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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Sump guards

I am slowly getting there now with my midget after a long rebuild and restoration my mind is turning more and more to using the car for autotesting. Alot of events near me are on broken tarmac or grass and as clearance isnt great already I think a sumpguard would be a clever idea.

I am amazed to see I cant find an off the shelf supplier of such things. Or am I looking in the wrong places? I have emailed Will Corry Motorsport as a likely bet, but as anyone else got any clever ideas.

I had also thought it would be pretty easy to fabricate my own, but I was also idly wondering if its not easier to modify one from another car? Has anyone done this? Minis for instance are spoilt for choice in designs and readily available but i suspect are completely the wrong shape. Escorts might be better??

I found an online supplier for duralumin (sp) but its not all that cheap after youve decided you need a meter square of 6mm thick!

I know that there are a number of midgets out there running sumpguards, what did you guys do?
C Mason

Ive got one... but its military grade probably wieghs 20 lbs.... ill.put it on eventually

If I ever get home I can spec it for you...looks simple emough to replicate

In hindsight, id keep a spare sump pan during those risky moments... and just replace it

The problem I see if you hook something with it, then its going to do alot more damage then if it was just a slash to the oil pan...esp at 30 40 mph

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

There is a lot of choice for Minis because the sump is made from cast alloy, which will tend to fracture on impact leading to loss of oil to both the engine and gearbox.

On a Midget the sump doesn't really drop much below the frame rails, and the exhaust, arb mounts, tow points etc will be grounded before the sump is. Plus the stock sump is made from sheet steel which should dent rather than fracture.

Are you sure that you need a sump guard for autotests?
B

C Mason,

Duralumin is a long obsolete trade name for an aluminium alloy whose primary alloying constituent is copper which is 2000 series these days IIRC see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin . I would ask at a local profiler who can do laser/plasma cutting and forming and a good likely candidate is 6000 series of which things like 6082 is common in the UK, the alloy designation can differ depending one how the material is produced ie extruded/rolled/forged etc due to the nature of how it behaves when formed. I would suspect Prop's military grade plate is a marketing wet dream and just standard plate that meets some military spec, sounds good in the advert no doubt. In the application a high strength might not be to ones advantage as the material could be brittle as a result and something in between could be better as it would absorb energy when being deformed rather than breaking.
David Billington

see if you can find a road sign. one of the big ones on a post. I've got a guard I made from one someone left at a sailing club. it's about 6mm aluminium. The sump on the K sits a bit lower. It's saved me at least once when I hit a half brick I thought the car would go over, and it makes short work of turnips.
Rob Armstrong

If you fit the towing eyes they are the lowest part of the front end. Go for slightly stiffer front springs and you won't need a sumpguard for autotesting IMO.
David Smith

I dont have the towing eyes fitted, and I take what you say about steel sumps on board rather than alloy ones as found on mini's etc.

My car is running, perhaps unwisely, 1" lowered and hardened springs as is.(in reality it catches less than it used to with old dampers, soft springs and standard ride height - but with standard uprated springs it would be better... thats my fault, i think midgets look great low. )

I think it might be a good idea to have something though if im driving at speed across a field (think autocross - i used a Citroen AX GT last year and managed to rip handbrake lines, exhaust and fuel tank nearly off it in one particular event!).

The way I see it, the exhaust is by far and away the lowest part of the car, and i think really the sump guard would act as a skid to lessen the impact to the exhaust than as a protectant of the sump.

I suppose the other option would be to move the exhaust, but as we all know space is tight. I have heard that maniflow lcbs run almost touching the floor and as good as you can get. I have also heard that someone has managed to somehow run the exhaust down the transmission tunnel ... but God only know how you do that! Oval pipes im guessing?
C Mason

We've got a few very low ones in Yorkshire. I've got about 3.5 inches between floor and sump guard. Pop along to Pickhill on the first sat in Feb and have a poke round.
Rob Armstrong

aren't Citroens still renowned for soft suspension?
I did grass gymkhanas and tarmac autotests in my everyday driver from the late 70's through to the early 90's and never damaged the underside at all. However I did weld a little skid plate onto the bottom curve of the LCB manifold. And I emphasise the wisdom of fitting those towing eyes, I used to remove and straighten them out every year or two...
David Smith

Can anyone tell me more about the towing eyes mentioned as I've never seen them. Does anyone manufacture them, and where are they fitted?
Car is an IOW Frog with forward hinged bonnet.

regards,
Nick
J.N. Williams

they bolt to the front lower edge of the chassis legs.
http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?search_group=8991&q=towing+eye
David Smith

Thanks Dave - I managed to miss them completely.
Nick
J.N. Williams

Ive been toying with the same idea for when I pick up classic rallying again.
I think my K sump is also a bit venerable when it comes to rocks/stones.
But as somany things It just inst just about practical but also looks.
Not liked any of the ones ive seen sofar enough to put on my own car.

Kinda thinking of making a Alfa gulia one with crossed bars or something like it...




Arie

I bought a sump guard on ebay about 18 months ago from "performancespridget" - he currently has a midget alloy dashboard for sale so you could search that to find him. I may now not use it as I managed to fracture one of the vertibrae in my lower back in June and I my doctor has advised me to give up classic trialling - it's not a nice feeling being paralysed, even if it was only for a short time!


DM Gibson

Mr Gibson, im sorry to hear that , I imagine very painful and very frightening!

I had a search on ebay and found seller, thats a nice piece of work in that dash! I cant say i have ever picked a normal dash up and thought it heavy enough to warrant an alloy version, but impressive skill non the less.

If you wish to sell your sumpguard please let me know.
C Mason

Sorry guys, must be me but I cant find the seller with the alloy dash.
Do you have an Ebay itemnr perhaps?
Arie

I had that problem finding it until I searched for the seller by name, the problem was the item isn't described as "alloy" but rather aluminium. The item http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-Midget-Dashboard-Dash-Aluminium-Blank-/141859192754
David Billington

Arie and DM,

Those look really cool, I like it, simple and lite wieght and probably even helps with aero dynamics to a degree

And it wont get caught up on any road appendages ... temporary or permanent

I wonder about stainless steel in stead of ally... and use some studs with wing nuts to hold it on for easy removal.

Looks like just a 2 piece unit assembled perpendicular with the front piece braked at around 60 degrees and some vent holes drilled across the front... wbich I think id avoid unless it was needed for additional cooling


I like it, good design !

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Mr Mason

I still have this sumpguard as fitted in the picture, you are very welcome to come and see it if you are looking for some ideas/inspiration . It was very effective and in use for a number of years for rallying and trialling.

It is full length running back to the gearbox. It consists of 3mm titanium sheet bolted to steel one inch box section , the box section runs along the chassis rails and is bolted to the the rear bolt of the front anti roll bar mounts, also at the rear of the guard through the floor near the gear box mounting and as you can see up to the front bumper irons .

I also have some drawings made a few years back of the chassis dimensions and shape in the area where any sumpguard should fit.

Ian Webb '73 GAN5

Photo got lost somewhere so here it is :

Ian


Ian Webb '73 GAN5

Thanks David, now I can see it too.
Not bad looking this alloy dash, not shure if its a big weightsaver tho.

Prop, SSteel is usualy a lot heavier then alloy and let easier to work on(like bending)
Arie

This thread was discussed between 14/01/2016 and 19/01/2016

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