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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Space saver - How to

Right - one to get your collective brains on please.

Fortune favours those who keep their eyes peeled, so strolling around the Granite City of a lunchtime yesterday, I came across 13 inch space saver wheel lying next to a large refuse bin. I walked past it initially thinking it may not be someone else's junk, but today it was still there, so recycling fan that I am officer, I helped myself. It would fit in the boot very nicely.....

Tyre and rim are fine, and dimensions are as follows. Centre bore is @ 58mm, PCD 4 x 98, offset no idea. midget PCD is 4 x 4" so this seems the main stumbling block if it is to be of any use.

Initial thoughts

Obtain a thick 4 x 4" spacer, maybe 4 x 100 (more common, but not right I know). Machine c/s holes for the 4 x 98.

I foget now how the wheels are located onto the hub, presumably would also require a correct bore for that, and a raised hub of OD of 58 for the space saver to locate correctly....I can see machining costs mounting though unless I can adapt something off the shelf.


Any other clues as to how the space saver may be (cost effectively!) utilized before I make a trip to the tip.




Oggers

I'd be tempted to put it back again.

If you want a 13" space saver, get an A35 3" rim.
Dave O'Neill 2

IIRC 4 x 98mm is largely FIAT group products and other vehicles that share the platform and components as that was what my Lancia Beta and Delta used.

I was lucky years ago to acquire 5 Xacton alloys for my frogeye from a FSO Polonez and they had enough meat to machine for inserts to adapt from Ford 4.25" (108mm) PCD to 4" (101.6mm) PCD. I've not seen space savers in anything but steel so I think PCD change might be more tricky.
David Billington

This site may help you.

Mini is 4 x 101.6mm

Look under Rover

https://www.carlsalter.com/wheel_fitments.html

K Hughes

suggestion--
make up(or buy from a wheel retailer) a locating ring to suit your hub and with a 58mm od----These rings are used for fitting aftermarket alloy wheels to various cars and most tyre/wheel retailers stock several sizes
They are usually alloy or plastic
now,-98mm X 4"
=-98mm x 101.6mm---so 3.6mm difference pcd.
which means the studs are only 1.8mm further in----With the wheel centrally located on the 58mm od sleeve and studs only 1.8 mm out of line you would be able to bolt that up with wobble nuts, The set I got for my VW off ebay were advertised for up to 2mm difference
Hope this helps
willy
If you do go this way make sure the spacer ring has a flange on it so it can't work it's way out of the hole
William Revit

Get one of these.

Leave the wheel/tyre by a skip... :)



Jeremy MkIII

Why bother with a spacesaver - why bother with a spare, have a manual foot pump and separate reliable gauge.

Spacesavers are to get you home only and not fun to use for that either. Usually a foot pump can get you home if not use your breakdown service included in with your car insurance.

Nigel Atkins

I haven't carried a spare in any of my Spridget cars since 1987. When I eventually get caught out I think the cash I have saved in fuel with the weight saving will far outweigh any breakdown costs.
GuyW

Following on from Willie's suggestion, how about using a rat-tailed file to ease the 4 bolt holes outwards so that it will fit directly onto the studs. With the PCD being only 1.8mm out per stud and allowing for existing clearance you probably only need to take a mm or less off each one. Don't then use nuts diectly as they will stress the studs sideways as the nut cone tightens into the now off-set bolt recess.

Get a standard Spridget wheel and cut the centre out as a disc, about 6" to 7" diameter. Put the "adjusted" wheel onto the studs, followed by the 6" disc and then use wheel nuts as normal so that the wheel is clamped between the disc and hub. You could just leave it at that, or you could run some weld beads around the outer edge of the disc whilst it is clamped up so that it centres properly. But take care about overheating and possible distortion.
GuyW

I should have added if trying this, that you will need to check that the wheel nuts still get their proper 1.5 X stud diameter of thread contact. You might need to fit longer studs, but I think this unlikely as you are not adding that much extra metal thickness to the wheel. But it's still worth checking.
GuyW

Foot pump or repair can no good if this happens - especially on a French motorway with a ferry to catch!

Also glad I had dumped the space saver wheel in favour of a full sized one!


Chris at Octarine Services

Chris,
that doesn't look like it's off a lightweight and/or classic though.

It doesn't look like the usual puncture or pothole damage, what's the story with that then?
Nigel Atkins

It's from a Rover 75 - picked up a puncture in the centre of the tread, front pass side (offside in France) and the tyre went flat before I could slow down and pull onto the hard shoulder.

I was amazed at the level of destruction in such a short period of time and there was minimal pulling to one side, by time I felt it the damage was done.

Fortunately there was a "layby" so I could change the wheel in safety.
Chris at Octarine Services

I don't run with a spare. Can't get a 13 inch wheel over the brakes, can't fit a 14 inch with a 185 tyre on in the boot.

Please don't modify a PCD without at least a centre spigot to keep everything concentric. 14 x 3.5 inch Morris Minor wheels are everywhere if you don't want a Rostyle and will take a 155 tyre, sidewall height to suit.
Rob Armstrong

“Usually a foot pump can get you home if not use your breakdown service...”

It used to be the case that breakdown services would only help if you had a serviceable spare.
Dave O'Neill 2

True some did but it's no longer the case as many cars now come without a spare wheel (and jack and brace) to save weight, fuel and inconvenience.

And take for instance something like a Porsche with a spacesaver wheel, once this has been fitted to the car the original wheel is too large to fit in the space previously occupied by the spacesaver and won't fit anywhere else so the recovery service is called anyway, in this instance making the spacesaver - a waste of space. ;)
Nigel Atkins

The problem with the breakdown service though is that they will just go to the nearest tyre place and get a new tyre put on which will probably cost you twice as much as if you sourced the tyre yourself.

Trev
T Mason

Yeah but that's just life - all about the statistical odds and your luck. In 40 years of driving and being a passenger in various vehicles only once have I been with a puncture that that couldn't be sorted to get me home in that vehicle easily and safely.

I once put a spacesaver on a MX-5 and noticed the difference when braking normally on it in town, the car and tyre were both less than a year old, the tyre was accurately inflated to the correct pressure as were the other three standard sized tyres. That was the one and only time I used a spacesaver on the road.
Nigel Atkins

Well, Guy wins the cigar and Willie wins the cigarillo. Expanding on Guy's suggestion and noting Rob's comment, what spacer/spigot bore should I have to locate the space saver?
Oggers

Modern cars always have the wheel centred onto the axle or hub by having a precisely centred machined spigot and this centres the wheel rather than the bolts or studs.

I am not convinced that the Spridget hubs are designed quite as precisely in that way as they rely on sufficiently accurate positioning of the studs. Or at least as accurately as was deemed necessary at the time of design.
GuyW

This thread was discussed between 13/11/2018 and 15/11/2018

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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