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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - roof frame. . is it broken ?

hi. . .lining up the remaining jobs on the rebuild, and bolted the hood frame in today. Doesnt look quite right to me, the spar after the header is the issue, shouldn't that be vertical or at least not as flat as it is ??

The frame is off my previous car, which was suprisingly water tight, so i know its ok, but when i come to fit the hood it will be good to know that all is on my side before i start to struggle with the fitting. . . over to you experts


p bentley

That second spar does look very low.

If you were to draw a straight line between the header rail and the third spar, the second one should be higher than it, whereas yours looks to be lower.

Does anything look bent? It may be possible to bend it upwards, but there is always a danger of breaking something.
Dave O'Neill2

Push up on the side rails, directly below the front bow; should snap upward. The side rail has an upward arch when all is right. Frequently have problems if any of the joints are stiff, especially if frame has not been used in a while. If you use it with stiff joints, things bend or break, and is a PITA to fix, so penetrating oil is in order.

FRM
FR Millmore

Your second spar does indeed look too low. Here's a picture of mine - sorry not the best angle (and two of us trying to change a failed by pass hose) but it hopefully shows the second spar being a little higher (if you ignore the slight dip in it - now remedied!. As Dave says if you push up the bars below the spar it should elevate - that's also a useful technique when closing the hood as it improves the alignment of the hinges to the windscreen.


Jeremy 3

If yours is broken, --- it doesn't look broken to me --- I can sell you a VERY good one cheap, as I have a spare. Email me if you need it. slaterlpj@btconnect.com
Lawrence Slater

thanks for the advice. . .i will have a try at the suggestions, regards

Peter
p bentley

You have email Peter.
Lawrence Slater

sort of have the same problem myself, in fact it was a bit of a talking point at a recent SSNB meeting as two or three of us had the same problem. My side spar is also quite low, in fact it just catches the top of both my side windows, which I don't think should be right? maybe whoever fitted the hood previously may have cut it too short and I can't fully snap up the frame,I have a feeling the spar should snap upwards and make the hood a tighter drum so to speak. Wonder if someone has a new hood just fitted and can tell us their experience.
Dave.
DW Warren

Dave-
See my above. Stuck pivots are always the cause of this in my experience, Sometimes things get bent as a result of this, but usually the pivot rivets just break off after enough abuse (or the bars break at the pivot points = worse).

You have a huge leverage advantage when erecting the top, so it is not very obvious. Each link should have a faint play at each pivot. The side spar should certainly not hit the window, and should be above horizontal. The leverage ratios are such that if you can get the header to the windscreen, you can toggle the side rail into position, regardless of how taut the top cover.

Application of penetrating oil and working the frame up and down will soon result in rusty stuff dripping out of the pivots. The free ones will be obvious. The not free ones generally benefit from some tapping/twisting/prying, and more oil. I have spent several hours over several days getting these free at times. Note that some of the pivots are rivets free in both members, others are welded or press fit in one side. ONE seized pivot can make the entire thing INOP.

FRM
FR Millmore

When I put my soft top back on I always leave the bolts a little loose and then push up the side rails before tightening them. Pulls the hood nice and tight.
Alex G Matla

went out to the car and followed the various thoughts on what might be awry but nothing seems tight, or undertension, and when i fiddle and fold it back and forth it seems absolutely fine. . .so i have taken other pics to show if that might show if the alignment is good or bad. . . it seems to resemble a number of those pics sent in, so maybe i will just have to carry on with what i have. . . have a look and tell me what you think.

big thanks to those who have responded


p bentley

Doesn't look right to me. Obviously not broken, but could be bent.

Take a tootle over to me, and you can compare with my spare and the one on my car.
Lawrence Slater

thanks Lawrence, will do when its on the road. which shouldn't be too long now
p bentley

You have an unnatural looking kink in the metal side bar where it is circled in red on your photo, attached. Means that the pivot point for the second rail doesn't get pushed far enough forwards so that the rail isn't twisted into the proper upright position.

Easily corrected with a bit of dressing between two hammers or and bending with pliers until it is right


Guy

My car is awaiting its new soft top so I photographed it last night for you. Hope it helps.



Mike Howlett

gents. . .top work...greatly appreciate the wisdom and the attraction of getting the persuaders out of the tool box !

photos printed, will report back, thanks
p bentley

I agree with Guy. I noticed what looked like a kink in each of those links in your first set of photos, but didn't want to say anything until I'd looked at mine for a comparison. Guy and Mike have confirmed with their pics... I think you have a case of the bends. ;-)

Best,

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside


Agreed, bent linkage allowing the side pieces to drop down lower than they should be. Be careful when straightening the bent areas not to break the links at the rivet holes, a common weak area on these frames. I have a photo collection of that repair on flicker if you need to do that type of repair. Look for mgmidgetbill 's albums.
You'll also see some different angles of that area to help you figure out what the correct shape should be. Those links are not totally straight as I remember.


B Young

cheers guys. . . heat and hammers....bring on my Blacksmith & Smithy badge !
p bentley

This thread was discussed between 05/05/2012 and 16/05/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.