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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Springs and things

I have decided to refresh the rear springs, ready for refitting to the Frilly Frog. Now that it isn't frilly any more. But I will come back to that.

First a correction for what I told you Nick, about the clamping arrangement. There are two bolts close together towards the forward end of the spring that go up through the spring plate. I thought these were nuts on the ends of long bolts protruding down through the spring. But its the other way up. The 2 bolts go up through the spring leaves and fasten into a keeper block on top of the spring.

The complication is that, on mine at least the keeper block is too fat to come out of the spring "cave" at the same time as withdrawing the spring, The design solution is that the keeper is spot welded to a thin flat strip that serves as a handle. When assembling, you feed the keeper into the cave and lift it up so it is in the void above the spring at the front, then slide the spring in beneath it. Not sure why they didn't just make the spring cave a bit taller. An extra 3/8" would have been sufficient. Maybe there was a design change - did earlier cars have fewer leaves in the spring perhaps? Mine has 15. With fewer leaves in the spring, I presume the spring is less bulky and would give more clearance for that keeper.

Anyway the point for anyone dismantling is that grinding the heads off the visible ends of the 2 bolts would leave one with all sorts of problems! The spring would waggle around like a loose tooth but with that keeper still attached on top it wouldn't come out of the cave. The only way is to get the bolts out complete so that the spring can be withdrawn, leaving the keeper behind.

This must sound like absolute gibberish to anyone not familiar with what I am on about, but maybe a photo will help.


GuyW

Thanks, Guy - that's very helpful, and what a beautifully posed picture: the background diagonals just give it that hint of movement and drama.

I'll relate my saga when I get there; at the moment I'm putting it off by painting the engine bay, and doing a huge amount more dismantling than I had intended. Pedal box and master cylinder out this morning - what a frustrating job, when the clevis pins won't budge.

Your description is very clear - much better than Haynes. BTW Horler says 15 leaves is correct. Then 11 for heavy duty, and the ones you can buy now seem to be 9.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

He He! The sloping background lines are the ribs in my boot floor, resplendent in their first coat or 2-pack epoxy mastic primer!

Now my questions: I have dismantled degreased and de-rusted the component parts of one spring, leaving the other intact as a reference for reassembly. I think the springs are original and the leaves seem to be in pretty good condition. Rust is confined to just the exposed ends where the longer leaf is not overlapped by the next, slightly shorter leaf, and its pretty superficial there as well. They were well greasy!

But maybe they are not originals. Were originals inter-leaved with anything? Were the individual leaves painted before assembly? These have some sort of very thin grey surface, possibly paint or some sort of plating or a metal heat treatment maybe. Wouldn't paint just wear off?

What's the recommended treatment for refurbishing springs these days?
GuyW

Horler does not mention interleaving, but that firm highlighted by Simon does.

http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/product/austin-healey-sprte-mk1-and-mk2-leaf-spring-rear-pair/
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Guy
I have had my Frogeye for 48 years and dont recall any interleafing.
When i came to fit the springs on my Sebring and could not engage the clamp plate I just dumped the two top leaves. That was in 2013.
I am using later Moss springs with wedges..
Alan
Alan Anstead

Thanks Alan. I was hoping you would appear!

Interesting that you dumped the top 2 leaves. I don't imagine they can have much effect on the overall spring rate. But as I do understand many find the Frog springs to be overly hard I had wondered about removing a leaf or two. Maybe we have become too soft ourselves but has anyone tried this to good effect?

The other question; I was wondering whether a thin rubber pad sandwiched between the spring and the body baseplate would be a good idea. Nothing much, maybe more of a gasket of inner tube than a spring pad? Would it serve any purpose?


Nick - that must be where all the additional cost comes in! What would a couple of square feet of Teflon or maybe PTFE sheet cost? !!
GuyW

I have bought new 15 leaf springs shortly before they became unavailable many years back and they had no interleaf material and neither did the old ones they replaced.

Regarding removing leaves I have run with 2 longer ones removed but currently I think I have 14 installed, I would have to check. I removed longer leaves as it should have more effect on the spring rate than removing short leaves.
David Billington

Here's a link that may aid in making leaf spring modification decisions - knowledge is power: https://landrumspring.com/technical/leaf-spring-technical-information/
s1

Thanks S1, whoever you are.
Useful background info, and worth reading.
Mostly about design criteria rather than the setting up or assembly of existing springs.
GuyW

Hi Guy

I renewed my springs using NOS BMC parts I had collected back in 2009. They had 15 leaves with no interleaving. They were finished in a rust proofing wax but were unpainted. They were a dull grey colour probably from the heat treatment. I liberally coated them with engine oil and reoil them annually.

The keeper block is indeed too big for the spring cavity so you have to install it first then wiggle the spring in between the keeper and the bottom spring plate. Bit fiddly but not too bad. Good idea to make sure the threads in the keeper are nice and clean so the bolts start easily. I used plenty of copper slip so they can be removed if needed. Note I have found that in use both the bolts and the U bracket need to be checked annually for tightness. You can experience odd noises otherwise.

I did experience bolt shear in the spring on another frogeye and it was a right old game trying to get the spring out so yes do not grind the bolt heads off!!

I have to say I don't find the springs overly hard. On bumps the car can bottom on the rebound rubbers and I would have thought removing leaves would make this worse.
Bob Beaumont

Thanks Bob,
Any thoughts on the idea of adding an inner tube gasket?
Though maybe if the spring mounting bolts are already prone to loosening off this wouldn't be a good idea?
GuyW

I replaced the solid rubber blocks which were the standard frogeye bump stops with those from the later 1/2 elliptic cars and found that they have a nicer more progressive and less invasive bump stop action.

Personally I never had any problems with the spring U shackle or front bolts loosening.
David Billington

I checked my NOS 15 leaf springs. Painted black, looks like just from the outside, part number stenciled on, no material between the leaves. I checked another set, same but no stencil. I have considered putting MYLAR between the leaves but haven't done it yet. A question for Frog Eye owners. There are two saddle straps that keep the springs alined. Are the bolts going across the strap hex head bolts or flat head slotted bolts? I seem to recall flat head but I may be thinking of something else.
J Bubela

This thread has prompted me to see if I have the keepers as it's a while since I stripped the Frog and I recall the springs being hard to remove despite the spring boxes being rusted out. My old springs are badly sagging and I bought some off eBay a while back but they are Moss ones with fewer leaves. I understand they may make the car sit high but I'll try them anyway.

Bill
W Bretherton

I have spent the last couple of days dismantling and cleaning the springs that came in one of the bread baskets with my car. I have no idea if they will be saggy, or evenly matched, so I hope that the effort will have been worthwhile.

After cleaning I gave them a surface treatment with phosphoric acid and then a thin coat of chassis black paint. You can see some of the leaves drying in this photo. - plus my newly painted underfloor.


GuyW

Still considering whether to interleave these springs whilst I have them all stripped down. I see that John Bubela (it is John isn't it?) mentions using MYLAR which I can get easily enough. But would it be tough enough to take the wear from the movement between the steel leaves?

And to answer your question, on mine the cross bolts to the spring alignment straps are slot headed countersunk screw with a 1/4" BSF thread. The straps are threaded so the screws fasten directly into them. They are long enough to take a locking nut on the exposed end though I don't know if they are supposed to have any as mine didn't.
GuyW


Guy, it is John.

I considered MYLAR because it is very thin and strong. If inner tube material was used with the original springs it would add about .5 inches to the stack of springs. 1/32" per layer of rubber times 14 layers equals 7/16 inch. MYLAR is .003 to .005. Total .056.
I think the wear point would be at the end of each leave but the rest should stay intact.
J Bubela

Thanks John,
I wouldn't use inner tube between the leaves as I think the movement would make it ruck up and distort. Looking at its characteristics Mylar sounds a good choice though, if I can locate a supplier for a small quantity. There are craft sellers on ebay listing sheets of what they call Mylar for cutting stencils. But you can never be too sure that you are getting the genuine product or just some other inferior plastic that just destroys itself in a few weeks!
GuyW

I think I have posted this link before, but it is about the use of an igus self-lubricating polymer tape on the rear leaf springs of a Morgan that was being prepared for the Peking to Paris Motor Challenge:

http://www.machinebuilding.net/ap/a1845.htm

Jon
Jonathan Severn

Jon, that is very interesting. I hadn't seen that before.

Looking at the detailed specification on the igus website the product I would need for this application would have a thickness of 0.65m That adds up to 9mm additional thickness on the assembled spring, which would be too much. I could possibly omit the two top leaves which probably don't add much to the spring rate.
I have emailed them for advice and a quote. It doesn't look too expensive.
GuyW

I heard about people removing the top leaves but as an engineer that is where the highest bending loads are so removing them is more likely to promote them sagging. Years ago I discussed this with a guy I know that has a LandRover and we came to the conclusion that a good clean-up and grease then wrapping with Denso tape for sealing was the way to go.
David Billington

Hi Guy

I would not remove leaves unless the car is lighter. I did remove leaves on my modsport sprite as it had no boot floor. The little alloy racing tank was mounted on a spaceframe welded to the innerwing strengtheners. The whole rear was covered in a one piece fibreglass moulding. The car was so much lighter that removing the leaves helped to settle the car better.

On my standard frog the car sits nicely with the standard 15 leave springs. removing leaves may cause the car to sit too low at the back and I am not sure the softer rate will help the handling. I don't think the interleaving route actually helps that much. My are fine providing I check them annually for security (as per the handbook!) and give them a bit of lubrication.
Bob Beaumont

Thanks for your comments Bob. Its a learning process at the moment. There's no particular hurry for a final decision. It was only prompted by my stripping and cleaning the springs, but I can always come back to them.

The only reason for removing leaves would be if I was useing that igus interleaving as it is quite thick. But if the advice is not to then I may just oil them as you did, or maybe wrap them in Denso tape. I last used Denso tape nearly 50 years ago on my Austin 7 ! I didn't know it was still available. At that time I think part of the purpose of Denso tape was that it was supposed to stiffen up the spring a bit if wrapped tightly.
GuyW

Ah Good old Denso. remember my dad using that on his Riley Kestrel. Certainly kept them clean!
Bob Beaumont

Enlighten us please. What is DENSO tape?
J Bubela

http://www.denso.net/densotape/
David Billington

You can get Denso tape from a vintage and veteran car parts supplier, the Complete Automobilist:
http://www.completeautomobilist.com/categories/complete-automobilist-auto-accessories-road-spring-cover

Also they stock the leather gathers for springs ('Wefco' brand).

You can see Denso tape, or similar, wrapped around studding in concrete for mounts on some road sign/gantry and lighting - well you can when stationary next to it on the M77/M8 in queuing traffic!

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Springs now assembled with new Polybushes in the spring eyes.

Should the U - clamp shown here be tightened up fully, or left with some clearance between the leaves. If so, how much of a gap?




GuyW

Guy

Mine are fully tightened. Bob
Bob Beaumont

Thanks Bob, they do look like they should be, but I wasn't sure.
GuyW

Guy - you mentioned a gap at the back (front) of the spring housing. Which way does it go? I've hoicked the springs out this morning, but can't see where you mean.

My springs were packed all around with a mixture of grease and dirt which had to be scooped out before I could get the springs moving. I found waggling them all about, to a Samba rhythm, eventually released them.

What accompaniment for putting them back in, do you think?


Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick, on mine there is a gap in the roof at the back (front) of the 'cave'. I don't know if it supposed to be there but on mine it makes a space for the keep to lift up into as l slide the spring into position.

Definatly a tango will help, but you do need to do the flicks properly.
GuyW

Thanks, Guy. Tea and cake first, then I will go and look. Looking is much more difficult with the radis arm and back axle fitted.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Not quite getting this. I've been measuring inside and out, and I get the back (front)of the cave just forward of the bulkhead behind the seats. Which means the back (front) wall of the cave must be the inside face of the top hat stiffener which runs up the face of the bulkead.

So it looks as if they have built the cave from vertical wheel arch face, forward across the void to the bulkhead, with a nice ceiling as well, but the ceiling stops at the bulkhead, leaving access to a little loft inside the top hat.

Is that how you see it?

BTW, what did you paint your springs with?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Yes that's it. There is a "loft" above the cave ceiling, within the box bulkhead. And because the cave extends slightly forward of the plane of the front of the bulkhead it creates an access in the cave ceiling. At least that is how it is with mine.

Photo here to match yours, only its on its side! The kebab stick is pointing up into the cavity in the cave ceiling. At an earlier stage I was about to weld an extra piece of steel to close that off as I was concerned that its an access into the rust-vulnerable box section. Fortunately I checked on the spring clearance and found I need that extra space for the spring keep to lift into to allow my 15 leaf springs into the cave cavity.

Springs were degreased, derusted with a wipe over each leaf with phosphoric acid, neutralised and then given 2 coat of Eastwood's 'Extreme' Chassis Black. It goes on as a very thin coating which dries to a pretty hard gloss finish. Rather like Hammerite used to be.


GuyW

As a matter of interest, how do you de-grease? I keep my Gunk in a plastic crate with a lid, but over the last year its shape has started to distort. I was thinking maybe a metal bucket with a lid, and I might go to J-Mart after breakfast, to see what they have that's cheap: perhaps a bread bin.

I don't do this often enough to have a proper parts wash, though I would love to have one appear every so often in a convenient corner of the garage.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick,
For smaller well greasy parts I bought one of those small 12" plastic tool chest boxes - the sort with a hinged lid with central handle and clips to close it with, and removable tray inside. It is permanently half full of filthy paraffin and gunk mix. I cut some drainage holes in the removable tray so the various spatulas, scrapers paint brushes and tooth brushes (not my "everyday" one) store on the tray so they drain off back into the box beneath. And part-cleaned bits also sit on there to drain. The box lives somewhere at the back of one of my workbenches so its readily useable without having to refill or drain it at each use.

The other method is a 1 gallon oil tin with the top cut off. That gives a good depth-to-volume ratio for dipping things like the leaf spring leaves in. That is currently filled with a propriety degreaser metal prep solution called Hyperclean, but I am not sure if this one is water-soluable. I prefer to use the "environmentally friendly" versions. The citrus flavoured ones are so much nicer.


GuyW

Good set-up. I like the look of that. J-Mart didn't open until 10, and they wouldn't let me in at 9.57, so I came back and hunted round the garage until I found a large tin box with not much in it. Always the better way, when money looks like leaving your pocket.

You know the two clips that hold the spring at the third points (roughly)? Mine have no nuts on the threaded shanks. Should they have? Did you just spread those clips by brute force?

(Didn't think much of the nut at the front end of the spring apparently being 17/32, by the way; 14mm socket got it off OK, but I'm glad it wasn't really tight)
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I think that odd sized nut at the front of the spring is a BSF thread - at least that was the nearest die l could find that seemed to fit. The thread on the headless bolt had become burred over on one of them.

And no, the intermediate clips on mine, the ones rivetted to their leaves, don't have nuts on them either. Maybe they should have; l asked the question earlier but no- one spotted it.
GuyW

So you did, Guy. I wish I had read that post before asking how you removed the clips: I went back out and cleaned them up some more, and found the slotted heads - duh.

One came out, one won't budge; good average I suppose. Penetrating oil overnight, and if that don't work, heat tomorrow.

Are polybushes better than rubber?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I don't know if Polybushes are better than the original Metalastic bushes, but probably better than modern 'imitation' ones. In my case a full unused Polybush set came with the car, along with lots of other goodies, so l do feel obliged to use them.
GuyW

Guy, what did you neutralise the Phosphoric acid with?

Rob
MG Moneypit

Hi Rob, I got the acid from this site, and followed their advice
Rust.co

http://www.rust.co.uk/phos-kleen-chlor-x-2-ltr-pack/p512941

As well as the phosphoric acid they supply a neutralising solution. I have no idea what the long term outcome will be though. Only time will tell!
GuyW

Hi Guy

In answer to your post about nuts on the intermediate clips, mine did does have any. nor does the spare set I have.
Bob Beaumont

Well, I can't shift that clip bolt, so for the moment I've dismantled everything and left it in place on its leaf.

I'm not sure whether there's any point in painting the leaves. Coming out after many years, they are predominantly covered in hardened grease with a little rust, not too bad, though I ought to measure them to see what thickness has been lost. Certainly, scraping them has resulted in a good smooth surface almost everywhere.

They don't look as if they've ever been painted, and surely the working of the leaves against each other will soon loosen whatever paint I apply?

Nick and Cherry Scoop

Yes I went through the same dilemma. When I degreased mine they were left with a thin grey coating. I wasn't sure if it was paint or something else, but then decided just to give them a thin coat of the chassis black paint anyway.

I think the proper treatment is a graphite based oil rather than grease, though there are differences of view on this and the suggestions of interleaving with Mylar or similar is an alternative to a liquid lubrication. Although my springs are reassembled that is just so I don't loose bits. They need separating again and either interleaving or oiling. Today my preference is for oil and then wrap in Denso tape, but that may change if the leaves on the oaks come out before the Ash.
GuyW

How well you put it, Guy! I feel just the same.

My leaves are now sitting in a regimented row on the garage floor, with the first coat of rust removing gel on them. It's noticeable that the rust is where the tip of the leaf bears on the leaf below; the visible parts of the leaves are almost rust free, as are all the edges. Then there's a patch of rust on nearly all of them where they pass through the forrard clip.

I think it will be almost irresistible to put a coat of zinc primer on them after they're washed for the last time. But then what?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Or oil and Denso tape.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

The system I use to clean small parts is to use a crock pot. I don't know if it's called the same over there, but it is a slow all day cooker for roasts and stews. I found mine at the Goodwill store. They come in different sizes, I have a metal colandar that fits in for fasteners. Half Simple Green half water, plug it in and leave it over nite. rinse with hot water. Absolutely no grease or oil residue. I collect the first rinse water and place it in an oil separator bucket so it doesn't go into my septic system. You can clean anything that fits in the pot. Keep the lid on to avoid evaporation. Simple Green is biodegradable. I also have but haven't used it yet, is a hydrocollator. Physical Therapists use it to heat up hot packs. I got mine from my PT. They were tossing it because it needed a thermostat. It is big enough to put an A series block in it. By the way, it is pronounced HY-DROCK-O-LATER.
J Bubela

that sounds a brilliant idea - I had to look up Simple Green, not heard of it before. Feck me they want £84 for 10 litres! Is it one-time use or how long does it last?
davidsmith

Huge variation in prices on Amazon - £14.80 for a gallon, then £311.00 for 5 gallons. It looks like the same stuff, though the expensive one is supplied by Simple Green, and the cheaper by Sunshine Makers.

Nick and Cherry Scoop

These are the types of grease solvent l mentioned earlier, saying l preferred the citrous based cleaners. But as far as l can tell "Simply Green" is sold as a hyped up named brand. Similar stuff is sold from around £7 a gallon. This is what l use, only l have run out at the moment.

http://www.citrus-cleaning-supplies.co.uk/products/Chemicals/Housekeeping/Virosol+Citrus+Cleaner+Degreaser+x+5+ltr/871144408?gclid=CPS-lbKD6tICFcHNGwodOPkEAw
GuyW

BTW, have you decided what you will do in the cave yet? Dirt will inevitably fly in there and be inaccessible. Would it be reprehensible to waxoyl all surfaces and then inject UF foam?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I gave mine a generous coating of underbody wax which I renew annually. My view is that as the car doesn't do a fraction of the miles it did back in the 60's, has better body protection, is garaged and generally used less in wet and salty conditions, then it will at least last my lifetime if not well beyond.
Bob Beaumont

Guy,

how good is your degreaser at shifting engine bay muck and stuff?

Jeremy
Jeremy T2

Simple green is available here at hardware stores and the big box stores for around $10.00 a gallon. I contacted them long ago about working temperatures. They replied 110 degrees works the best, thus the crock pot (which cost $4.00). I would think any of the bio degreasers would work as well with the added heat.

Does waxoyl remain sticky when dry? Wouldn't it attract dirt?
J Bubela

Jeremy,
The citrus stuff I use works pretty well. I wouldn't know how to empirically gauge this against other products other than to say its as good as paraffin and as good as gunk. I have not used the "Simple Green" product, but believe it to be basically the same treatment. I like the the heated "Crock pot" idea which I have no doubt would speed up the degreasing process. Similar could be achieved using a plastic bucket and a submersible heater as used for tropical fish tanks.

Nick,
How to deal with the cave? Yes I will saturate the interior with Waxoyl or similar, but maybe take care not to impede natural drainage of water out of the mouth of the cave. At the moment I am also thinking of making a piece of rubber sheeting to make a sort of curtain around the spring and cave opening.

As for filling the cave with UF Foam, no I don't fancy doing that. Many years ago BMC did for a while, fill the screen pillars and sills of both minis and 1100s with foam. I have come across this on a couple of cars and don't think it actually helps at all. In fact I think if anything it would hold moisture against the steel and have an adverse effect.

GuyW

Thanks Guy,

as good as Gunk is good enough for me. One of the jobs is to repaint the engine and tidy up the engine bay so this will do nicely. Thanks for the tip, much appreciated.

Jeremy
Jeremy T2

Bob, I think you're generally right about present-day use of our cars. But I have used my Frog as an all-seasons/all-weathers car, and the mud on the roads here is awful. I dread to think what's going into the crevices when I'm following a potato trailer in the wet, or coming down off Hergest Ridge.

Your idea of a flap is enticing, Guy. I shall have to think about it whilst wire brushing springs.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick,
I believe the key to preserving those spring cavities is to have a thick, waterproof coating of paint lining the whole surface. Painted steel doesn't rust does it? Rust usually starts where the paint chips or cracks or along exposed edges where it is thin and wears through.

The bit that I cannot see being able to protect properly is the opening that exists on mine in the rear ceiling of the cave into the "loft" above the spring hanger. The only possibility there is lots of waxoil type gunge.
GuyW

After a day's reflection, I reckon that's a good plan, Guy (can you handle the responsibility?).

I'm finding a lot more rust pitting on the springs than I thought at first, but I still like the feel of them; they're certainly going back in.

Wait till I tell you about the ditch-side sill. I'm feeling betrayed by the first owner and his 'complete' record of all jobs done on the car. Might have to start a new thread.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Ditch-side of the car, Nick? I thought that where you lived, as around here, the ditches come equally close to both sides of the car. I drove this morning down a local lane in my modern car, and regretted at the time that I wasn't in my Sprite. The road was tarmacked, but all one could see of the 6ft wide road road as it wound between high banks and walls, was two narrow flooded wheel tracks separated by a long continuous tump of grass.
GuyW

I used to say gutter side, when we lived in London, but I was corrected by a restorer I was chatting to, up on the border. And he also said that he generally finds ditch-side sills to be in the better condition. Like you say, the tump is in the middle and, our roads being slightly wider than yours, that's where the offside wheel rides, on the mud. While the ditchside wheel, arch, and sill get thoroughly washed. Our council can't afford salt.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I read that Near side and Off side are terms relating to canals, and the relative position of the tow path. Pre-date cars by a couple of hundred years.
Some of the roads here were like canals yesterday; meltwater from the snows the day before. Today has been glorious hill to hill sunshine. Wonderful weather.
GuyW

Here too (the sunshine, not the snow). The Ridge was amazingly wonderful.

. . . and the birdsong!
Nick and Cherry Scoop

855 miles the last two days. The last 125 via A82/A83 just sublime. What a beautiful afternoon!
Greybeard

Guy, why do I need graphite oil for the springs? I looked on my shelves this afternoon to see what greases I have, and there's just LM, Moly and Copper. Because we're going into Leominster tomorrow and I'll get the chance to visit the farm supplies store.

Anyone else with an opinion, please pile in.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I don't know why Nick. Just what I read somewhere - possibly in the workshop Manual? Maybe the graphite helps make the oil sticky so it doesn't get squished out from between the leaves?
GuyW

Just browsing t'net for graphite oils. There is information about stuff used for lubricating door locks - apparently the benefit is that the oil is basically a "carrier" for the graphite getting the lubricating graphite onto the friction surfaces. And then as time goes by and the oil dries out, the graphite remains to do its lubricationing. But nothing there about oil sold in gallon cans for automotive work.

There's this stuff from Fortran (thought that was a computer language ?) http://www.fertan.co.uk/item-graphite_oil.htm

But maybe nowadays use something like mountain bike chain lubricant - "lube" would be the appropriate term - that has PTFE in it and is designed not to wash away in the first puddle?
GuyW

How about graphite grease rather than oil?
davidsmith

Yes, I will see whether they have oil, but they'll definitely have graphite grease.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

There is one odd thing about this. There is a fairly frequently reported view that grease on leaf springs attracts road grit which sticks to the springs and accelerates wear as the leaves move against each other. I have seen it reported as a reason not to grease half elliptic springs so I don't know if the same might be said of quarter elliptic springs, but if it is true of one, then why not the other?

Certainly pre-war cars often had springs lathered in grease, but also very often wrapped with leather gaiters or Denso tape.

The grease and grit claim may be an alternative fact (!) but I suppose the safe thing would be to grease them and then wrap in Denso
GuyW

Yes, that is a worry. What was that stuff our forefathers used? Lubricating, protecting against rust and physical damage, would not rub off, water repelling, lasting a lifetime, looked a million dollars . . . . . . .
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Goose fat
GuyW

The advantage of goose fat is that the nearside spring next to the exhaust can emit a pleasant odour associated with roast potatoes..........

I have always avoided grease to avoid the grit/crud problem. Oil works fine and excess can be wiped off.
Bob Beaumont

I will choose oil. The first owner's log is shown to have missed some major events in the car's life, but oil seems to have worked for him:-

"Checked vehicle for rust underneath – paint up as necessary – rust on nearside sill – derust and painted – also wings checked – OK.
Oiled springs and inside spring housings rust checked, painted underneath doors.
New dust cap fitted on offside front brake drum."

Though he did put in new rear springs in 1969, so something must have gone wrong.

I still choose oil.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Guy
Winter Wet lube for MTB(and road)chains works very well and does not wash off in the rain. Its not cheap though, a 150ml bottle is around £5! so probably not cost effective to use on springs. I think engine oil is fine and does the job and its no big deal re- oiling every year when doing other servicing jobs around the axle. its been fine for me over the last 40 odd years.

Bob Beaumont

Sorry to bring back springs and things, but I wanted to show proof that I've followed the oily path to spring salvation. No going back now.

I will now wrap this beauty in oily rages until I've prepared its shrine.


Nick and Cherry Scoop

Looks Luverly
Bob Beaumont

But the big question is does newspaper adequately protect the sitting room carpet​?
GuyW

Doesn't everybody have Axminster in the garage? I should mention that it's on underlay.

The new sitting room carpet fitters wanted extra to take it away!
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Sheer class Nick. I only have some vinyl, but I think it came from John Lewis originally.
W Bretherton

I've no idea about Axminster but at least some carpets and mats in a garage can hold and promote damp.

I'd expect there'd be a dedicated garage vacuum cleaner for that carpet though.
Nigel Atkins

I assume then that Nick goes for a fitted Axminster. I prefer an antique Persian rug as l can roll it up when not in use, the main purpose is to act as insulation for my back whilst snoozing under the car.
GuyW

vacuum cleaner - yes. Given the amount of fluids that a midget drops I have a Vax wet 'n dry in the garage.
davidsmith

This thread was discussed between 10/03/2017 and 30/03/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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