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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Spin-on Oil Filter Conversions

Do we like this modification? I've always hated the job of changing the oil filter - a forearm covered in oil - twice - and not knowing whether the seal has sealed effectively until I turn over the engine and pump wholesome, plump and utterly inexperienced new oil onto the Axminster.

I thought the conversion might encourage me to do oil changes at the proper intervals.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I like it Nick. The 1275 I'm putting in the Frogeye was actually rebuilt by a local engine reconditioner and he added the spin on filter mod. I was going to rebuild it, after stripping it, but he's been building A series engines since Adam was a lad so I thought he'd do it better than I could. He also doesn't think you need to harden the valve seats for unleaded (hope that's not thread drift.....).

Bill
W Bretherton

My 1275 has it, and has never been a problem...i cant imagine using the old style

Correction... some times the filter takes a bit of a nudge to release .... but thats easy enough to force

Prop
1 Paper

Either change the filter type or paint the existing bowl gold - but not the same gold as the timing cover or engine or perhaps paint it blue or yellow - or just change the filter type.
Nigel Atkins

Like it a lot. Experienced the same problems as you Nick. Had non since converting though.
John Hutton

ETA: I changed over on my previous Spridget and didn't regret it or have any problems.
Nigel Atkins

One of the best mods going and makes filter changes easy...unless the filter gets stuck!

I have a spare spin-on filter head, if anyone wants one?
Dave O'Neill 2

I fitted one on my MGA and like it a lot so will fit on next oil change on the frogeye.
One word of warning - you need to ensure you get the right spin on canister. There are a lot of complaints out there and suggestions about grinding down the centre bolt so that the canister doesn't bottom out when screwed on and leak. But I found that as long as you buy the right filter that isn't proud at the screw end, there is no problem

Graham
Graham V

I did it years ago and have no regrets. Just unscrew the old one and screw a new one on.
Martin

Puzzled. By a "spin on filter mod" does this mean one that takes a modern style throw away oil filter, as opposed to the cartridge or paper filter that goes inside a permanent cannister? Dont all 1275s have the former and just the earlier engines use the cannister? Or is this mod something else?
GuyW

Yes, the spin on throw away modern style. My 1968 1275 came with the old canister type filter which is now sitting on a shelf in a plastic bag.
Martin

Yes please, Dave. I would like that spare head, if you can bear to part with it.

therowlatts at btinternet dot com

Going away later this morning for a couple of days, though.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I also thought all the 1275's had the 'spin-on' filter, but looking at the Parts Manual, the change came with the 12V engine series, with the changeover points as:

(E)12V/671Z/13812 ON
(E)12V/778F/393 ON

What year would that relate to?

Richard
Richard Wale

Yes, earlier 1275s had the metal canister with the bolt up the middle.

I think they changed about 1970/1.
Dave O'Neill 2

Another vote for the spin on head. I just used one from a later 1275 engine. It also fits the 948 I think but the original Frogeye engines had an angled filter head with the old type reusable canister if you wan to retain originality!
Bob Beaumont

Bob - I was about to ask a question on that topic. My filter head seems to have an extra bit not shown in the manual. Presumably so that the oil filter body misses something that isn't there on later models.

[note the colour]


Nick and Cherry Scoop

Mine's an April 71 and came from the factory with the spin off type.
The cannister type are a PITA especially the rubber gaskets which POs never seem to have changed and they're welded to the head.
Ironically my modern has a cannister type with separate paper filter - full circle it seems. Environmentally friendly or cheaper to produce?
Jeremy MkIII

Nick

Yep that's the jobby. By angling back there is more clearance above the chassis rail to get the filter head off. It was deleted on later cars and you had to fiddle about a bit more. Probably saved a bit on costs and I think the earlier arrangement had a greater risk of leakage.
Bob Beaumont

Me too!

I've now had my 1275 with spin-on filter for over 20 years yet I still recall the messy job of changing the canisters in my old A series engines: 1098 MG midget, MG 1100 and 1098 Mini Cooper........
Peter Blockley

Richard,
my reprint factory 1977 Parts Catalogue has different engine numbers to the ones you have, Terry Holer's book has from Oct '69 build 12CE-DA 10309 engine (not North America). My previous '69 Spridget had a canister when I first got it, I can't remember now which month it was originally built in.
Nigel Atkins

I have a spin-on adaptor that I was given years ago.

After the b*******g I got for dripping oil on the new tarmac at Loton due to drips from a not-quite tight canister centre bolt (probably should have used a spring washer!!) I'm planning on swapping to the spin-on.

My question is: can it be done with the engine in situ or is it an engine-out job? It looks as though it is possible once the dynamo is out of the way but I would like to be sure before embarking on it.
C Mee

I did mine with the engine in place. I don't remember if I moved the dynamo or not since it was years ago.
Martin

It can definitely be done with the engine in place.

In 1981, I was attempting to change the oil and filter on my first Midget. No matter what I did, I could not get the filter to move. I hadn't enough room for my dad's filter wrench, I tried putting a big screwdriver through the filter, but it still wouldn't move. In the end, I had to remove the filter head and hold it in the vice before I could get it to move.
Dave O'Neill 2

Just a thought if you make the conversion... watch the lengrh of the bolts you use ...if longer new hardware it can kiss the crankshaft journal on #1

0
1 Paper

Nigel,

My parts book is also the 1977 version and yes, there are 2 change points for the spin-on filter, and I picked the 2nd one!

The first uses a filter head (37H 7078) with long bolts, and looks very similar to the previous canister head. The changeover for that is:

(E)12CE/Da/H 10309 TO(+)
(E)12CJ/-/30847 TO(+)
(E)12V/588F/101 TO(+)
(E)12V/587Z/101 TO(+)
(E)12V/588F/101 TO(+)
(E)12V/671Z/101 TO 13811
(E)12V/778F/101 TO 392

The second changeover was to the smaller head (12A 2032), with the short bolts, and the later 12V engines. The second version was also used on the transverse Mini engines up to 1990's, and is the one most commonly found for sale.

The comment about bolt lengths is very valid, especially with the second version of the filter head.

2nd version picture below:

Richard



Richard Wale

Hi Richard,
TBH I didn't have my reading glasses on (I rarely do, they're far too expensive to wear out) and I didn't recognise some of the other numbers so thought they'd be non-UK cars. I thought 1969 must be the earliest, for UK cars at least, because of my previous Spridget having the canister type. I do remember being told to keep the canister type on my previous Spridget as it was original fitting even though it was known that mine was a Hertiage shell (an early Hertiage shell too I think).
Nigel Atkins

Back from my hols now, Dave. Can we haggle? I've got a nice Ashley badge . . . .
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick

Yes, I'll drop you a mail later.
Dave O'Neill 2

OK, I've got the filter head from Dave, and I've had to look through my bin for a pipe with a smaller and different connection to the head (1275 version), but I'm having difficulty believing the connection will be oil-tight.

I had to do some sharp cleaning, because the PO had used some kind of sealant in the threads, and what's emerged is shown below.
1. Is the thread tapered? Are there such things? Maybe all threads look tapered if you look at them long enough.
2. Can a simple screwed-in union be oil-tight? It doesn't reach the step in the filter head - just tightens progressively and stops short.



Nick and Cherry Scoop

It's a pipe thread. They are normally tapered and when you screw them down until they stop they make a pressure tight seal. Compare the thread to what you took off.
Martin

You could wrap a few turns of PTFE tape around it. Clockwise.
GuyW

Nick

This shows how the soilid oil pipe connects at the oil filter housing, the end shape of the pipe is akin to how solid brake pipes seal into cast unions:

http://www.minispares.com/catalogues/classic/Classic~Mechanical~Parts~Manual/Engine/Oil~Pumps~Filters~and~Coolers.aspx?2~12~112

Also note the different sealing approach at the block end, with a banjo fitting and washers.


Thanks
Mike
M Wood

Thanks very much, chaps. I can't check what came off, Martin, because my 948 engine oil filter set-up is quite different: the flared pipe goes into the hole in the head, seats against a taper and gets screwed down tight, like a brake pipe.

I'm making up the new filter from bits.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

See also:

http://www.minispares.com/catalogues/classic/Classic~Mechanical~Parts~Manual/Engine/Oil~Pumps~Filters~and~Coolers.aspx?2~12~112
M Wood

Ignore my second post with wrong weblink, try searching part number TAM2097 at Mini Spares (12A2032)

PS I have a spin off conversion on my 948 if you want pictures
M Wood

Ignore my second post with wrong weblink, try searching part number TAM2097 at Mini Spares (12A2032)

Also see: http://www.leacyclassics.com/tam2119.html

https://www.7ent.com/products/fitting-tam2097-spin-on-oil-filter-head-tam2119.html
M Wood

Thanks very much, Mike. I see that a flexible is now used in place of a solid pipe, which seems sensible. I would be very interested to see pictures of your conversion, because, with the engine on the bench, I can't tell what might foul the cannister.

Guy - clockwise looking from which end?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I knew you would ask that Nick. I considered explaining but thought you liked a mental challenge!

You always wrap PTFE tape onto a screwed thread of a fitting in the direction as if you were screwing a nut onto it. Then when you screw it into its resting place the tape doesn't unwind or pucker up, it stays nice and quietly nestled in the threads. Wind it the wrong way and as soon as you begin to screw the component in the tape will take a hissy fit and start unravelling and shredding itself. But you knew all that.

For a connection like your oil union I would just use about 3 or 4 turns of tape. You shouldn't be needing to pack it out, but to just provide a formable contact surface between the threads and take up any gaps.
GuyW

You're right, Guy. That would be my instinct. But I have been surprised so many times on this board, that I had to ask, in case the last time you put in new central heating you learned that PTFE tape likes to be rucked up, and makes a better seal.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

PTFE tape comes in differing thicknesses and grades, gas grade is thicker and only requires a couple of wraps at most and I have been advised and have used anaerobic sealant in conjunction with it on gas installations, still got the odd leak occasionally and had to redo, even the pros that advised me mentioned that was often the case. The non gas grade stuff is typically quite a bit thinner and needs more wraps. I have read that you can get oxygen grade PTFE wrap which contains no oils, apparently some of the other PTFE wraps contain oils which would be a no no in an oxygen installation and I have used oxygen grade PTFE tape for a few low pressure oxygen joints.
David Billington

Test fiting everything this morning, mainly so that I could free the cone-shaped nut from the flared pipe, I noticed that the spin-on head meets the block with a very different shape from the standard head.

It looks like this: circular face with central hole on the block; grinning frog shape on the filter head (yes, I know I didn't get it quite central). The oilway in the head doesn't line up with the hole in the block, but is lower, so that the whole of that anvil shape will be full of swirling oil.

Is this normal?




Nick and Cherry Scoop

Yes. Bit of a strange design, but that's how it is.

Are you fitting it directly to the block, or via the adaptor?
Dave O'Neill 2

I was going to wait for Mike Wood to show me how it looks in situ, but I haven't got a pipe for the adaptor set-up; I would have to get a flexible.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

They make PTFE paste.... its a goopy kinf of stuff just smear on with the little brush that comes with it, its always worked fine for me

Prop
1 Paper

Nick

Here is a picture - not sure if it shows you what you need?

Car is a MkII Sprite with 948cc engine. NB I would expect the block to be similar to all small block A Series engines, i.e 948cc and 1098cc Spridgets (as well as 850cc, 998cc, 1098cc Minis)

Thanks
Mike


M Wood

Another pic




M Wood

NB this is a conversion (not done by me, but the parts diagram and oil filter housing posted in my links above to the Minispares website seem to match)

In terms of use PTFE tape - I do not see the need as this fits without it and may even space the pipe further away from the fitting it sits in. NB similar discussions about not using PTFE tape on brake pipes into fittings


M Wood

M Wood,

PTFE tape might be appropriate on the tapered thread into the filter housing but shouldn't be needed on the taper seat connection for the oil pipe as due to the design it shouldn't need any form of sealant. That having been said I've seen many instances over the years of people using PTFE tape in inappropriate situations such as POL fittings and those on other gas bottles which should be self sealing with a metal to metal seal not requiring additional sealing material, the same goes for brake fittings which should seal by design by metal to metal contact.
David Billington

Thanks Mike. Those pictures are just what I wanted. They tell me that the spin-on head and cannister will fit without fouling anything, and without the need for the angled adaptor (pictured in gold, about 30 posts up).

I will use PTFE for the threaded adaptor into the head, but the taper/pipe flare joint looks good as it is.

BTW, I like the head I got from Dave so much, that I am awarding it gold paint. I've cleaned and primed the pipe as well, but haven't decided on its colour yet; it may depend upon tomorrow morning's weather.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

The spin-off adaptor I have on the MGA (MGB engine) mounts the filter upside down. So as you start to remove it...........
Graeme Williams

"...mounts the filter upside down. So as you start to remove it..........."

The MGB filter also incorporates an anti drain-back valve, ensuring there is plenty of oil remaining when you come to remove the filter!
Dave O'Neill 2

Tried that Dave. Didn't think it made a great deal of difference to the size of the puddle which eventually formed once the oil had drained off the chassis, engine block and my arm. It is easier to unscrew that way up!
Graeme Williams

The anti drain-back valve ensures maximum puddle size.
Dave O'Neill 2

This thread was discussed between 24/07/2017 and 09/08/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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