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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Spridget Heritage shell query

Now well on the way to fitting the entrails of my 1965 Sprite mk3 into the 'new' body. However, a small query, and wondered if anyone else had come across and overcome this; the front flexy brake pipes from a standard car appear too short.
This was highlighted in Restoring Sprites and midgets by Grahame Bristow - he says "With regard to front hose fitting, 1275 and earlier models used an L shaped bracket into which the hose and pipe were joined and secured. 1500 models dispensed with this by connecting the hose and pipe through the wheel arch wall. As Heritage shells use the Midget 1500 method for hose fitment, 1275 and earlier cars will need to fit the 1500 model hoses"
Problem is that according to the Moss & MGOC parts lists, both items have the same code number, and are therefore identical, and are BOTH therefore too short. I believe the hoses need to be 2"/50mm longer to allow for correct fitting, and enabling full steering lock - or am I wrong?
Would much appreciate comments. Thank you.
J M Hutton

Try Merlin Motorsport, I wanted some different hose lengths for my 1275, all you need to give them is the length you want, type of end fittings, and whether swaged or screwed. I opted for swaged, as they advised that MOT men prefer this.
The service was excellent, and the hoses came by return of post.

Dave
Dave Barrow

I found exactly this problem too, but fortunately had some MGA 1600 front hoses on hand which were a perfect fit. BHA4139 or BHA4139Z at about £7 each from David Manners

The clutch hose tab on the chassis rail was also in the wrong place. Here I used a strip of metal bolted through the tab and drilled a big enough hole in the strip for the hose end about 4 inches along.
dominic clancy

IIRC I removed the L shaped brackets from the original shell and bolted them to the new shell but I did use Aeroquip braided hoses.
Jeremy Tickle

Dave, Dominic and Jeremy - thank you all for your replies. I now have more than one way forward. What a team!
J M Hutton

Some 1275s had the brake hose through the inner wing/wheelarch. I'm not sure of the change point, but I've had '72 Midgets like that.

I don't know about different hoses.

I bought new front hoses for my B about twenty years ago and they were straining on full lock. When I checked, they were shorter than the originals.

The reprint of the MGB BL parts book that I have lists two part numbers for chrome bumper models, but there is only one available from suppliers. I ended up going to my local AP brake stockist (now closed down) and found some hoses from a BMC JU250 van that were identical.
Dave O'Neill 2

When I built up my RWA Heritage shell I used the s/s braided type - a Goodridge set - fixed to the inner wing and correct length.
I don't have the kit number, but Moss list similar as ABK102 - that is all three flexible hoses.

R.
richard boobier

Thanks D'N and Richard. I ordered the MGA hoses as suggested by Dominic, from David Manners last evening. Will advise further when arrive.
J M Hutton

Front hoses received next working day from David Manners. As Dominic suggested, the MGA BHA4139 hoses are a perfect fit, being 2. 3/8" (6cm) longer than the original spridget GBH157 front hoses.
I had spent nearly three hours trawling round local motor factors with a " have you got any approx 2" longer than these" type question, without any hope of a result! Gone are the days when you could rifle through their stock to compare items - now it's all on computer, you can only look at the screen.
Again, just proves what a most useful resource this site is - like minded people who are happy to share their experiences. Thanks again - until the next hurdle!
J M Hutton

Front hoses received next working day from David Manners. As Dominic suggested, the MGA BHA4139 hoses are a perfect fit, being 2. 3/8" (6cm) longer than the original spridget GBH157 front hoses.
I had spent nearly three hours trawling round local motor factors with a " have you got any approx 2" longer than these" type question, without any hope of a result! Gone are the days when you could rifle through their stock to compare items - now it's all on computer, you can only look at the screen.
Again, just proves what a most useful resource this site is - like minded people who are happy to share their experiences.
When I stripped the original shell, I thought that I had removed EVERYTHING - including all brackets. Just goes to show, we can all make mistakes!
Thanks again - until the next hurdle......
J M Hutton

Those L brackets would have gone the same way as the shell had it not been for the fact the new shell was a rolling shell and I was lucky to notice they were missing from it (and the old shell hadn't been taken to the tip)!

Jeremy Tickle

I am happy that the answer was so easy!
dominic clancy

In my minds eye, I had imagined having both old and new shells side by side..... But this was never going to be possible, and of course the original was long gone before the rebuild commenced.
Question to Dominic and Jeremy (and anyone else who has reshelled an earlier Spridget) - one I gave great consideration - was losing the original 'look' of the rear deck area. Did you think about this in respect of the fact that with say, a mk3 Sprite (or indeed a mk2 Midget), the NEW shell would be different with regards to the panel immediately forward of the boot aperture. The cockpit of later cars is slightly larger, and you therefore need to use a different 'one piece' folding hood frame, from a later car. This also means that the rear window will not be as steeply angled as the earlier vehicle.
I have read somewhere of a car that was reshelled, but that the area in question was cut out of the doner, and grafted into the new shell - beyond me, that one!
Any thoughts on this? - Perhaps in my case, I was happy to have a rust free monocoque. Had enough problems with rusty Sprigety things in the past!
J M Hutton

JM,
sorry unable to help as mine is a MkIII so the shell was a direct replacement but as you say, a lot less rusty. Still is 20 years on whereas the original was pretty rotten when purchased at 5 years old.
Jeremy Tickle

Would be interested to know what anti corrosion treatment you have applied over that period Jeremy? The profile pic of your RWA car looks mint - even the under arches areas! Also, do you mean the shell is twenty years old, because I believe mine to be a similar age (purchased but never used, by the guy I bought it from). Did you take a note of the number on the LH inner wing top? John.
J M Hutton

Cannot comment on differences because the car came as a new shell partly fitted out and a huge pile of bits, The info about the rear trim panel is interesting- I just thought it was made incorrectly and adjusted it to fit. Same with the hood frame, I just used what came with the project and it seems to work and even fits under the original hood cover when stowed.

dominic clancy

It is impossible to fit a mk3 Midget/mk4 Sprite folding hood to a mk2 Midget/mk3 Sprite, without considerable surgery.
The later hood stays on the car, the early car's hood is stowed along with the frame, in the boot. The brackets where the frame is attached to the body are different, the later cockpit is 4 inches longer to accommodate the folding hood in the down position.
The later car has an "upstand" on the rear deck to which the rear edge of the folding hood is secured. This "upstand" continues forward along the tops of the rear wings, so even the wings are different to the early cars, consequently, the cockpit rear trim stop is different, the early one being vinyl cover aluminium, whereas the later cars have just a plastic strip.
The earlier hood is also too short.
Bernie Higginson

Agree with everything you have said Bernie. As you will know, it has never been possible to purchase a Heritage shell specifically for the Sprite 3/Midget 2. It is a compromise I realise, but other than the hood and frame, all other 'bits' will fit..... John.
J M Hutton

JM. Yes, a rust free shell is worth its weight in gold. OK, so you won't have the nice clean line of the rear deck of the mk3 Sprite, but the later fold down hood is a great improvement on the stow away one. On the earlier cars you have to look at the weather forecast and the sky before you set off and make a decision. Hood up or down?, because if you decide down and it starts to seriously rain, you and the car's interior are soaked before you can get the hood up😠. Sometimes it's best to stop, put up your brolly and wait it out.
We're out on Sunday for a Valentine's day run, so I'll have that decision to make. Accuweather as usual, can't make its mind up.
Bernie Higginson

Agree again Bernie! Until fairly recently I had a1970 mk3 Midget, and a friend had a 1965 mk3 Sprite - one time we were out it poured down. My roof was up in a jiffy - but he got absolutely soaked!
So, to recap - style or function? Guess we know the smart answer! I will actually be so pleased to get back on the road in a Spridget as the last one has been sorely missed. I'm fortunate in that I have a BGT (on the road), but to be frank, I really do prefer the Spridget - just brings a smile to your face😄John.
J M Hutton

John,

yes the shell is actually coming up to 22 years old (just checked the receipt it's dated 9/7/94) and has been treated with a lot of Dinitrol. The chap who painted it also sealed all the seams which must help. The profile photo needs updating as it dates back to 2008 just after the car was finished so everything isn't quite as clean and shiny as it was and it did take over 15 years to restore it!
Sorry didn't take a note of the number under the wing though and the receipt (from M&G International) just refers to the part number.
Had an MGB with the hockey sticks hood and never regretted changing it to a collapsable one so much more convenient and easy to use.
Good luck with the entrails fitting, post a few pics so we can all see and admire your work :)

Jeremy
Jeremy Tickle

Hi Jeremy. Going to attempt to upload some pics. Front wings are only on as a 'trial fit' before they come off again (and the radiator!) to drop engine and box in. Windscreen assembly 'resting' on bulkhead, will use small ratchet straps to guide into final position. Note rear reversing apertures removed. What do you think so far? John. ALL advice accepted!!😱


J M Hutton

Second image of four:


J M Hutton

Third image of four:


J M Hutton

Fourth image of four:


J M Hutton

Impressive, looking really good John! That's an original colour isn't it? If you haven't already you may like to look up Lawrence's easy/quick radiator removal and consider a remote clutch slave cylinder bleed nipple - for when you come to bleed the clutch when it's all together :)
Jeremy
Jeremy Tickle

Well actually Jeremy it is Iris Blue, a favourite of mine. However, it would have been a 'correct for year colour' in 1964, on a HAN7 Sprite, and therefore I suppose slightly incorrect on a May 1965 HAN8 Sprite. Not going to lose sleep over it!
Thanks for the advice on radiator and remote bleed nipple - am onto it!👍
J M Hutton

Going to go with Alan Ansteads remote bleed nipple suggestion, and attach to bell housing. Still looking for Lawrence's radiator removal details - any idea where to look? John.
J M Hutton

Taken a while to find it but here it is!
Crossflow radiator. Easy removal modification.
http://www2.mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=97&subjectar=97&thread=2013103018565913778
Lawrence has also added a drain tap to the cross flow pipe which is a useful mod if your radiator doesn't have one.
Jeremy
Jeremy Tickle

Just noticed this. Allow me a few posts, to keep it sequential.

Radiator drain for crossflows, by replacing the existing crosspipe.

Radiator drain.
1) Use the existing crossflow pipe as a pattern to make a new pipe from domestic copper pipe, and incorporate a drain tube and tap.

2) Cut horizontally along existing pipe to create a bolt on base.







Lawrence Slater

Should have posted this first.

Use the existing crossflow pipe as a pattern to make a new pipe from domestic copper pipe, and incorporate a drain tube and tap.


Lawrence Slater

3). Shape the base and make them both look nice.

The self-amalgamating rubber spaces the copper off the base, and prevents chaffing against the base, as the tube vibrates.




Lawrence Slater

4). Mount new pipe to base with rubber cushions and cable ties.

Now you don't need to cut the ties to remove the tube. You just undo the original mounting bolts. I find a 90 degree bent open ended easiest for this.

Note: I've found that when removing the engine, the tube gets in the way, so you do need to loosen it. I'm guessing that the original tube, which sat lower, wouldn't have been in the way.

Note 2: Don't make the draintube too long, else you will have trouble feeding it in below the cross member. It needs to be angled and bent just right to sit between the gap. So BEFORE firing the solder joints, trial fit and mark the angle positions of the elbows and the T.

Note 3: In shaping the bolt on base, you DON'T need a cut out at both ends. Only ONE for the T. The other was my deliberate mistake. LOL.

The 2 holes, are water drains.

And that's it!




Lawrence Slater

Looks much better in Bonda-primer than the last photos I saw of it, Lawrence
But I think you should have kept the copper pipe unpainted, and polished it every Sunday morning.
Guy W

I'm trying to use up a load of smooth white hamerite I got cheap Guy. lol.

Just for you. Here it is in Bonda colours. ;).


Lawrence Slater

And when I converted my Sprite to crossflow, I made a fresh one for that.

It's fitted au naturel. But I may paint it, to stop it turning green.

Polish it? I don't even wash the car, let alone polish the 'brightwork'. LOL.




Lawrence Slater

What can I say to you guys - Jeremy and Lawrence - thank you so much for the very full explanation concerning making radiator removal much easier.
However - and I may face excommunication here - my car is a HAN8 Sprite, with a vertical flow radiator (fitted with a drain tap), so I fear I have wasted your time on this one. Please feel free to advise if I am wrong in this respect. John.
J M Hutton

Not a problem, it's always a pleasure to see Lawrence's work :) but if you do feel bad you can always convert to a crossflow rad (they're more efficient) and do the mod!
Jeremy Tickle

Thanks for that Jeremy! Christmas present from my beloved was a new vertical flow radiator!
So, I will continue with plan A. Once again, thanks for your advice, John.
J M Hutton

This thread was discussed between 05/02/2016 and 15/02/2016

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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