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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Starter help

Ever since purchasing my midget four years 4 1/2 years ago starting has seeemed a little less than comforting. I purchased a new battery a couple of months back with little change.

The car is always plugged into a battery tender when parked. The alternator puts out 14.3 volts at idle.
When the car first cranks the starter spins vey well. This is fine for starting if the car is used on a regular basis. If the car sits for a while and does not start on the initial spinning (maybe 7 to 10 seconds), any additonal cranking is greatly reduced and the starter barely turns. Is this a starter problem? The stater is a rebuilt and was put in when the car was restored right before I purchased it.
Thanks for your help
Bob
Bob 76 Midget

Hi Bob,

I had the exact same problem, and many others too I'm guessing. With me it was even worse because of my stroked engine (1430) with more compression. I recently purchased a high torque starter. The fact alone that these are on the market for the Midget aknowledges the problem.
I'm having a little problem fitting it (see other thread), but that seemns to be an isolated problem with my *slightly modded* engine.

Bought mine at Cambridge Motorsports. Very helpful people and fast delivery.

Cheers,

Eddy
Eddy Veuger

Eddy may have had a problem starter. I have a 1420 which started fine with the standard starter and others have mentioned before that a good standard starter shouldn't be a problem even with a larger higher compression engine. The only time I have had an issue was one starter that would occasionally jam, that seemed to be due to the wrong pinion tooth count and swapping the starter for one with 1 less tooth IIRC sorted the problem.
David Billington

Hmmm, define problem starter...yes, in damp/cold conditions the engine wouldn't start straight after touching the button (it does when it's warm). The car is new to me and I was also looking for the right choke setting in various conditions.

Because conditions are never perfect in the Netherlands and I'm an all-weather driver I like to have a strong starter motor that is able to overcome minor starting problems. My (new and freshly charged) battery was empty far too quickly in combination with the old starter...after some 30 revolutions the real punch was gone and from there it went downhill very fast!

Cheers,

Eddy
Eddy Veuger

I think that the real key to good starting is to have decent engine electrics. An upgrade to electronic ignition will make all the difference. Then it should fire up as soon as the motor turns over, often on the very first compression stroke, putting much less strain on the standard starter and battery condition. The original starters are pretty robust items and should last for many years, perhaps only needing a new set of brushes once in a while.

Guy
Guy Weller

Could also be a grounding issue.
Or the condensor ;-)
David "earth to Bob" Lieb
David Lieb

Actually I don't have a problem with the engine starting. It is in good tune. I try to delay the start of a cold/ not run for a while engine, by not pulling out the choke. I like to get the oil circulating so that I don't get a dry start. After several seconds I then stop the starter, pull out the choke and crank again. This is when the starter strains.
Bob "could this be a grounding problem?" Scottaline
Bob 76 Midget

No grounding problems on this side...I ran a ground cable from the lower mounting bolt of the starter to the battery, no high resistance iron stopping my starter from being all it can be!

Eddy "long time since I was grounded" veuger
Eddy Veuger

I too have run very high CR engines without problems with the original starter. I think 30 revolutions is good going for a small batrery anyway.
I have to agree with Guy the engine should start after one or two revolutions.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Condensor is always the problem...LOL.

Naw. you got an open circuit somewhere that draining the battry

Memory on the radio, bad switch on the rear boonet for boot light, if there is alot of condensation outside you can get moisture on the electrical contacts that creates an open switch

Id put a volt meter on one circuit at a time starting with the ones that are always hot and watch it for leak dowwn and trace it down to the culpret

remember there are also coutesy switches in the door jams also...look there also

prop
Prop***The End in 2012

Prop,
The battery is always on a tender so I believe that it is always at a good charge level. It seems that the starter either gets hot or a resistance builds up somewhere in a marginal contact. Unsure!
Bob 76 Midget

It seems that if the starter cranks wonderfully at first, then there is probably no grounding issue, unless it is somehow UNgrounding during or after use, then somehow magically REgrounding by itself when the car sits still for a spell. Which given the things attributed to Lucas I suppose is within the realm of possibility... Could the starter solenoid progressively fail under load? It would get very hot if it did I think, easy enough to check (Any one ever have this happen?). It sounds like a weak battery, except: the battery was recently swapped out for a fresh, and it's kept on a charger. LIKE THE OLD BATTERY? Maybe the CHARGER knackered BOTH batteries, so to make the battery non-suspect, after all the charger never fails, right? I've had 2 fail in five years! (Made in China, u get what u pay for) Or you are running 50-W90 in the crankcase. Or maybe it's the condenser. Or maybe just a bad starter.

R
Richard 1979 1500

Switched the battery tender from my motorcycle to the Midget. Same result. Bad solenoid? Bad starter? Someone else must have had this problem at one time or another. Switch contacts?
Bob 76 Midget

I dont know Bob,

It just seems you shouldnt have to have it on a tender, unless your letting it sit un-started for 6 weeks at a time or longer, when the car is off, it should have no elecrtical loss except for long periods of down time....thats why I say its some kind of open circuit, thats just a trickle, I really think you got an old switch somewhere thats not completely closing, but not activating its aceessory as well, but just enough open to allow a small amount of electrical current to pass


One thing that you can do, that easy and cheap, and would give you a better idea of whats happening, is get a battry cut off switch, that hooks to the battry, that way the entire car is dead at the twist of the finger....if after seval days the battry wont start the car....then you know its a battry or a starter/selinoid proplem, if the car starts up and lots of juice in the battry, and always holds a charge then you know you got a open circuit/ bad swithch someware.

BTW, I have used a cut off switch on my battry for several years after my electrical loom fire, as a piece of mind device, but because I have to open the Bonnet to turn it on, it forces me to check the fluids and stuff while im right there....not a bad side benifit.

Prop
Prop***The End in 2012

Prop,

Great Suggestion. I have been considering one anyway
Thanks

Bob
Bob 76 Midget

This thread was discussed between 19/01/2009 and 20/01/2009

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