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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Success - 1275 Timing cover oil leak solved

Hi Guys

After stripping down the timing cover three times to find an oil seal leak - on the third time I found that oil was being retained in the bottom of the cover - yes the two small drain holes were blocked with crud from the removal of the previous gasket/sealant etc.

Also the oil seals used previously (£2 from Sussex MG and Moss) were different from the "original seal" I obtained from "Mini sport". The new original seal was much tighter, both on the pulley and in the cover, the £7.76 spent was very good value!!

What I did notice was that the hole into the crankcase for splash feeding the timing chain, is at about the same height as the bottom of the breather canister. So if your drain holes get blocked, oil would fill up the timing cover and probably get sucked into the carbs - so clear your drain holes, its worth it.

My midget moved out onto the road for the first time in three months - yipee




Tony G

Very good. Thanks for sharing. I would have never thought of that issue.
Trevor Jessie

Good for you!
Alex G Matla

Just out of interest, did you manage to remove the timing chain cover without pulling the engine. I tried to do this on my 1972 1275 and couldn't get enough clearance to remove the crankshaft pulley.

Since I have the radiator out at the moment to replace a leaky water pump I just wondered if I was missing a trick to get the crankshaft pulley off. I tried jacking up the engine but couldn't get it high enough before the bell housing hit the bodywork under the battery.

Is there a trick to this?

(My timing cover oil seal has been leaking for a few years now... stops the cross member going rusty mind)
TonyJH

You should be able to get enough clearance by jacking.
Dave O'Neill 2

Hmmm, didn't seem to work for me. I couldn't jack the engine high enough for the pulley to clear the cross member. There isn't enough space between the cross member and the pulley to allow me to remove it if I lower the engine back down after removing the crakshaft pulley bolt. Must be doing something wrong as obviously it went in somehow! Maybe I need to release the gearbox mounts so I can shuffle everything back a bit? I know Haynes say this is possible but I just can't figure it...

TonyJH

Tony,

You are not alone in this !

I have a Heritage shelled 1972 and had the same.

Seem to remember releasing the gearbox mounting bolts (in the cross member and car tunnel by the seats), releasing engine mounts and exhaust manifold etc.
Then jacking the engine and pulling it forward a little and rejacking as the bellhousing then gave the final bit of clearance.

A right PITA !!! nearly as much work as taking the lot out !

Try to slacken/tighten the crank pulley bolt when its still firm on the mounts if you can get access - jamb engine with bent bracket in flywheel teeth.

Hope that helps ?

R.
richard boobier

Hi Tony (another Tony!)

I have removed the timing cover three times now, each time with about 1 1/2" lift on the engine. Even with the engine up, there was about 1/2" gap between the bell housing and the underside of the heater shelf( the leading edge of this sheff has been bent up a little). I also removed the manifold & carbs etc. as it saves strain on the exhaust/manifold joint and makes getting to the near side engine mounts easier (I removed the lowest of the mounting bolts to the chassis) and raised the engine from the sump. When the engine raises, it moves slightly sideways away from the steering column and over the n/s brake pipe.

If anything, getting the pulley on/off was more fiddly than getting the 1 5/16" socket on the crankshaft nut!

Maybe your engine is more backward in the bay than mine, I mean that in an engineering sense rather than a "special needs" one. What distance have you between the front of the pulley and the back of the cross rail?

Could you loosen the rear gearbox mounting bolts rather than disturb the gearbox/engine joint?

regards, Tony G
Tony G

Hi Tony,

I think it must be an 'engineering' difference! I have about 10mm between the pulley and the cross member with the engine in place (just enough space to feed through the fan belt).

Today I raised the engine and noticed that there was a slight deformation in the heater shelf already. The bell housing was hard up against the heater shelf tray any the pulley touches the front cross member. Looking today after I cleaned all of the oil and gunk off the front chassis rails it looks to me like at some point in the past some welding has been done here, particularly in the area of the front cross member. Maybe an accident somewhere in the cars history, or maybe replacing metal infected with the dreaded tin worm.

Anyhow... I decided to be brave and loosened the gearbox mounting bolts (thanks Richard). I kept on jacking with the bell housing pressed against the heater shelf and the pulley cleared the front chassis rail (taking only a small amount of paint off in the process). Finally I have managed to remove the timing chain cover.

I'm glad I read your advice too as I have one of those seals from Moss. I will be ordering one from mini spares today since I would be gutted after this if it turned out the new seal leaked as badly as the old one.

Cheers, Tony
TonyJH

I should have said mini sport, not mini spares.

Ordered, thanks!
TonyJH

Hi Tony, I have about 3/4" from the back of the chassis rail to the front of the pulley, so I guess your new crossrail has been welded in place closer than normal.

My pulley bolt was almost impossible to undo, it needed a 3/4" four foot long breaker bar with the engine locked, we think the bolt was done up to 150 ftlb (1500 engine spec.) rather than the 70 ftlb specified for the 1275.

As the car was right off the ground when torquing up the crank and cam bolts, I locked the engine in 4th gear with a block of wood between the pedal and the seat frame, worked a treat - got 70ftlb with ease and no slipping.

Regards, Tony




Tony G

Thanks for providing that measurement. There is definitely more room to move things around in your engine bay. I only have the history of the car going back to 1990 ish. What happened in its life before then is a mystery :)

Thankfully my pulley bolt wasn't such a pain. I managed just using 4th gear and blocks of wood to stop the car rolling as I undid it. Yours sounds like a bit of a nightmare.

I'll post a picture of my crossrail in reference to my pulley once I've put it all back together.

Off to go and continue painting my timing cover now....

TonyJH

Phew, oil seal fitted and timing cover replaced. Hopefully that will solve my oil leak too. Thanks to all who contributed :)

Unfortunately the water pump that I bought as a replacement for my leaking one is of sub-standard construction. The BCD for the set screws which hold the fan in place is incorrect, therefore I cannot attach the fan. I purchased the water pump from a well known supplier and am rather disappointed to say the least (as I will be telling them tomorrow). I'd rather these guys charged a few £ more and sourced quality components. This is not the first time I've had this problem with poor quality replacement parts.

I've ordered a Unipart pump this time which will hopefully be manufactured to the correct specification. It certainly stands a better chance than the no-brand one I tried first.

Anyhow, rant over! Attached is the picture of the lack of clearance between my front cross member and the crankshaft pulley.

Tony


TonyJH

...and here's the minor redesign of the heater shelf that was required to remove the pulley!


TonyJH

>>I'd rather these guys charged a few £ more and sourced quality components.<< so do I but the majority of Spridget owners just want the cheapest they can get, sad but true, ask any supplier
Nigel At

I recently saw an ad somewhere for a SKF pump suited for A-series. Can't remember where, but google.........
Alex G Matla

Good Morning Tony, good work over the weekend - a nice snug fit of the bell-housing under the heater tray!

Nice and clean engine bay BTW - hope your new seal seals.

Have you marked your TDC on the pulley? and the 30 degrees BTDC for 4500 rpm timing?

My new water pump was Moss (QH)and needed slight adjustment to make the dowels fit, one of the POs had also replaced the pump years ago and just banged it home - result a distortion and slight weep.

I already had another W pump gasket from Sussex ( a good fit) and found the one supplied with the pump was poor (even though it was a QH). Where do these parts come from? Does any supplier check they are compatible?

Why does price come before quality! Hope you have success from your rant.

Regards Tony
Tony G

This thread was discussed between 16/09/2011 and 26/09/2011

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