MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - starter motor trouble

well not sure if it is or isnt but where the actual wire from the loom connects to the starter motor (think its like a rod) and it seems to be lose or well moving about.

Recently having a visit from an AA man he wasnt sure if it was ment to be like that. (nackered battery) was in the end the main problem. The starter motor does turn it over but just wanted to know if it should be like this.
D Sartain

Hello. No, the stud on the starter motor shouldn't move. It's possible that the locking nut at the bootom of the stud may have loosened up allowing it to move. Be careful if you tighten it up as you don't want the stud to turn. That will destroy the electrical connection inside.

The good thing is that starter motors are easy to come by and not all that expensive should you need to replace it.

Note: Before working on the starter, disconnect the battery connections first. Sorry if you are quite knowledgable. I had to add that as I have no idea what level of expertise you have with mechanics/auto electrical systems and a warning for a novice is better than nothing.
Clive Reddin

Dan, if the guy from the AA came round to see your car and didn't know what the f@@ was going on, then he was obviously in the wrong AA.(Did his breath smell of alcholol?) :)

Seriously, ask for your money back and join another breakdown organisation.

There's only one thick copper wire going to the starter motor. It comes from one side of the Solenoid. The other side of the solenoid is connected to the battery with another equally thick copper wire.

There is another thinner copper wire (probably white/red) connected to the solenoid, that comes from the ignition switch.

When you turn the ignition key to the start position, the thin w/r wire to the solenoid, is made live +ve 12 volts, This energises the solenoid, causing the two sides of the solenoid (thick copper wires), to be effectively connected together, sending current to the s/motor.

If you have the old type of solenoid (I think you do) there is a button in the centre of it, that allows you to manually engage the starter motor without turning the ignition key. You need the battery connected for this purpose. So if you want to test your starter motor leave the battery connected.

As Clive said, the connection to the Starter motor should be solid. So tigthen this up first before you do anything else. If it is lose, then you will get reduced or no current flow into the s/motor, and the engine won't turn very well or at all, when you are trying to start it.

Lawrence Slater

well to be fair to the aa man its not often they come across an austin healey sprite or any other car with same sort of layout (ie that engine). It was actually the battery but i was just wondering if it was a problem aswell he did say after the battery had abit of power in it he didnt exspect it to turn over the way it did.

Oh and thanks for the battery comment i do know it but always helpful to make sure its said.
D Sartain

You should definitely tighten up the stud on the s/motor. Obviously you have a good electrical connection, otherwise the s/motor wouldn't turn properly. However, as the "stud" is free to move, eventually this will cause a problem. Almost certainly when you least expect it, and least need it.

But glad it's sorted for now.

As regards the AA man. no excue in my book. Its not that long ago that there were PLENTY of this kind of starter motor arrangement. Its the simplest you can get, and any so called mechanically trained AA type should know about it. Just my opinion of course.:)
Lawrence Slater

The post on the starter motor is often loose. Whilst it will not turn they do tend to wiggle around. To tighten them up requires hopefully the nut on the outside being tightened or often strip down of the starter which frankly is not necessary as long as you use 2 spanners on the connection of the main cable/wire.

The main thing is that the main cable to that post on the starter should be tight which you have confirmed yours must be.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Well if your not with the AA then il let you off but as we are with the AA they are all great guys and know what they are doing (just incase any is looking in) lol.
D Sartain

Dan you are too nice and too forgiving. :)
Lawrence Slater

lol thanks. Im not really mabye a little bit but I try to be nice.
D Sartain

sadly had same problem again today.

Replaced battery and started ok but starter wasnt sounding great and today just a click from the solenoid and then nothing so either its died or any ideas anyone.

At the minute thinking its a new starter motor.
D Sartain

The contact inside that connection (often) fails when it gets tightened without using two spanners as Robert says.

If the AA man/boy/person doesn't know that...

Well

I'm not surprised.

The important thing from your perspective is to disconnect the battery (no prizes for knowing that spanners and lecktrickery come next) and try to tighten the terminal by holding the locknut against the starter body with a spanner and turning it a TAD (I'm sure that must be a technical term, I have used it for donkey's years) just to hold it gently against the inner fitting then tightening the outside nut against the terminal.

If you are lucky (I have fingers crossed) the full starter current can then flow, but I fear the internal connection may have torn away from its lead and may be struggling to pass enough power to do any work.

I suppose the good thing is that starters for Spridgets are relatively cheap, I was quoted £320 for a starter for a Honda Accord about fifteen years ago.

I'd be shocked if yours/ours came to anything much over twenty quid.

If you do end up having to replace your starter motor do take Bob's advice, use the two spanners technique to stop the inner terminal from turning.
Bill 1

Click click but no turn can mean a loose connection somewhere but if you think all then connections are ok now then could be worn contacts in the solenoid. Esay to find out if solenoid or starter. If it's just clicking then dab a fat screwdriver across the solenoid contacts (where fat cables go) and if it cranks then worn contacts in solenoid. Starter could be ok. Be careful there may be a few sparks when you do this so just dab it and see what happens.

If that doesn't help then could be you've damaged the wire behind the lug on the starter, a loose connection somewhere else, although since you said it wasn't cranking that well possibly just warn brushes in the starter. Don't forget what most people say when there's an electrical problem "bad earth" :)
Greg H

Dan,

Do you have the manual solenoid with button in the middle? If so then push the button, and see if you get a turn on the s/motor. As you say the solenoid is clicking when you turn the key, I doubt you will any different result. But worth a 5 second double check.

So, CAREFULLY try what Greg says. Just QUICKLY short out the two big teminals of the solenoid. As said, just a touch across the terminals, otherwise you will weld the screw driver or whatever you use to the terminals and probably end up on fire. :) :(

If still no result, then before you buy a new s/motor, take yours out, and have a go at making sure the stud is tight as discussed below.

Also. You need a good earth for the starter motor to turn. There is an earth strap from the chassis to the engine/g/box.

As you'll probably get under the car to get at the bottom bolt on the starter motor anyway, whilst you are there, make sure the earth strap is good and tight.
Lawrence Slater

it is the older round one with a push button solenoid and after trying the key using the button it didn't even click. then tried it with the key again and it did for what ever reason.

Also why does the haynes manual ake it out to be so easy to remove then look at the picture the engine isnt even in the car. We have tried to remove it today and its out only not out the car. We both know it would be easy if the dizzy was removed but for what ever reason we havent got a timing mark and people in our club have said its difficult to do with the engine in the car so stuck at the min.
D Sartain

Is this an A series midget?

If it is then removing the starter motor is not a problem? what part of removing it are you having difficulty with?

Originally you said it was turning the engine over and now it is not? Do you think you have damaged the starter motor trying to tighten the connection?

To remove the starter a socket set is best using a longish extension to get at the securing bolts. 9/16th I think they are from memory 15mm will do it also.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Dan you said.

"We have tried to remove it today and its out only not out the car.

OK Dan, from this it sounds like you have removed the bolts, and the starter motor is sitting resting between the chassis and the engine. And now you are struggling to lift it up right?

You don't need to take out the distributor so try this first.

Move the starter motor backwards towards the front of the engine, and at the same time angle the back end of it, over and up towards the gap between the steering column and the chassis.

It’s a tight fit, but you should just be able to manipulate the back of the starter motor up through the gap.

If you still can’t get it out, take out the distributor. It’s easy enough and you don’t need to worry about the timing marks.

Get something to put a small white mark on the base of the distributor clamp, so that when you loosen and remove the distributor, you can see EXACTLY the position it was in when it goes back in.

The distributor is keyed so it can only go back in/engage one way.

Once the distributor is out the starter motor will be easy to get out.
Lawrence Slater

Hi Dan,

I'm having 2nd thoughts about my earlier post. I think you do need to take out the distributor. So mark the base with white paint, tippex or the like, and then you'll have no trouble putting it back.

It's been so long since I had to remove my own starter motor, that I had actually forgotten that won't fit up through the gap alongside the steering column.
Lawrence Slater

It sometimes helps to reach in to the starter motor through the triangular openings in the inner wheel arch, behind the wheel. With some manipulation it is possible to remove the starter through this opening, withdrawing it pinion- end first through into the wheel arch area.
Saves removing the dizzy!
Guy

only really tightening it by hand so wouldnt of exspected that to damage it. had given up when posting last post as other jobs needed to be done so I might try tomorrow mabye with the wheel off and out by the side.

I dont really get some of this though because some people say these things are easy aka the timing but had someone in the club say its difficult with the engine in the car.

Anyway hopfully will get there not in a huge hurry anyway thanks for the help and will see what happens.
D Sartain

Dan, as Guy says you can remove the starter via the hole in the side structure under the wheel arch.

Awkward but fairly easy.

Turn the steering fully left and you may have room even without taking the wheel off, which I usually do when working on this job.

It only takes an extra five minutes and makes the job far less daunting.

good luck
Bill 1

Hi Dan,

Are you saying, that someone in the club is telling you that timing is difficult with the engine in the car?

If so, then note, it is just as easy to static time the engine IN the car, and you can't dynamically time the engine, unless the engine IS IN the car and running. So I suggest you ignore that bit of advice.

If you still can't get the s/motor out through the gap under the arch, then pull out the distributor. It's an easy job, and you might as well learn to do it.

The more you learn to do for yourself, the more you will gain confidence, independance, knowldege, and just as importantly you'll enjoy it.:)

Pity your not down south, I'd show you how easy some of these things are.
Lawrence Slater

And PS Dan,

If you mean that you only tightened the stud/cable connection on the s/motor using your fingers, then that's why the motor won't work. it has to be far tighter than that.
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 24/10/2011 and 31/10/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.