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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Suggestions Please...

Okay,

For those that have read the site recently you will see we are on a diet. Well the cars are on a diet, I think we have settled in our heads that we have just got to the age where the metabolism is going to slow down from now on in.

We already have a massive list of items we are re-manufacturing and re-engineering in the pursuit of weight loss.

As of Tuesday we will have our Alloy sump guards on sale, however, what i would like is some suggestions for parts that you would consider worthwhile doing. We are not worried if it is a part which you may not want to buy, or is already on sale by those who are established within the scene, but if you feel it could save weight without detrimental affects to the running of the car in competition then our ears are open.

Thanks in advance

Pete

http://www.shedfive.com
PeterJMoore

Im not sure I understanding what your asking

Are asking what items are best removed or modified for competitve racing? If so Id say the 1st that comes to mind would be...

carbon fiber body panals...face it, fiberglass is so 1970s after that id look at sprung wieght items,,,such as suspension and wheels

That said, If your looking for parts to manufacture that are in definate need that have become vital to spridget people for both race and street use well thats easy

1. A new 5 speed transmission conversion, like the sizuky swift 5 speed, the BMW getreg 5 speed box, and I think there has been investigation into a volvo box, the datsun 5 speed has ran its coarse, so far only 4 boxes scence jan 1 till know on flee bay ... and even if you do get a datsun 5 speed box the hole kite is almost the same price as the imported ford type 9 box with kit from quantum mechanics in NC.

2 A new complete rear end. with engine rebuilds devoloping more and more HP the 50 year old rearends are at the top ends of there specs, not to mention the price tag to modify.. peter may halfshafts are around $500 with shipping and fees, a phantom lsd is around 800, a 3.7 rearend is pushing 400, frontline rear disk brakes around 1500 dollars...So Id think a modern dana 60 with easy to find gears ratios and bearings would be great with all the goodies

3 master brake clyinders...If this site charged $1.00 everytime a question came in about the master clyinder this site would cease to exist because those that run the site would be easily one of the wealthiest people and no longer would want to mess with this site

4 a modern complete wiring system with modern switches, lights, relays, wiring and wire connections but still look orginal

5 a modernday big brake kit for the front...

6 heres a BIG ONE.. rear brake shoes that actually fit, they dont make the orginals anymore and for the most part the shoes never wear out because we run out of adjustment room

7. some cool new hard tops, its the same design going back to the 1950s from smoothline aka formerly parish, Id love to have one of those williams pritchard tops that slopes down to cover the rear bonnet and has a hatch back race look

8 some cool fender flare kits that would be easy to install and have the inner fender parts for a swa car conversion to a rwa car

THE NUMBER ONE THING THIS BOARD IS CALMERING FOR, that will make you rich before the 4th of july
>>>>>""""FENDER HEAT VENTS""""<<<<< THE TRIANGLE SHAPE THAT CARL BENTLIFFS has on his car...without a doulbt the #1 item we (AND I) are looking for

Prop
Prop

Alloy sump? I tried to get someone to cast an alloy sump section that would add to the rigidity of the block, add a pair of 'sumps' to catch the oil leaks from the crank ends, bolt through from the lower portion of the gearbox and the bottom few holes in the front plate (to increase rigidity) and increase sump capacity. The idea was to make the new alloy sump in pieces, ally weld the sides, ends and bottom together, stress relieve and then machine to the correct dimensions. Vale Castings (F1 stuff) said it couldn't easily (cheaply) be done in one piece.
rob thomas

another idea Ive been kicking around that came from one of the "robb" guys on here that ive expanded on is the rear scroll seal leakage solution.

"Robb" suggested last summer that a tube be taped into the rear scroll oil catch area in the rear bearing lump and be routed back to the sump... Im thinking a step further and tap the other end of that open drainage hose back into the oil pump tube before the oil pump,,,, that way you would have a super good suction in that scroll seal area. and preventing the oil from p*ssing out thur the seal and not have to worry so much about how to suck the blow by postitive crankcase pressure out of the block and sump.

So peter something you might take a looksy into and make a DIY kit for... certianly be a vary popular product if it worked.

Serouisly peter, I think the more obviouse question is why you havent hired me to design or devolope these products for you...Or even more extreme ... Why I havent started my own company devoloping this stuff... Oh yeah I forgot, the 1st idea would never get done. LOL

Peter please post your website for your company prducts... I want to see it.

Prop
Prop

Prop,

Best try that tube into the oil pickup tube on an engine you don't care about. The idea is to keep any air out of the oil supply as it'll lead to bearing failure. Having a tube in any way vented into the crankcase connected to the pickup will just suck air and likely the pump won't pick oil. If you wouldn't to attach a pump to the rear scroll area then you would want to look at how dry sump systems work.
David Billington

Thats not a bad idea rob...

The more I think about that the more Im liking it...sorta expanding on the A+ engine/tranny concept for the mini where the engine and tranny share the same oil sump...certianly no leaks there and the rigidity would be improved many times over .... most likely enough to elminate all if not almost all block flex, that would really make doing the BMW motor cycle head a better option on the A-series 1275 cause now you would have a much stronger bottom end for a higher increase in RPMS.... well past te 10K range (Im guessing) ... you would only be limited to crankshaft ability and bearing life.

with that we could begin to see devolopment into new piston tech where the pistons are little more then a flat disk about 2 inche tall like the new hi performance pistons there using at chevy... which could lead to a whole new rod devolopment from the reduced wieght and friction of the piston

seriously rob what a great idea.

Prop... big wheels are turning in my head, OH Cr*P... that means no sleep for me tonight
Prop

You Nailed that dead on David,,,, The air issue is exactly Why I havent messed with it beyound therory....

I have been wanting to look into if there is some kind of air bleeder valve that would vent off the air before the pump... like always just no time on my part. But I love your idea of looking into a how a dry sump works, I hadnt considard that approah... Something ill definatly look into

But Robbs idea above of a cast ally sectional sump pan could certianly be a cure to the p*ssing real scroll seal with alot of extra benifits.. and it could be most likely a bolt on and go concept, infact with so few trannys avialable "4 in all " you could design a section for each of the the trannys that would bolt up to the main section of the sump

ribby/smooth orginal, datsun, type 9, toyota from oz

Prop... I'm really liking Robs idea... thats just revolutioary
Prop

Prop
mini's no oil leak problems?
you realy are a funny guy
Onno Könemann

Heres a mini brain fart idea I just had...

expanding on robs idea but in a limited way, why not a section of cast ally to mount from the sump pan to the tranny ridge lip. with a downward angled slope from the tranny edge lip that would run downward about 1/2 way on the back side of the sump pan. you could drill a hole in the sump pan at the inside base of the new add on angled section of the slope then add a one way door so the oil can flow into the sump pan but not the other way up the slope

that would be a cheap easy way of fixing that issue of fixing a leaky rear oil seal

you could ither modify existing pans by welding it toghater or make it a bolt on option with gaskets

Prop... OUCH!!! My brain is on fire! what else needs solving...LOL
Prop

LOL. Onno,

Sorry, I have NO experiance with mini's

How does that saying go about "Assumptions" ... "You make a donkey...." LOl

Prop
Prop

Actually, a 1275 A+ mini with good driveshaft seals doesn't leak (mine doesn't). It is like a modern car, compared to the midget 1275's scroll seal drip-drip-drip.

But how to improve the Midget's leak without massive re-design? It would not take rocket science to machine down the crank and the engine to take a modern lip seal, but it would take a great deal of work.

On the other hand, a neat-o oil pan that would catch that oil and channel it back, somehow, into the engine would be great. But how to do that "uphill" against the crank case pressure?

Maybe a small reservoir, and a bilge pump (and a check valve) to pump that captured oil back into the oil pan each time the engine is shut off?

Or a diaper?
That would be easy, just attach a feminine sanitary napkin to the bottom of the clutch housing with some wire and change it once a month....


"My car is getting a visit from her Aunt Flow"


Norm
Norm Kerr

let us know how that idea works

the main issue I see with norms idea is how do you explain or would you explain why you are always buying a tampon and a qt of oil once a week to the check out girl....Im mean, REALLY, you think she will accept the truth... you know some stores keep a pervert list on file.

Prop...to many choices for my abilitys... wings, oderless, super duty, super size, hidden panty line. ect. ect.
Prop

Carbon Fibre wishbones
Nick Sayle

Norm
never had trouble with the gearselector rod?

But on topic

A watts link for the rear.
Because it is better than a panhard and cheaper than a mumford (would save me the time to brew up my own)
but do make it adjustable so that the different ride heights can be acommodated.

Finding/ making sets of minfin style brake drums
the ones without spacer and good quality are getting hard to find.

Big (alloy) fuel tanks!!!!
FL does not do them anny more and i want one!
and add a built in swirlpot and return line so you have an injection posibility.


Onno Könemann

Onno,
i have a FL ali tank & anodised black to match the rest of the car, it's nice to know i have something you don't :-)




Brad (Sprite IV 1380)

Brad
You have a running car!
Thats what i want!

Just found out i have made a small paint miscalculation....
I don't have enough
Since i realised i have an ashley hardtop comming and want that in the same colour.
And not wanting a colour mismatch i have to order some more (hand mixed)
I have enough to finish the body but that will have to get an other coat from the new batch to avoid mismatch.
So that is an extra weekend of painting and not driving!
Onno Könemann

blah Onno - just paint the top black ;)!
rachmacb

WOW onno,

that truly sucks, for no more then the hard top is on during the year, are you sure thats the road you want to race down, i mean how much of a mismatch are we talking about...Id almost be tempted to paint the top white or put an accent line around the base of the top to make a break line/devider

with the car being so mild a butter cup yellow I just dont know if anyone else besides you would notice if there was a color mismatch... unless you tell them. Now if the car was deep purple or some othere hard color I can see a mismatch showing off big time

but like I got room to talk...

Prop... Is this rock to big for that window
Prop

It only sets me back a week so i'll live with it.
The paint job will not look perfect because of my lack of experiance.
But this part of it i can controle and get perfect so then i will.
And in the mean time (1 planned day of building) i can switch out my pedal box and switch the head an fit silicone hoses so i will stay bussy
Onno Könemann

I think a batch of ali tanks would be a good idea. I was thinking about making my own with it taking up the area at the rear normally occupied by the cross mounted silencer and perhaps making it slightly deeper. If one was on the market at a reasonable price then I would not bother fabricating my own.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

wow, 19 replies :D

I was expecting 3 or maybe 4 at a push. Although it does seem Prop has decided to climb every branch on the tree originally planted at the top :P

So to get down to the replies...

Prop - 5-Speed conversion, as you mentioned are now few and far between. Unfortunately I have a passionate disliking for the Ford Type 9 due to the location of reverse. As such, we are concentrating on the Toyota T50 5-speed. We are just finalising some details and working on an all-in-one solution. This will hopefully mean an end to mix-n-match clutches. This will be a long term project as we are both running the toyota T50 box as it is and are in talks about supplying reconditioned boxes.

Your suggestion about master cylinders is one very close to my heart. I am anally retentive when it comes to brake lines and how pretty the brake system is. As such we are currently working on our own 3-cylinder pedal box. Again, no information can be forthcoming until we have the design and testing finalised, and of course a price.

Modern Wiring Harness and swtich gear. Again, something we are quietly working on in the background over a period of time. The problem lies in the number of variations and whether we can justify making kits for each variation. I cant see it being likely, but I dont think there will be a problem in doing one-off's and showing off our own wiring when we get to that stage.

Front big brake kit. A local engineer is currently working on a kit whihc will be exactly what you have said, a BIG front brake kit. a 2-piece disc and 4-pot caliper that can still be mounted behind a 13" wheel is the aim much the same as the Gp4 Mk2 Escorts. Please bare with us, we will eventually get something like this available when we iron out any problems that may arise.

Norm - I believe there is now a "selection box" available so you could do trial and error on which brand/model of feminine sanitary towel would work the best :P

Onno - Watts linkage is in the design stage. My main criteria was for it to be adjustable, aloowing for the changes in ride height depending on what event we are entering in. Keep an eye on the site. We are also looking at panhard rods for those not willing to weld anything to their cars.

Oh and good luck with the remaining paint ;)

Brad and Bob - Alloy tanks are being drawn up as we speak. Not entirely sure how cost effective they will be, but due to their nature (ie holding fluid behind the rear axle) we currently aren't too keen on making them larger capacity. Perhaps if demand was sufficient, but in the mean time, we plan on running stock sized tanks. Keep an eye on the site for any updates.

Oh and Prop - http://www.shedfive.com

The site is a bit pants atm, things may take a bit of time to develop as it is just a hobby for us. Rest assured though that anything we feel deserves a place on the market will have been tested to destruction and will be sold with complete instructions and no hidden work modifying or adapting the items to suit. They will be bolt on!!!

Thank you all very much for the replies.

Pete
PeterJMoore

Just great, were getting used wornout parts...LOL

>>>>>Rest assured though that anything we feel deserves a place on the market will have been tested to destruction and will be sold with complete instructions and no hidden work modifying or adapting the items to suit. They will be bolt on!!!<<<<


Or glued on if totally shot...LOL

Sorry Im just teasing, I know what you mean


What A great site you have ... I cant belive Ive never came acrossed it before... I thought you where just some guy with a garage a poket knife and a rock for a machine shop...(yeah thats me)

SERIOUSLY...YOU NEED to be thinking triangular fender heat vents....this is what most of us have been wanting.


give me a few minutes to find the photo
Prop

Here is what the BBS are wantiing ... how soon can you make up a pair of these. im guessing 10 pairs to start off with... based on past interest

Prop


Prop

Prop - are you serious?

Those are (in my humble opinion) FUGLY :P

The vents on William Smallridges Class A Midget are so much more subtle and in keeping with the cars lines.

Plus, I wouldnt be one for condoning the abuse towards a good solid metal wing when there is so much fibreglass out there to hack apart for a fraction of the price.

The site hasnt been going long, it started just as a blogger thingy-wa-dooberry-whatsit, but I got bored of that very quickly and wanted something people will remember - hence the menus on the left hand side.

We just want our own cars built and reliable to the highest standards, and if it happens in the mean time we can make the stuff for others who may want it, then so be it.

Thanks for the kudos on the site though dude, much appreciated.
PeterJMoore

hey peter,

you got any photos of " William Smallridges Class A Midget" fender heat vents... I did a google search .. nothing but text

Prop
Prop

Jez peter,

Your just a kid, No wonder you got some ground breaking new ideas... I wasnt sure how an old foggy was coming up with such great stuff.... keep up the good work and glad your abourd the MG ride I cant wait to see your catolog when it comes out... any ideas when will see the 1st addition

prop...A head bandnana, does that really excite the ladies better then a proper gents driving hat


Prop

Ah cheers Prop. Those lines on my face make it look like I had a hard paper round.

As for the head scarf thing. Well i'm not overly concerned about personal appearance providing I don't have hair in my face when driving. Oh the joys of looking like a hobo.
PeterJMoore


What about an alu radiator cowl, splash shields and brackets? I Guess you racers run without the spalsh shields, but I remember thinking how bulky they were when I rebuilt my front end - and they're in prime position for rusting as well...
Actually, how about plastic splash shields?


And I'd love it if someone were to reproduce the Ashley front and top.
MarkH1

Prop

Will Smallridge's Class A car...

http://www.mgmidgetchallenge.co.uk/photos/Season07/viewer.php?lib=07-Silverstone&pagetype=viewer&page=2&i=35

Regards

JB
James Bilsland

Thanks James,

I guess I may need to be a little more clear on what I am and others are looking for, we need funtion definatly yes but we are also looking for form aka.., nice looks for the street,

the photos of the heat vents on the cars displayed definitaly meet the critria of function, but Im looking for something that has a niceer look to it, frankly cutting out a large section at the rear of the fender or drilling 3) 6 inch holes in the fender or 12) 1 inch holes and putting some metal mess behind the holes isnt what im looking for...Me personally Im thinking something with a 70"s look like the triangle with slates ... But thanks for the photos of what is popular in todays idea of fender heat vents... Im just not a fan of the simple basic 5 minite look of several round holes drilled in the fender, Even tho it would be vary effieciant at removing engine heat, its just not the look Im after personally

the inverted triangle cut outs at the rear of the fender was a nice look ...but not what im into ither

so ones mans cheese burger taste, is another mans future heart attack. Im staying with the carl bentliffe look... I guess its back to the sheet metal shop to try AGIAN! what is that 13 attempts now. getting better, lust not there yet.

Prop... BBQ human legs and feet on sale soon
Prop

Our sump guards are now online

http://www.shedfive.com

more to come in the following weeks.

Pete
PeterJMoore

This thread was discussed between 03/05/2010 and 06/05/2010

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.