair must be virtually as strong as the original structure So only a continuous seam weld is acceptable for patch repairs, although spot welded joints are acceptable where they originally existed. Welded repairs to highly stressed components such as steering/suspension arms, rods, levers etc are not normally acceptable." interpret that as you wish.......

Chris Madge

No idea Chris. Could they apply it retrosoectively? I know my cars have 'seams' where originals didn't but I do try and do them all with continuous bead welds if only to keep the water out! My welding is pretty variable. Its very satisfying when you flip the headshield up and there is a nice even weld and its even in the right place! But much more often than not its a matter of reaching for the angle grinder to take off yet more metal. The difficult bit is dressing back plug welds in inside corners where the grinder disk won't reach. Then its slow work with the air fed die grinder. Sorry Chris, cross posting there, but it sort of confirms. Dave's welded floors look ok then from that as they are seam welded except where they were originally spot welded around the edges.

GuyW

The retrospective thing has happened to me - for many years after "restoration" the lip where boot floor meets rear valance on my car was repaired with fibreglass, various MOT men quite happy with this until mid 90s when one decided it was within 12" of a suspension mounting point and had to be metal. Fortunately no further complaints since then on the mix of spot, seam and plug welds.

AdrianR

Back in the mid 1990s a mates 1500 Midget failed the MOT on a patch to the front of the footwell which the previous year had been OK but not after the regs changed requiring a full rather than stitch weld. Easily sorted with a trip home and a bit of time with the welder and later a new MOT.

David Billington

Hi Guys, Now there is a debate, repairing panels should not be a problem so long as you keep to the reg’s. For me, it is common sense to fully weld any butt welds. Regarding flushing plug welds, yes, tidy up, but in awkward places it is a bit of a pain, however, it will be covered up anyway. Completed welding the right hand floor, had to fully weld the underside where the inner sill and floor meets as there was too much of a gap. As you can see, some of the plug welds did not catch the inner sill when doing the outer sill. Therefore plugged from the inside to make good.

Yojic

Moved further back and started on the boot floor panel, bump stop and inner wing ( making ready to repair ) No surprises there, but more intricate panel work to do 🙄

Yojic

Another two photos, will start to attack the affected areas, first attack will be the inner wheel arch near the spring mount.

Yojic

Started on the RH rear inner sill! Oh dear, the bracket for the suspension arm was too corroded to get a half decent weld. Therefore, I replaced with 2mm sheet steel, also at the bottom section where it ties into the chassis frame I had to repair the 3mm flange. Once that was done I fabricated the inner flange on the cassis that ties into the spring mount end and the bump stop. Rather than cut all the suspension web out I welded a patch on it, with primer and under-seal on it, think it will be ok. Thoughts please.

Yojic

Other photos, will complete that section in the morning as my 4 1/2” grinder packed up. Two now in for repair 😢. Will need to fabricate a small flange for the web and tidy the welds up.

Yojic

Just make sure you do a thorough job injecting all those hidden box sections with anti corrosion fluids when the welding is done! It shows how little attention was given to this when they were built. My first 1500 was probably not a great deal better than your car, Dave. And at the time it was only 11 years old! Barely run in!

GuyW

Thanks Guy, I have the gun and attachment, off hand I cannot remember what anti corrosion treatment I bought for the box sections, will check tomorrow. Also need to figure out to access them especially the back end chassis ones. If not, is it allowed to drill a hole big enough for a tube and then plug with a grommet after treatment?

Yojic

LOL, I wasn't really telling you to do it. Quite unnecessary I am sure! I was injecting ever possibly place I could find on mine. I hope I've got it all done. Just aware that all that welding heat does a thorough job of burning off any paint inside the sections.

GuyW

Re. the angle grinder, it might be a break in the cable near where it enters the machine (assuming it wasn't an obvious mechanical problem). I've had that and fixed it quite quickly (with slightly shorter cable). It's annoying when tools go faulty though in the middle of a job - I had to fix my welder intermittent wire feed last week in the middle of some welding).

Bill Bretherton

Same here Bill, striped the mig welder down(wire feed and wire wheel spindle) greased the spindle a bit, all working fine now.

Yojic

Finished the welding on RH rear inner wing and sorted the bulkhead and arch out where it was a bit of a mess. Will use filler for aesthetic purposes on the cockpit side.

Yojic

Can you remember this?

Yojic

After removal it was a bit rotten and too thin to weld, therefore, I welded a patch on. I then fabricated a new bump stop out of 3mm sheet.

Yojic

Bump stop fully welded.

Yojic

OK Guy, this is what I used to spay inside the spring hanger mount area and the cassis rail back over the wheel arch. 😄. Allegedly good stuff to use this Bilt Hamber Dynax S-50. Similar to wax oil but apparently better.

Yojic

I used that when I rebuilt the Frogeye in 2009. No evidence of any rot but then it has a more pampered life now!!

Bob Beaumont

That Dynax S-50 is what I have been using. I will tell you in 20 years time if its any good! I got it in 750cl aerosol cans. They were doing a good deal on 6 cans of it. Very easy to use with the supplied long probe.

GuyW

It was only the other day when I was nearing the end of my chassis work where I watched a video on YouTube where the guy demonstrated how to avoid welding blow outs and chasing holes. He suggested holding the tip of the welding nozzle further away from the metal to reduce the heat at that point. Less heat, less chance of the old metal melting away. I did try it and it did seem to make it easier to place new weld into the hole to close up the hole and stabilise it. It also helps to reduce warping due to less heat being applied to the area. I found that having the tip about 5 to 6 cms away rather than the normal 1cm worked fairly well. This tip is only if you have blow outs in the old metal as you’ll want a good strong weld normally when welding. Just wish I’d learned the technique at the start of the project!!

James Paul

I found the 750cc aerosol cans of dynax-s50 very easy to use (which is a priority for me) but the 600mm application lance was sometimes just short of was needed without drilling more holes and orentining the long cans to get the dispersal on a fully assembled car was sometimes very awkward. But I'd guess it'd be a lot easier with a bare body shell and using the jerry can. I still get yellow Waxoyl dripping from being applied to the bootlid many years ago, fallen broken stalactites possibly proving that where I live is getting warmer over the years and/or the Waxoyl is migrating from where it originally went.

Nigel Atkins

James, that's an interesting welding tip. Are you talking about MIG or gas welding though? Surely with MIG the heat is generated where the wire strikes the spark on the metal, irrespective of how far away the gun is held. With the gun held away you would just disperse the gas shield more. I must be misunderstanding the method! Nigel, the problem I had with the spray lance was it detaching itself from the can. That could certainly be arranged better. To properly spread the spay pattern inside sills etc you need to rotate the can (and lance tube) through 360 degrees whilst spraying and that very easily detaches the tube. With rather messy results!

GuyW

James, I'm wondering about that welding method too (assuming MIG). I thought you were supposed to keep the torch tip as close to the work as possible, to get a good weld. Why not just turn the welder down to minimum current and keep the tip moving side to side along the gap so as to "stitch" it? Not that I'm any expert on this but always interested to hear about and learn a better technique!

Bill Bretherton

Guy, the lance stayed on the nozzle and can for me but there was no way I'd the aptitude to turn the can 360 so I used double runs of alternate 180s. Often space prevented much more than 90 degree swings so I probably saturated the areas with the bottom parts as rivers of the stuff. After drilling two more holes in the chassis sweeps that go over the rear wheel arches I discovered by the pools on the ground that the drain holes under the car in that area are for these bits of the chassis but I was happy not to be crawling under the car to access them. It was all a lot, lot less effort and mess and cleaning up than using Waxoyl which I now consider as the CB points equivalent to rust 'prevention'. BTW I owe, and here give, you a "thank you" as it was a previous recommendation of yours that finally prompted me to try dynax-s50.

Nigel Atkins

James, 5-6 cm from the arc🙈 that would produce an inferior weld, possibly leading to a lot of porosity especially with MIG welding. The idea of the CO2 or Inert gas is to protect the welding arc from oxygen (rust does not help either). So if you want a sound weld the tip needs to be close to the arc. The method I use, is stop and start for the area to cool down( even better if you have a copper strip at the back). Yes, it does not look pretty, but, you have a sound weld, I am sure you can see it on my welding ( even though it looks as if I squirted my butt there 😂). Not having a go, just an opinion. The main thing is, so long as the welds last, as I am sure they would no matter what technique is used.

Yojic

Very much an amateur, but I start with a bead a mm or two back from the edge of the hole to be filled. This gives some thickness to build off, laying down weld without blowing holes. Eventually the hole closes over and the grinder comes out with a flap disc to get it level again. Holes more than about 12mm across get a bit of steel shaped to fit.

GuyW

Lol Guy, with welding rust you are bound to get holes, sometimes you just cannot get rid of the rust without replacing the whole panel, you can go on and on! Yes, chasing the holes....... But, as you say if the holes get too large, sod it cut out and patch. My method is as mentioned stop/start in a circular movement, I find the hole fills up nearly all of the time. Enough of the welding tips 😂 Been at it today, the more you look the more you find, OS rear inner wheel arch, this lead to removing some of the boot floor near the wing and spring mount. Awkward to fabricate, can safely say not a heritage panel 😂. However, quite pleased with my effort and a snug fit, so only some sealer to go around the edge. Cannot weld to the rear wing now can I 😂😂. Thoughts please, (not the welding, I know it’s 💩)

Yojic

More photos 👍🏻 One more to come

Yojic

Close up of the awkward bit, snug fit though, around the wing. Instead of plug welding the flange where the clamps are I will run a seam weld on the top edge. The other flanges to be welded on other side and dressed up. Tomorrow, I will Close up the inner wheel arch then spray inside with anti corrosion after the inside of the wing has been primed (non accessible)

Yojic

Your work looks good to me Dave. And you work quickly!

Bill Bretherton

Thanks Bill, I just crack on when I am between contracts, just lately could not do any work (as you may know). Now making up for lost time.

Yojic

I used the Dynax-s50 on my car. Rather than use the aerosols I bought the larger container and sprayed with the air compressor using the oil sprayer that came with it. I needed to get the product warm before it would spray, but once warm it came out in a fine mist that goes pretty much everywhere and travels a fair distance too.

Chris Madge

Chris, I do believe you can thin it down, will check what with as I have the sheets in the workshop. Cannot immerse it hot water where I am, but as it is summer its not too bad with the compressor at the moment.

Yojic

Completed welding the OS rear inner wing repair and boot area save for the Dynax S-50, will do that when finished repairing the shell. Now started on the NS front engine area and A post (removal). Pretty much the same as the offside.

Yojic

More photos

Yojic

NS splash guard engine frame area

Yojic

A post to be removed as well as ns outer footwell, inner sill, outer sill etc. So here we are again🤪

Yojic

NS outer footwell to be repaired.

Yojic

Dave I warmed it up with a microwave carefully. It was fine. Just don't tell my wife ;)

Chris Madge

Chris 👍🏻 Never thought of that, I have a microwave in the workshop. 30 sec or 1 min?

Yojic

I warmed up about 1/2 pint for around 2 to 3 mins. It needed to be quite warm to spray with my setup. Just keep keep checking as you warm it up that its not getting too hot.

Chris Madge

Well guys, bit of a non productive week on the Midget. However, to keep my hand in, I made a domestic oil tank nothing to do with the Midget, but this happened to my mig welder, the torch was playing up when I restarted on the Midget ( porosity and the torch head was playing up) Cannot get new trigger grip for the harness without buying a new one🙄. Therefore, decided to upgrade to a euro harness ( parts are cheaper and easy to get, plus far more superior to the Clarke one!) So, I bought a conversion kit cheaper than the original Clarke. Should be delivered on Monday, but today I done some pre work for the modification. Back to the Midget, as you can see by the photos, it’s on the nearside, almost the same repairs are required as the offside. I will be putting the foot well, inside inner wing first then the floor pan and inner sill.

Yojic

Now my poor MIG/MAG welder....... Should be working great when the new harness is fitted 👍🏻 Do not know what the hole size is for the euro harness fitting yet. Will sort when it arrives.

Yojic

Theres nothing more annoying when you get into a job and have to stop to repair tools!

Chris Madge

Fixed the MIG/MAG welder, converted to a euro harness (Parker one). What a difference that has made, I can now hear the gas, whereas I could not before. Done some more on the Midget nearside the welding has improved significantly with the new harness 😄👍🏻. Here are some photos.

Yojic

Repaired and extended sonpme of the flanges to take plug welds for the floor pan. Footwell front welded, just need to flange for the inner sill to attach with plug welds. Same with the nearside bulkhead / wheel arch.

Yojic

Quite pleased with the welder now, should have converted it as soon as I bought it, nvm.

Yojic

I got a new Binzel style Euro torch for my ageing Murex MIG welder a while back. They are good as you say although I got a 3m length and could sometimes do with a 4m. Your welding is very good!

Bill Bretherton

Ye, Bill they are good, the Parker is a Binzel style 4m harness. I am no where as good as I used to be with welding, used to be a multi coded welder back in the day welding heavy steel and pipe with MMA, MIG/MAG, TIG and FCAW. Welding with all sorts of steels and exotic materials. But that was then..................

Yojic

I was taught to weld using oxy acetylene and still prefer that method when I can't get my spot welder in to make an original style weld. These days I pay others to suffer weld spatter!

Chris at Octarine Services

Lol Chris 😄 Done a bit more on the nearside floor pans and inner sill, the welding is much easier with that new harness. Photos attached.

Yojic

Inner sill, what I am going to do is drill a hole big enough to get the tube in to treat with anti corrosion between the foot rest and the bulkhead. Then seal with a grommet before I attach the outer sill. Nearside front floor pan almost complete apart from fully welding to the inner sill

Yojic

Other view of NS front floor pan NS outer footwell installed.

Yojic

NS rear repair section of floor pan to sill repaired. Sill to floor pan fully welded. Another productive day👍🏻

Yojic

Dave, Interesting to watch your progress. Some day in the far distant future, some archeologist will dig up your car and wonder if this was originally a three dimensional, metal, jigsaw puzzle, though, I'm sure it will outlast many other cars out there. ;-) Can't wait to see the finished product.

Martin

Thanks Martin 😂 I am hoping to get the shell painted in the next 3- 4 weeks, bit ambitious I know, but will give it a go.

Yojic

Dave, an original floor pan would have had an oval access hole at the front outer corner that would allow you to spray anti-rust into that footrest cavity. In fact the hole would be reinforced as it was also used to insert a toggle on the end of a cable as a tie-down for the shells when they were being transported. It's fascinating seeing your piece by piece refabrication! It much like looking at a rebuild of my Frogeye shell but displayed as a rapid time-lapse and with infinitely better welding!

GuyW

While you have easy access, I would consider welding in a duct to carry the fuel line, brake line & wiring harness all out of harms way.

Chris at Octarine Services

Chris, good idea for the fuel and brake lines as the original routing offers some (but not complete) protection but doesn't the wiring run inside the car along the o/s sill and hidden under the sill interior trim? ISTR Guy posting about that on his Sprite restoration?

Jeremy MkIII

Dave, dont forget to drill a drain hole in the trianglebit in the frontwheelarch!

A de Best

Points taken guys👍🏻 Chris, good point, 1” box section tacked inside the prop shaft well? A De, triangle bit front wheel arch.? Do you mean the sill closure plate? Thanks Guy for the reminder, 🙈 yep, forgot to do it. NVM will drill a hole through the outer sill and inner sill, treat, then patch the outer sill 🙄 Getting carried away...... NS Outer sill welded, photos attached.

Yojic

OMG - I hope the door lines up with the new outer sill - I would have got the A post in first and adjusted it with the door fitted and lined up with the B post before fitting the sill. My Sprite was done like yours and I have a half inch gap along the door to sill line ......

Chris at Octarine Services

Dave, as per Moss here - .'triangular web' 'Supporting inner side panel' . http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/triangular-web-supporting-inner-side-panel-lh-aha5403.html?assoc=139746

Nigel Atkins

Cheers Nigel, will attack with a drill 😂 Chris, don’t worry. Checked yesterday with a trial fit, A post and door after the sill was welded, should be ok with a bit of fettling 😅 ( lucky or it would have been a removal of the sill) 😂

Yojic

The triangle hole in the wheelarche. Thats a dirt and watertrap. The MG factory already made a hole there but yours is lost by the restaurationwork.

A de Best

Great welding - very jealous of your obvious skill!

Jeremy MkIII

It almost makes me want to do another complete resto!

Malcolm Le Chevalier

I could be wrong as often happens but I thought the slot hole was more inboard than where Arie has marked, I *think* it's also outside of the triangular floor cavity. I've never got around to drilling a hole there, how big would it need to be to also allow road chippings and other muck and debris out to drop through?

Nigel Atkins

The hole is approx. 1/2 inch in diameter and outboard of centre.

Chris at Octarine Services

In that case as mine's a Heritage shell perhaps mine is just missing weld as it's an oblong slot. I've never notice a half inch hole either side there but for very many years it's been black muck/crud over other black mud/crud so perhaps they're filled, I'll look next time I jack the front (if I remember).

Nigel Atkins

The hole needs to be at least 1/2 inch. I drilled mine a little smaller and it has a tendency to get blocked easily with road crud. I am amazed at how quickly you work Dave - well done!

Chris Madge

Thanks Chris 👍🏻 Ran out of gas for the mig welder as I used just over half a bottle of gas on that tank I did last week. However, when empty on Wednesday, took it back to the HobbyWeld outlet and got the deposit back. Ordered a 50 litre bottle of 95%Argon and 5% CO2 ( Adams Gases ) the old bottle was 20 litres saving £98 on the refills to use 50 litres, so that is a no brainer. Mind you it takes some lifting 😱. Anyway, carried on with the B post to rear wing repair section, what a pigs ear I made of that 😂 Still managed in the end ( had to cut some bad steel out to make good).

Yojic

Tried to fill large gap and after dressing I decided to cut it out and put a patch in it. Twice I may add 😂 what a bugger this was.

Yojic

The wheel arch was a bit of a pigs ear as well but after dressing and a bit of filler it will come good

Yojic

A post and door trial fitted, little bit of filler and it will be ok 😄 to fold the lip over on the A post outer skin I used a bit of wood and a G Clamp, it turned out ok 👍🏻

Yojic

The door does not quite line up with the sill, how to sort that one out as the door hinges are at their maximum?

Yojic

The door gap on the A post needed a little work, I folded a sheet of plate, cut to size and welded in at the 45deg section. The vertical gap needs a bit of work but generally ok. Little bit of filler on the B post and along the bottom of the door as it is about 5mm.

Yojic

Bottoms of doors often stick out. Yours does a little, but not as bad as many. Put a chock of wood between door and B post about half way up and push door at bottom to twist it inwards. A bit of brute force like this is the "skill" that was used at the factory!

GuyW

Thanks Guy will try that.👍🏻

Yojic

I thought the 'Factory way' was to stuff a timber into the door bottom from inside and use this to lever/twist them into position - with precision, brute strength and experience - simples ! R.

richard b

I am sure they used a variety of techniques based on the theme of wood and brute strength and experience. I think they chocked the door at various points and then leant/pushed,pulled/ kicked the door to twist it into shape. It may not be possible with the later wind up window doors to wedge the timber directly into the base of the door. The later doors that I have looked at had braise a the bottom rear corners and I did wonder if that was added to the folded outer skin after the shaping exercise to stop them springing back again.

GuyW

Interesting Guy about the braze at the bottom, I've only seen it on the top. I have used the timber method on both my 'B' and a Midget door - can't remember quite whatsize but ISRT 3x2. I am very impressed with the speed that Dave works and its a great thread to read each day. I have a slight problem at times with these very long threads with lots of pics, in that my Broadband (BT finest old copper !- no fibre here as yet)are at times quite slow to load and I wondered if after say 300 posts or so a 'Volume 2' was an idea worth thinking about - or is it only me in this outpost that has slow Internet. R.

richard b

Rich, it must be your area rather than copper for speed as we're only just gone over to fibre and there's been no noticeable difference in speed - but we've always been in a digital and quick area. I remember a BT engineer back in the later 80s(?) showing me some of the new digital network phone features being tested, possibly back in the days of short district dialing codes and possibly 5 digit numbers (I can't remember 4 digits and certainly not 3).

Nigel Atkins

I'm on a fibre but its not that quick as its really a hybrid, with the last section still in copper. I think it is around 14 mb/sec. Previously before the fibre it was barely 3mb/sec. I don't know if that is the reason, but this long thread is also getting slow for me now. I suspect its the number of photos on it, rather than simply the number of messages. No complaints though, its really good to follow!

GuyW

AFAIK it will be all the photos because of all their data density, be longer if it was videos. For me it takes 2 seconds for the page to load but that doesn't necessarily mean all the photos have loaded 'off screen'. I'm copper from property to at least just across the road and down the pole, so about 75ft, plus the internals. I think shorter sectioned threads might help but please don't think I'm whining about it. :) I don't exactly help to keep threads more concise. :)

Nigel Atkins

The photos really slow the loading down if you have them displayed by default, I don't use that option so only view images when I click on the image link. Still long threads do take a few moments to load and my connection is copper still and about 5mb/s which is pretty good for about 1.5 miles from the exchange.

David Billington

I'm on the same as Guy with fibre to the node and copper for the last 500 metres You can only get fibre to your home here if you live in a city that supports it , or by satelite if you have no land based internet available With my fibre to the node setup this thread is still loading instantly-- Maybe the dif. is--I have images hidden in settings and only open them to have a look if I want, all the old pics don't have to load up each time like this and i only have to click on image to open one if i want

William Revit

Obvious I guess, but I didn't realise that if you chose not to see images in line, you still got a link to them in the message. I assumed you just didn't get photos, so I have always selected to show the images, and that does slow things down quite a lot on longer threads. Just adjusted that selection and this long thread now opens instantly again. In this rural area there is a scheme just starting of local DIY installation of fibre network right to peoples houses. whole system is being installed by volunteers and landowners very economically rather than by the big companies. Started in N. Lancashire, called B4RN, it is now being extended to round here. Result is giving people near 1000 Mb/sec connections for £25 per month.

GuyW

I didnt realise you could get 50L from Hobbyweld. I might investigate that when I need to refill. I bet theres a heft deposit though? On the A post I added a bit of weld along the edge in places and used a flap wheel to sand back to get reasonable gaps. The bottom of those B pillars are tricky as they are prone to warping.

Chris Madge

SGS gases do rent free bottles. If you are not using a huge amount it works out cheaper than paying rental for a bottle that may be sitting unused for weeks. There is an initial deposit, though I was lucky and got mine without paying a deposit either as the local agent was trying to build up market share for a new business. https://www.sgsgases.co.uk/find-a-distributor/

GuyW

I too use SGS gas rent free although I had to pay a deposit initially. We have Virgin fibre here, copper to the house (coaxial) and, although more expensive than some, it's fast although there's the annual hassle of negotiating the price downwards. I confess that when the bbs was re-formatted mine continued without attachments showing so I didn't even think to check you could switch them on by default. For me, the thread loads in 3 or 4 seconds (it's just my typing that takes ages...) I always invert long threads.

Bill Bretherton

The HobbyWeld bottles are rent free, they just require a hefty deposit. They also come with their own regulators as they run at higher pressure. Been pleased with my bottle, seems to have lasted ages.

Chris Madge

Like you Bill I used to invert longer threads but you don't have to worry anymore Since Mike added the up/down arrows over on the rh side there, it's just a click and you're down the other end

William Revit

I'm getting a lot from this thread - even the drifts have been helpful and informative. We were often getting less than 1Mb on copper and 2.4 at the very best. They brought fibre to the nearest box 1.5 miles away but it didn't do anything for us. They did replace several lengths of overhead and underground cable, just one section at a time, of course, but the engineers were (are?) only allowed to replace 'like with like', so it was only ever the thinnest copper even when it was brand new. In February, mercifully just before the lock-down, we switched to a 4G system and the speed shot up to around 22Mb. Three of us have been able to work successfully from home, we'd never have coped at <1Mb. We're surrounded by trees which block the signal, so we've dropped to around 5Mb, still a luxury level compared with what we had previously. We can now actually stream iPlayer when there's nothing worth watching on normal TV.

C Mee

Willy, d'oh! I didn't know that and it's quicker than clicking "invert". I better not admit what I mostly did for a living!

Bill Bretherton

Absolutely brilliant Willy! Didn't realise the arrows did that - doh. No more inverting for me. We used to have Virgin Broadband with over 100Mb but changed as each month the bill was different (more costly usually), the final straw came when they removed a 'loyalty' bonus for staying with them. Now with Plusnet who are carp. It's advertised as fibre but is copper as it's the phone line which delivers the broadband. (The Virgin fibre lies unused in the garden). They guarantee 72Mbs but only to the router, there after it averages about 22Mbs, even when sat right on top of the router. As soon as the contract expires I'm off elsewhere. I may bite the bullet and go with Zen.

Jeremy MkIII

Hi Guys, Just to clarify, HobbyWeld does not do 50litre bottles their maximum is 20 litres. The one I have is from Adams Gases. It saves a whopping £98 on the refills! Regarding this thread, OK I will start volume 2 as it is getting rather long and I understand the frustrations although my fibre speed is +33mbps so not a problem for me. The tittle will be Restoration of an MG Midget Volume 2.

Yojic

Lol title😂

Yojic

This thread was discussed between 04/10/2019 and 03/08/2020

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.