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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Shortened tail housing - Ford Type 9

I like to lay claim to having first had the idea to shorten the top/change section of the Ford Sierra type 9 to move the gear lever closer to the position of the original lever rather than have it sit a lot further back. However, I give credit to Guy for having actually fitted one first to a car. In fact I wasn't that happy with the first tail housing 'cut and shut' as when fitted to my 'spare' gearbox the selector rod was tight. So as 'evolution' gearbox built time got closer I cut through one of the welds which made the rod action smoother and eventually took it to a different welders to get it welded up.

However, at BGH Geartech they took when look at it and advised the welding process can leave the output shaft off-centre in the housing and thereby useless. Gulp. But, they did produce their own modified housing that would get the job done. Sure enough it was apparent that my modified housing had the shaft several mm off centre and so we used theirs.

It seems (I'll confirm details eventually) that they have a different process in producing their shortend shift tail housing that doesn't cause the distortion I experienced.

So, two things, when shortening a tail housing be careful you don't cause warping (correct word??) of the bottom section that will render it useless or with a permanent oil leak. Alternatively, you could buy one of their housings or spec it as part of a box build. Another alternative is to have a Hi-Gear tail housing which is cast with a shift position further forward.

Finally, for sale, a tail housing that might be salvageable with some work to get the bottom housing back to the point where it will centre on the shaft!
Daniel Stapleton

The way I got around the alignment problem was by reassembling the cut-down extension onto the gearbox and selector shaft. Then use the selector shaft itself to align the "turret" piece onto the truncated extension. It takes out the guesswork or need to fix datums on an irregularly shaped bit of casting! Fasten it there in position, whilst accurately aligned, using araldite, remove and get it welded.

The point about distortion when welding hadn't occurred to me but didn't turn out to be a problem. The thing easily forgotten is the small oil seal on the selector shaft which melts if not removed first!
Guy W

"I like to lay claim to having first had the idea to shorten the top/change section of the Ford Sierra type 9"

That's a big claim. :). There are plenty of cars -- other than Spridgets -- that now have T9 g/boxes in place of the original, and it seems reasonable to assume that someone else has shortened the extension to accomodate it without being inspired by an installation in a Spridget. One example is the Reliant Scimitar GTI, which also results in the lever being to far back if not altered. I have no idea when the first one was done, but I think plenty of people could lay claim to being "1st".

Maybe 1st in the Spridget world, is a more accurate claim?
Lawrence Slater

The real difficulty with the claim is in being the "first to have the idea". Now that is really hard to prove! How would anyone know when another person may have first thought about doing it?!
Guy W

I moved the gearstick on a Ford 4 speed box in about 1986 and I think the idea was not new then to do that type of operation. I even had a couple of universal joints in the set-up so the gearstick was offset like the A series box. It worked but I never used it in anger as I came across a Escort 1600GT box with the better ratios and put that in instead and altered the tunnel aperture as I didn't have time to pull the box apart to swap the extension housing.
David Billington

My Sprite was the 1st ever to be fitted with a Ford Type 9 (actually a modified Ford Type 9 in an non standard case etc) and the 2nd ever Sprite/midget and that was 19 years ago. I'll state that as a fact rather than a claim.....

I did drive the 1st ever Midget also the first ever Sprite/Midget that had a type 9 in it the day before mine became the 2nd ever conversion.

At that time, 19 years ago in 1994, people were still fitting Toyota T50 gearboxes in Spridgets.

I guess the nice thing about claiming anything is that it remains a claim rather than a fact!

A tail casing that moved the shift foward did exist before 1994 but the one I saw was also designed for a shorter output shaft (the whole tail casing was massively cut and shut) and I think was designed for use in a short oval hot rod.

There are plenty of cars other than the Spridget that have type 9s in them but that wasn't the case 19 years ago. The first cars to have a type 9 fitted as a modification was to my knowledge the Morris Minor and the second the Sprite/Midget. Even at that time people were still happily putting Toyota gearboxes in the Morris Minor.

I'd imagine people were putting the Sierra 5 speed in Ford Escorts before 19 years ago but given the gear lever only moved back about an inch I doubt they needed to shorten the tail housing.

Daniel Stapleton

I had an idea earlier and that is to use the 3 gear lever bolts to mount the cut off lever box. Basically make a channel that would mount to the top 4 bolts holding the extension housing in place and mount the lever box to that, having machined off the thickness of the channel material to compensate and keep the lever in the same place relative to the box internal features. So basically the lever box below the channel, the channel, then the gear lever fixing plate above, simples. Maybe tomorrow I'll do a bit of CAD (Cardboard Aided Design) while in the garage where I have a type 9 and spare extension housing and see how practical it actually looks but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Those bolts are easy to get as they're M10 x 1.5 which is common unlike the bellhousing bolts at M12 x 1.5.
David Billington

How can anyone possibly know for a fact that someone who doesn't frequent this community or mix with the racing fraternity, didn't fit a Type9 box in their spridget before they did? People have been shoving T9's in kit cars for yonks. The T9 box has been around for over 30 years (1982), and fords being what they were, T9's were in breakers yards for cheap money probably from 1983 lol. So claim or fact, I think it's a tall order to say you were first at this in a Spridget. Isn't the most obvious car to shove a T9 in is another earler ford with a 4 speed box? So I'd imagine it was in one of them long before being shoved in a moggie.

Loads of people who've owned Spridgets, who don't talk to other owners of Spridgets, have done all kinds of things over the years, often duplicating what someone else has done and thinking they are unique or the first. Of course it seems that someone has to be first, but I really don't see how anyone can make a justified claim to it.
Lawrence Slater

>>be careful you don't cause warping (correct word??) of the bottom section that will render it useless or with a permanent oil leak.<<

uhhhhmmm, funny that, my shorten box from the L*ing B*stards 'specialist experts' has a permanent leak
Nigel Atkins

Lawrence rather than pick an argument with me why not simply prove me wrong if you think I'm wrong.

None of the Spridget racing fraternity fitted Ford 5 speeds because for most classes you had to use the standard box which also was a lot lighter than any 5 speed.

It's also the case that fitting a Ford 5 speed to a Spridget isn't as easy as you might suppose and the Toyota conversions either used a unique casting (all of which originated in Australia) or a special adaptor back plate.

Fitting T9s in kit cars isn't particularly difficult if you used a Ford engine (especially a Sierra) to go with it as most kits did. Fitting a Ford T9 to an A-series is a different thing altogether and most kits haven't gone for the extra expense of an engine and gearbox from different manufacturers and in fact the general approach was to have a 'donor' car for the kit car.

I didn't say that Morris Minors had T9s before Fords - see my final paragraph but was talking about the issue of moving the shifter.

So I'll stand by my claim whether you like it or not and it seems you don't like it. Note that someone has to be first so why shouldn't I know about it and my car to have been the 2nd?
Daniel Stapleton

"The first cars to have a type 9 fitted as a modification was to my knowledge the Morris Minor and the second the Sprite/Midget."

--- "to my knowledge" --. Precisely. Unless you've done a survey of all the cars in the world to have had a T9 fitted, your knowledge isn't complete. I'm not picking an argument, as you seem to think. A bit prickly aren't you! I'm making a comment on your claims. I don't have to prove anything, your the one making the claims not me. You prove your right if you want to.

"It's also the case that fitting a Ford 5 speed to a Spridget isn't as easy as you might suppose". Depends what you mean by "fitting". I didn't find it that difficult actually. I confess, I used a bellhousing made by someone else, who also supplied the shortened prop and a clutch kit, But since the kit I bought, although very well made, had practically zero instructions, I had to work out how to fit it myself. To save my life, I reckon I could also have designed the bellhousing and had it made, as I've read that others have done.

"Note that someone has to be first". I agree someone has to be first. But tell me how you know for certain that nobody did it before you? You can't know that, you can only claim it. That leaves me and anyone else free to make a comment, which is what I'm doing. As to whether or not I like your claim. I neither like nor dislike it. Stop taking things so personally, -- if you are. :).
Lawrence Slater

I've staked a claim so anyone has a better claim needs to challenge my claim with facts or my claim stands. For anyone to say we don't like you claim or refute without saying why isn't worth any merit.

The difficult part about fitting a type 9 to an A-series is only difficult if you don't have a hybrid bellhousing or a modified bellhousing. I believe I know the origin of all of the original modified bell housings and the later cast hybrid bellhousing irrespective of who retails them as 'theirs'. I'm not aware that anyone made their own bellhousing to fit a type 9 to an A-series but if anyone has I'd like to see a photo and hear all about it because I've not read that anyone has done this.

Until the first Spridget was modified to take a type 9 and my car was the 2nd, everyone fitted a Toyota gearbox either because they used a hybrid bellhousing cast in Australia and imported to the UK, or at a later date used a conversion kit that used a special adaptor backplate. In the USA everyone used a Datsun box with a special backplate made by one of two different companies.

Those are the facts which I'm presenting and if anyone, such as yourself, has other facts they should present them as alternative facts. I'm certain of my facts because I've actively sought out and collected information on modified Spridgets and parts for them, worldwide from the mid 1980s onwards. I was regularly in contact with diverse specialist companies from that time onwars and one product I was always particularly interested in was gearbox conversions. I held back from the Toyota conversion for various reasons but was in from the start with the type 9, my car being the 2nd car onwards to get it. I've often given specialist Spridget parts manufacturers my ideas which in at least one case I was never given credit for so ever since I will make a public claim for what I know or what I know I've done.
Daniel Stapleton

LOLOLOL. Like it matters that much, if at all. I can't really see why it bothers you so much. Have you lost money on the rights or something? Well if it makes someone feel good to be acclaimed as the first to put a T9 in a Spridget, go for it. You're probably safe because "surprisingly", not every Spridget owner past and present, bothers to keep up with the postings on this or other BBS's.

But actually your original claim -- in this thread anyway -- wasn't about being the 1st to fit a T9 in a Spridget. ---- "I like to lay claim to having first had the idea to shorten the top/change section of the Ford Sierra type 9 to move the gear lever closer to the position of the original lever rather than have it sit a lot further back."

No doubt your still sticking to that too. For the reasons I gave earlier, I doubt you were the 1st, but if it makes you feel good you're probably safe with that one too. I doubt the bloke who 1st shortened a T9 extension to shove in his "non-Spridget", will search you out, or even care. :). I also doubt that the 1st bloke to "have the idea", even if he didn't actually follow it through, will chase after you for the credit either. lol.

Lawrence Slater

When I shortened the selector extension on my T9 box I "invented" the method. By this I mean that I didn't get the idea from anyone else. I hadn't seen another one shortened, hadn't discussed or read about the possibility and in fact at that stage hadn't even seen another T9 installation in anything other than the Sierras in the local scrapyard! The idea and method for shortening was new to me, and not acquired from anyone else.

But on stripping down a T9 box it is very obvious that one should be able to cut and shut the selector support part, without interfering in any way with the main output shaft housing, output bearing or oil seal. Anyone who looks at a T9 and sees the waisted section on the selector shaft housing must think there may be a possibility of cutting that bit out. It is almost designed that way! From there on, it is merely a matter of working out a method that can achieve this whilst maintaining the relative alignment of the parts so that the operation remains smooth and accurate. And then deciding if, for you, it is worth the work involved.

I have shared my notes and photos with numerous people since I did mine, and I was happy to do that. I am interested in supporting the low cost DIY approach to dealing with such problems although I know that my information has been passed to commercial firms who now offer a similar service, at a considerable price. And that is my only regret regarding this. But for the reasons stated above I cannot claim that they or anyone else wouldn't have thought of it anyway!




Guy W

hahahahahahahaha

that is all

First in your town perhaps...
Pete Moreland-Moore

Looks like we've got the same B&D workmate Guy. Got mine from B&Q in a special xmas sale, sometime in the early 80's. A true bargain, and very very useful, as you demonstrate nicely below. :). I'm actually amazed at how long mine's lasted considering the things I've used it for.

Who invented that? Was it B&D, or were they the first with a patent? :)

Edit. it was this chap. Cheers Ron. :)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1358121/Workmate-inventor-DIY-possible-millions-dead-78.html
Lawrence Slater

David, just read your post again.

"I had an idea earlier and that is to use the 3 gear lever bolts to mount the cut off lever box."

That sounds like a real winner. Have you knocked up a sketch yet? You'd better patent it quick. :). I think I'll take a look at my spare T9 box and see what it looks like in the flesh. If it's as "easy" as you describe, it could make for a much simpler process.
Lawrence Slater

David's idea avoids having to weld alloy and also the possibility of heat distortion in the tailshaft housing that Daniel mentions. But I doubt it would be as good.

It introduces another component that needs to be made pretty accurately in order to hold the extension turret in precisely the right position and orientation (accuracy needed is to a few 'thou ".) And there is the possibility of flexing in the bracket in use. Using the selector shaft to position the bit to be welded back on is easy enough and ensures alignment accuracy. Welding costs next to nothing - or nothing at all, in my case. ;-)
Guy W

Hi Lawrence,

I read your reply with interest and along with your previous replys think think they could be readily summarised as follows:

Surely anybody other than Daniel Stapleton must have thought of fitting a shortened tail casing to a T9 that they fitted to an A-series in a Spridget even though Daniel Stapleton had the 2nd ever Spridget converted to take a T9 on an A-series and worked with the person who did the first. Not to mention that Daniel had regular contact with two aftermarket Ford gearbox specialists.

Your further thoughts might be summarised as follows:

In fact surely anybody other than Daniel Stapleton and the person he claims was the first to ever fit a T9 to a A-series in a Spridget must have done this before him even though at that time Daniel did his conversion everyone else was fitting Toyota gearboxes to A-series engines in Spridgets.

Other thoughts might be:

My doubts are based on hoping anyone other than Daniel Stapleton being first even though I can’t find anything to support my doubts and hopes so I’ll simply assert them anyway
Daniel Stapleton

Guy,
luckily I'm a very forgiving person despite the misery and cost you have indirectly caused me by - >>although I know that my information has been passed to commercial firms who now offer a similar service, at a considerable price.<<

please in future be more careful about 'specialist experts' commercial con-artists getting hold of and using your ideas
Nigel Atkins

Daniel,

I don't think the fact that you moved the gear lever position forward on a type 9 is particularly pertinent. I did it on a Ford 4 speed type 2 gearbox in 1986 and the extension housing on that is a very similar design but a bit smaller, the process is the same regardless of the actual gearbox type the work is done on. I wouldn't claim to be the first but don't know of anyone else that had but then information was harder to come by in the pre-internet age. The type 9 was based IIRC on the Ford type E gearbox, I think sometimes called the rocket box, and that again has a very similar extension housing and might easily be shortened as like the type 9 has the gear lever around 3" further back than the A series box or the 4 speed type 2.
David Billington

Hi Daniel,

I've read your latest post and can sumarise as follows. ---- Your suffering from status anxiety coupled with a persecution complex. Lol.

Going back to the opening line in your original post, what was the motivation behind that anyway? Why did you feel the need to make this claim publicly in the first place? Has someone other than me questioned your claim(s)? Or perhaps even more painful for you, someone else has made a prior claim to have been the first?

Since I don't know you, had never heard of you until reading your posts on here, and have never read your book(s), what possible motivation can I have for "hoping anyone other than Daniel Stapleton" was the first at what he claims? I'm sorry to disappoint you, but with the very greatest respect, you don't figure that much in my thoughts. :).

I would also add, it seems to me that there's more evidence(that I'm aware of) for the existence of a god, than there is for your claims, and yet I'm an aethiest. I just can't help being a "doubting thomas".

Imagine I was on a jury, and the only evidence you submitted was your uncorroborated testimony. Should I just take your word for it? I haven't said you weren't the first, I can't possibly know for a fact if you were or weren't. Just as you can't. I've just expressed my doubt. Why do you care so much?
Lawrence Slater

Hi Lawrence,
Your opening comments might be of value if you were a psychiatrist but I suspect you’re not. If you explain why you need to challenge my claim I’d explain why I made it. No, wait, I gave you the courtesy of an explanation why I made a claim but you’ve never given one for challenging it. No prior claim’s I’m aware of but you did seem to think you could find one somewhere but have yet to produce anything.

I can tell you’ve never read my books because if you had you’d have already been aware of the history of gearbox swaps into the Sprite/Midget. What possible motivation could you have for challenging my claim – who can tell – a psychiatrist?

I’m not an atheist, but do know how to spell it and know the difference between an atheist and agnostic, and do know that ‘doubting Thomas’ did believe in God, he simply didn’t believe in the resurrection.

Before anyone on a jury would consider any evidence a prosecutor would first have to consider if there was enough evidence to make a case with a realistic prospect of it being won, that it was in the public interest to seek a prosecution, and so get the case to court.

I see things quite simply that I made a claim and you challenged it without giving any valid reason or evidence or basis for the challenge to that claim other than you didn’t like the claim being made. No-one has made a counter claim so mine is the only claim. I don’t care if you don’t like my claim. I’d rather be right than wrong though being wrong always has the advantage in presenting an opportunity to learn something new and I like to learn new things.

Why do I care so much – I’ve already given reasons but why do you care so much – you haven’t said. You expressed a doubt and I did my best to address those doubts which seemed to me a reasonable response. There actually is a great deal of evidence to support my claims and an absence of any evidence to refute them and no counter claims.
Daniel Stapleton

this thread reminds me of something....


Pete Moreland-Moore

All good fun, and all that, but this thread is going nowhere. The initial claim was interesting, but rather strange and no real reason given for making it. Latter comments also interesting but not adding significant claim or counter claim to the originality of this modification by its poster. So



J L HEAP

Nobody else joining the party? Oh well. Many threads on here are fun at some point in their existence. This one borders on being a humorous waste of time :). I like the monkeys though. Which one is me? It can't be the one with the hat, I haven't got a white enough hanky to waive. LOLOL

How old are you Daniel? I suspect pretty ancient like me. A bit childish piking up speling miscakes isn't it?. Uups I speled that rong dint I :). If I were to be picky about your posts, I might pick you up on your very first one for example. Do you know how to spell "shortened", or "build" ? As for as my diagnosis of you, actually I consulted my shrink about you heh heh. He said you were in need of an ego boost, and are prone to making claims that nobody, including you, can prove, and probably made outrageous claims at school to get noticed. LOL. But anyway, I'm glad you've conceded the point and admit you might need help, by saying, -- "Your opening comments might be of value if you were a psychiatrist but I suspect you’re not." -- Quite right too, but I know a top counselling psychologist, and he's willing to see you at short notice. LOL.

Ok, you're asking me why I challenged you. But why are you only answering my posts, whilst ignoring the comments of others that aren't wholly sympathetic to your claims? Is it something about me you don't like? Why have you got it in for me? Whaaaa, I'm upset now. I going to tell my mum that a nasty man is picking on me. LOLOLOL. Why did I comment on your claim? Because you made, imho, a silly claim. -- "I like to lay claim to having first had the idea --- etc", -- on a public forum, and can't possibly prove it. I, being free to write what I like, responded. It amused me to exercise my freedom. As I said earlier, stop taking it so personally. Just as you are of no import to me, I'm quite certain I'm of no import to you. And look at it this way. I'm doing you a favour. If I hadn't doubted you, this thread would have died a death very quickly, and your claims wouldn't be getting so many mentions. I'm sure it's good for your ego. Lol. So why are you so touchy about this? No doubt you won't answer that, since you don't like answering certain questions do you! I'll try again though.

Why did you feel the need to make the claim in the first place? Do you really honestly believe you were the first person in the world to ever think about shortening a T9 gear lever extension? Maybe they even thought about it in the Ford factory for some reason. Why haven't you made the claims here before? Or maybe you have and I wasn't paying attention. Maybe, and I suspect they might be, they're in your book. ;).

But let's analyse exactly what you've claimed here, in the order in which you made the claims, and the confusing nature of them. Humour me, I'm easily confused. LOL.

First you say. – "I like to lay claim to having first had the idea to shorten the top/change section of the Ford Sierra type 9 to move the gear lever closer to the position of the original lever rather than have it sit a lot further back. However, I give credit to Guy for having actually fitted one first to a car." ---. Guy (sorry to drag you in Guy) says he thought of doing it independently without reference to anybody else. As you say that Guy was the first to fit one, you must concede that he thought about it too. So if Guy was able to think of it, it's reasonable to suppose that others might have too, and that they might well have thought about it before you did. And if they thought about it before you did, it's also reasonable to suppose that someone might have acted on it before you did.

You then say, -- "A tail casing that moved the shift foward (WHOOPS another spelling naughty of yours there Daniel , ha ha how childish of me) did exist before 1994 but the one I saw was also designed for a shorter output shaft (the whole tail casing was massively cut and shut) and I think was designed for use in a short oval hot rod." -- So again you admit that someone moved the lever position forward on a T9 box by altering the gearbox in some way. That action must have been preceded by an idea, -- an idea that occurred to someone prior to your own idea. Or maybe you gave that person the idea too?

Then you say, -- "There are plenty of cars other than the Spridget that have type 9s in them but that wasn't the case 19 years ago. The first cars to have a type 9 fitted as a modification was to my knowledge the Morris Minor and the second the Sprite/Midget. " –-- Huh? But you've just said that a hot rod had a modified type 9 fitted prior to 1994. So which was it? The Moggie or the Rod? And if a Rod had one fitted, how can you possibly rule out the possibility that some other car also had one fitted prior to 1994.

And the answer is, you don’t rule it out. You admit it, thereby refuting your own claim that Moggies had the first Type 9s in them as modifications. -- "I'd imagine people were putting the Sierra 5 speed in Ford Escorts before 19 years ago but given the gear lever only moved back about an inch I doubt they needed to shorten the tail housing.

Then you write -- " I didn't say that Morris Minors had T9s before Fords - see my final paragraph but was talking about the issue of moving the shifter." -- Funny that, I thought what you wrote was quite clear on that point --- "The first cars to have a type 9 fitted as a modification was to my knowledge the Morris Minor and the second the Sprite/Midget."

But let's stick to "the shifter". I gave you the example of the Reliant Scimitar, into which at least one person has put a Type 9. This also results in the lever being too far back if not altered. The Scimitar has been around for longer than the type 9 box, so it's quite reasonable to suppose that someone might have wanted a T9 when they became available, in one quite a while ago, -- even before 1994. And there must be other cars of the era into which someone at least THOUGHT(aka idea) about fitting a T9 box and moving the gear lever.

Preceded by a smile, I wrote, "Maybe 1st in the Spridget world, is a more accurate claim?" – Emphasis on the word maybe there. You took umbrage at that. Why? What do you care what I think?

Anyway, here's an(other) opportunity for you to make it all clear, and make your claim(s) in a precise way.

Apart from being the 1st person in the entire world ever to think of shortening the gear lever extension on a ford Type 9 gear box, exactly what else are you claiming?




---------------------------------------------------
Oh and before you ask. I've written this lot coz it's raining, and I don't fancy going out LOL.


Lawrence Slater

How's that Damask red(in parts) MG of yours coming on Lawrence?
Guy W

Stops and starts Guy. Not under the bloody thing welding anymore though. :). Structural stuff all done now, and all mechanical stuff pretty well done too bar a tune up on the engine. I'm on the drivers side front wing at the mo' welding a few places with home made patches. I'm quite pleased at the results. Hoping to make a start on the drivers door tomorrow or next day. That leaves the passenger wing under the headlamp, and the boot lid and bonnet in the usual places.

Plenty of Bonda primer used too. So it's beginning to look less and less damask every day. lol.
Lawrence Slater

;-)
Guy W

Hi Lawrence,

A wiser person than myself, once stated that they had a policy of not answerings posts by two people that regularly frequent this board. From memory you were one of the people they named. I think I'll follow their example but not claim to have thought of this idea at alll let alone before them.

However, I'll make an exception (they too on occasion made exceptions) if you can find anyone who fitted a Ford type 9 (or N or Nine) in a Spridget that had an A-series engine before myself other than the person I know was first. I'll also make an exception if you can find anyone who shortened the shift section of the tail housing on a type 9 for fitting to a Spridget (or any other car) before Guy, or had the idea before Guy and myself.

Why does this matter, well why not? It's a free country and if want to make a claim I can. If someone wants to challenge my claim I can defend my claim or ignore the challenge. Most of your replies say that I ought to provide evidence to support my claim without bringing any evidence for a counter claim. My claims stand unless you or anyone else can prove me wrong and I don't mind being wrong if I can learn something new.

Daniel Stapleton

Just a note, Daniel,:
"if you can find anyone who shortened the shift section of the tail housing on a type 9 for fitting to a Spridget (or any other car) before Guy"

I have never claimed this, or stated it.

What I said is that:
"When I shortened the selector extension on my T9 box I "invented" the method. By this I mean that I didn't get the idea from anyone else. I hadn't seen another one shortened, hadn't discussed or read about the possibility"

I didn't claim that no one else had done it before me, just that I didn't copy the idea from anyone else. I have no idea if anyone else had done it before me, and to me it doesn't matter one iota if they had! Its just that to me, it was a fresh idea.

It all seems something of a futile discussion.
Guy W

I completely agree Guy, it's entirely futile. Especially when the protagonist(Daniel) avoids answering the questions by blustering, and changing the subject, -- to me. Ho ho..

Evasion. Always a good refuge that. Eh Daniel? LOL.

So you're going to ignore me. Does this mean we're not friends anymore? Ha ha. Well no worries, but I'll always reply to you, it's only polite. :).

No daniel, your claims only interest me to the extent that I doubt them. They don't interest me enough to bother to look for evidence to refute them. So your ego's safe with me LOL. Just a quickie though, coz I'm curious, and I have a little time to waste.

Why didn't you make this claim on here back in 1999, when you had the opportunity to? --- Midget and Sprite Technical Archive 1999. "5-speed box for Midget" Last post 26 October 1999. ---

In reply to others in that post, all you said was, -- "The Ford type 9 box was fitted into some Capris as well as the Sierra albeit with a different (would need to be changed)input shaft".

I'd have thought you would have wished to dazzle and impress everyone back then, as now, with the originallity and brilliance of your thought. But it seems not. Why's that then? :).

Anyway, as I said earlier, if it makes you feel good to make these claims, do it. :). Yes your claims stand(unproven). Bully for you then. Now all T9/Spridget g/box converts can be grateful that one Daniel stapleton saved us all from the ribcase. Praise be on high LOLOLOL.
Lawrence Slater

Oh dear, I really opened a can of worms here. I knew T9's had been fitted to Moggies many years ago, and Scimitars but the first instance of a shortened gear lever housing I came across was on an Avenger or Sunbeam. Sadly, the info on this disapeared from the web many moons ago, hence my question on here.

Many thanks to Guy for sending details to me and my apologies for not thanking you sooner.

Now, can I claim to be the first to cut a hole in the tranny tunnel so I could remove the gearbox side plate and flick the bastard box out of first gear, in which it was stuck?
Clive Berry

Clive, isn't there a joke about a Sunbeam(not the car)?

Anyway, if you want to claim being first to cut a hole to get it out of first gear; Can I claim to be the first to take the engine and g/box out in a german village, and then on a Greek building site(Crete) both circa September 1981, in order to do the same thing to a ribcase box? lol
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 12/10/2013 and 22/10/2013

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