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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Steering Rack Oil

What is the preferred oil for early steering racks?

Haynes and some of the archive threads say SAE 140 but 'The Good Book' and my 1972 workshop manual both say SAE 90 for our climate.

Having only referred to Haynes before setting out, I've just tried all the local motor factors I can think of, (including getting thrown out of Morris Lubricants' factory trade counter by security because they don't do non-trade sales!) and waiting for ages at the unattended service counter at Halfrods but I can't find any SAE 140.

At the moment I'm thinking of going with the Morris's Lodexol 80W-90 API GL4 that I got for the back axle to replace the GL5 that people warned against on another thread.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

C
Colin Mee

Colin,
I'd go with the 'good book' as you know :)

and always over a Haynes

which Haynes have you got as both of mine (1974 & 1982) show EP90

the only 140 I see is in my copy of 'the good book' and it's Esso GX 90/140 which I take as meaning an oil that covers from 90 to 140 rather than just 140

- or - as I've read on here that others use grease instead I might consider that if rebuilding (not that I'd ever do that, I'd leave it to someone else to do)

if it's just maintenance then do you actually need to add oil, many owners just seem to leave the rack well alone and it continues to work well for many years (decades)

hopefully others with more and better knowledge will also reply to this thread or have a look in the Archives
Nigel Atkins

ETA: I'm not sure the steering rack would ever get hot enough to worry about using a GL-5 so if you use a GL-5 (which you can) for your rear axle then I'd have though that you could use the same oil for the steering to save buying more or a different oil
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel.

I've got the radiator out at the moment, so thought I'd give the rack a routine '10 strokes' and a quick coat of paint while I've got such good access.

My Haynes has a 1990 copyright date. I can't see any other edition info. but it seems strange they should change a thing like that. They specify grease for GAN-5 onwards. I'm pretty sure my official Morris 1000 workshop manual says explicitly that grease should not be used and I'm pretty sure the Sprite and Minor racks are identical.

I haven't changed the axle oil since I got the car three years ago but I have topped up with GL-5. I'm sure that someone said in a recent BBS thread that this might be incompatible with some of the materials in Spridget diffs so I've got some GL-4 to enable a complete oil change.
Colin Mee

Colin,
I've found Haynes to have errors and omissions, I bought the 1982 edition and found it had errors and omissions and didn't fully cover my 1973 car so I bought the 1974 edition and found that didn't fully cover my 1973 car either

in my copy of 'the good book' it has -
"Steering Rack (later cars-from Car No. GAN-5-114643). Lubricate steering rack - It is advisable to entrust this work to your Distributor or Dealer."

the earlier racks were Morris Minor type and later Triumph type, oil then grease

the GL-5 isn't considered good in old type gearboxes but is considered OK for rear axle use, I'd strongly recommend Mobilube 1 SHC 75W-90 (GL-5) for rear axle use - see Archive for other views than mine
Nigel Atkins

I bought a bottle of this EP140 to use in my rack:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370757196549
Jim
J Smith

I use NLGI grade 0 grease intended for agricultural gear boxes.
Trevor Jessie

If its a 72, then you have the later triumph rack

So No oil should be used, only grease

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Prop,
Colin's is a 1967 car (see his 'View vehicle profile) but you're right later cars use grease, as 'the good book' has it "from Car No. GAN-5-114643"

a good few plugs for the Driver's Handbook recently, I expect my commission on it to increase further :)
Nigel Atkins

The reference to SAE 140 is in the section on reassembling the rack in my Haynes (1977) although in the section on recommended lubricants it quotes SAE 90. Confusing or what? Does anyone think it will matter which grade is used? I filled mine with 140 before I noticed the discrepancy. The 1972 BL manual only mentions SAE 90.

BTW some early 1972 cars (mine included) were fitted with the older rack.

Bill

W Dunsmore

Bill,
depending on the 'weight' (my description) of the 90 and the 'weight' of the 140 they might be pretty close (see chart below)

my copy of the Driver's Handbook has the change from "Car No. GAN-5-114643" - in Terry Horler's book 'Original Sprite & midget The Restorer’s Guide' this shows as RHD cars made from Feb '72 (and possibly on earlier models?)


Nigel Atkins

I use 90 in my rack

I doulbt you will see any big issues with 90 ,vs 140 except for extreme situations


Severe cold or heat

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

I'm pretty ignorant about what all different SAE numbers represent and, to me, and there's a big difference between 90 and 140 so I was not sure how important and significant the difference is. I managed to wreck an (admittedly quite old) Briggs and Stratton mower engine by running it on car oil instead of lighter mower oil, so I have form in this area!

You've put my mind at rest and I'll stick with the 90 and not waste any more time on the wild goose chase for 140 that Haynes sent me on!

Many Thanks

Colin
Colin Mee

Colin,
I use the viscosity chart posted as it gives a good idea about oils 'weights', if you want to know more about oils and with different views (including for and against 'classic' ideas, there's lots of myths about oils for classic cars) here's a few links -

http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/index.htm

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/enginetext.htm#oils
Nigel Atkins

Thanks for the information Nigel.

I'll bookmark those links and have a good look at them later.

Cheers

C
Colin Mee

no problem Colin, I disagree with some of the stuff in those links but I'm not an expert in anything and have been know to often get things wrong, but for years I was told and have seen others told not to use this or that or you have to use this or that (petrol and oil) or your engine and car will blow up and my teeth will rot and fall out - none of that has happened to me






. . . yet - LOL
Nigel Atkins

Colin

Comma make an EP90 GL4 which I have found at independent filling stations and motor factors.

I have had a similar frustrating experience trying to buy in person direct from Morris Lubricants at their Shrewsbury HQ, I have wanted to buy 5 litres every time I am down that way by train with work; I had to order from my local supplier instead (who were great to deal with and classic car and truck enthusiasts too:
http://www.scotwestoils.com/contact_us.html).

I know it is all about the cost and hassle of retail at a commercial HQ, wholesalers and a production plant - the people at Morris HQ were polite, friendly and explained this as well looking up my local supplier - but still it makes it harder as a retail buyer to support smaller British manufacturers and suppliers.

Anyone know who makes Halfords classic oil?

Cheers
Mike

PS Morris Lubricants has a great looking Victorian HQ:
http://shopfrontelegy.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/morris-lubricants/

Goes rather well with the nearby Shrewsbury Railway Station:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shrewsbury_station.JPG







M Wood

Hi Mike

To be fair to Morris Lubricants, I exaggerated slightly as they were very polite. I was driving round to see if they had a shop when I saw a large 'Customer Entrance' sign in their yard. It turns out it's for Trade Customers only.

I have managed to get the oil I wanted from another local indpendent factor. Sadly the one I use most is phasing Morris's out.

I try to support 'local' and independent wherever I can (Hence the Sprite rather than a Midget as I used to live close to Donald Healey's Warwick garage in my youth), plus folk have spoken quite highly of Morris's products.

At least, by buying Morris's, I've got a pretty good idea where the oil's coming from. I always assume that own brand products as supplied by Halfords are made by whichever company submits the lowest bid to supply for the year so I am inclined to trust them less than manufacturer branded products. I have always had my doubts about Comma - is it an actual manufacturer or just a buyer?

I like the photos of Shrewsbury landmarks.
Colin Mee

Halfords Classic Oil like all Castrol motor oils are made by Comma.

eddie
Eddie Cairns

http://www.commaoil.com/about/historyComma - Company history and profile

Comma Oil & Chemicals Ltd is a world class manufacturer and supplier of automotive lubricants, chemicals and ancillaries. Comma branded vehicle-specific and manufacturer-approved products for passenger vehicles, light commercial and heavy goods vehicles are distributed in over 40 global markets.

Established as an independent oil blender in 1965, Comma quickly gained an enviable reputation for the quality of its products and service. In the wake of the oil and energy crises of the 1970s and 1980s, the company was acquired in 1989 by Esso Petroleum Company Ltd. This assured Comma guaranteed continuity of supply of quality base oil for the synthetic engine lubricants which were replacing mineral products. In 1999, Esso Petroleum Company Ltd became part of the merged ExxonMobil.

Comma continued to grow, rapidly expanding market share for its own products while also developing and distributing premium branded lubricants and chemicals on behalf of Esso and Mobil. Selected private label alliances with major aftermarket buying groups also fuelled Comma’s impressive year-on-year growth.

The early years of the new century saw continued investment in product evolution, customer service and marketing programmes to build the Comma brand. Ground-breaking innovations in application systems, training, education and sophisticated digital business tools combined to position Comma as a major entity in its target markets.

In July 2012, Comma was sold by ExxonMobil to its licensee in South America, Cosan Lubrificantes e Especialidades S.A. headquartered in São Paulo, Brazil. With long-range international expansion programmes in place, Cosan is vigorously supporting Comma’s ambition to be a leading global aftermarket brand wherever its products are sold.
Lawrence Slater

Thanks Lawrence

Ever the cynic, I had always assumed Comma was just another of those branding companies that shopped around and bought its products in at the cheapest price to sell to unsuspecting consumers.

C.
Colin Mee

I don't know if all that's true Colin. I mean, they would say that, wouldn't they? ;).

But actually, I've used comma 20:50 for years. It seems fine, so I would imagine all the grades are at least reasonable. BGH geatech say Comma's good/best for a T9 g/box, but is seems that it might not be as well suited as the equivalent Castrol (Synstrans), as regards gear shifting.

But for the steering rack, I'd have though pretty much any ep90 would be as good as another.
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 16/02/2015 and 22/02/2015

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.