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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - The heat and car batteries

Cars batteries don't like the hotter and much hotter weather we've had, those on the classics and modern vehicles.

I forget the numbers and details but you can look them up to verify what I'm saying (every 10c extra heat, and we had 20c extra, makes a difference).

If the battery suffers this can lead on to the charging systems having to work harder too and they can start to be less reliable.

Batteries that suffered in the heat and extreme heat may be weaken and not fully recover so come this autumn and winter I expect there'll be more battery problems and failures than even usual for the seasons and particularly on modern and very modern cars.

Don't be caught out, prevention is better than cure, check the state of charge and health of the car battery (and charging system) now and again before the cold weather (autumn? winter?), and fully charge up as required, so as not to be caught out like many others (number1 cause of AA call-outs).

The AA won't say it but you know I will, it's rarely a battery at fault but almost always a faulty owner/driver.

https://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/advice/top-ten-breakdown-causes

Nigel Atkins

that's true///what the hot weather will do for ev batteries we can only hope
David Cox

And the EVs suffer in the cold (and our car batteries too).
Nigel Atkins

This is interesting.
My friend Dave the Geezer has just taken delivery of his brand spanking EV. I think it's a Hyundai but not sure. Nice colour though.
He took me out for a birl in it.
Amazing. It's simply astonishing how good it is.
It's quiet, fast, comfortable and has a huge range of toys - all of which work beautifully .
It's a great car and I absolutely hated it.

But the batteries (to get back on topic)...
They have their own heating and cooling system to keep them in their optimum temperature range. They have their "comfort zone" if you like, which was news to me anyway.
Ultimately that just reinforces my conviction that battery chemistry just isn't completely ready for practical vehicle applications yet. I tend to the view that a broad temperature tolerance ought to be a pretty fundamental requirement.

Or perhaps I'm just a dinosaur; that's just as plausible.
Greybeard

I am puzzled with the number of potential drains [pun intended] on an EV battery when its primary requirement is to use the available energy to move it from A to B.....
Can I join the Dinosaur Club, please? I hear there's a waiting list...
David Cox

...can I claim that my midget is an EV? I CAN get it to move solely by electric means [I can disconnect the petrol pump easily enough] .... does the legislation state a MINIMUM range to be classed as an EV?
David Cox

Increasing numbers of EVs are migrating their way northwards round here. I know that the primary concern has been range followed by charging convenience. But I wonder what else sells one EV as against another other than brand name and maybe looks.

For an ICE car most buyers would be looking at fuel consumption and probably the quoted 0 to 60 times, but do these feature for an EV in the same way? Or is the transfer of KWh to miles covered on the road much the same for all models?
GuyW

Concerns for use with our cars because EVs generally are the big heavy vehicles then you add in a massive battery weight, some of the EVs accelerator very quickly, quicker than Super or Hyper cars or big motorbikes even.

So you have a very heavy vehicle accelerating very quickly, think of the momentum as it approach our little low tin boxes hardly above the fashionable big wide wheels and the driver fiddling with the vehicle's plethora of toys whilst the vehicle is on "autopilot" - what could possibly go wrong!

I don't see electric cars as the future, more a self propelled hybrid of some sort, the infrastructure for the necessary charging speeds will be insufficient and there are so many different systems and rates.

This is more top end but they are out there - Tesla Model X Ludicrous, AWD, 7-seater, "falcon wing" doors, claimed figures-

. 0-62 mph - 2.5 or 2.9 seconds

. top speed - 155 mph

. peak power - 1,020 hp

. quarter mile - 9.9 seconds

. gross vehicle weight (GVWR) - 3120 kg

We had one on the Sporting Bears Dream Rides at the last NEC. Older viewers may want to mute or lower the sound volume on the video my neighbour made about the car. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTX4J7pFyQI

Nigel Atkins

Back to 12v batteries and the heat, the EV and hybrids also have 12v battery and system which will be effected by the hot weather as I think at least with the hybrid they're not cooled (or heated) other than perhaps the standard battery blanket box.
Nigel Atkins

Grey,
I hope Dave the Geezer's Hyundai is brand new. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56156801

No surprise this rush to finally get EVs made has thrown up lots of problems for all producers, well those that weren't just empty promises and wishes. Bit like UK car production issues of the 70s.
Nigel Atkins

Yes Nigel - brand new. He's had to wait the better part of a year for it.
I've sent him the link because I like winding him up.

Tee hee...
Greybeard

Grey,
I could put up other links but there's winding someone and there's sending them into a depression.

He still needs to look after his 12v system and battery as computers run off it and if that battery gets low, even if the lights seem bright, the computers won't be happy and will give Dave the Geezer a farmer's field.

Worse computer programs with VW, worse still must be Aldi, through in BMW well actually throw them out.


Nigel Atkins

". 0-62 mph - 2.5 or 2.9 seconds

. top speed - 155 mph

. peak power - 1,020 hp

. quarter mile - 9.9 seconds

. gross vehicle weight (GVWR) - 3120 kg"

Lots of figures there, but what's the range?
Dave O'Neill 2

I think my point was for someone choosing an everyday car. Yes, at one time one would look at O to 60 times as a comparator. Many were around 13 to 15 seconds whilst for little more you could get down to 9 seconds. But now, whether it's 2.5 or 6.5 makes little odds on busy roads.
In an EV range was critical, but rapidly getting less so as things progress and you wouldn't choose an ICE just because of the size of its fuel tank!

In a modern ICE car you would look for decent fuel economy, and with the price of electricity rising one might reasonably want to compare miles per KWh between different EVs. I suspect for now there is probably not a lot of difference for the same on the road use but that will change. A while ago I linked to a British start up company working with AMG and developing a different type of electric motor giving about 4 times the output of the standard ones in use. That would make a difference!
GuyW

I wonder how many people actually consider any of the figures these days, apart from range for an EV. Most just seem obsessed with having an ugly huge high Chelsea tractor. Oh and if it's new in a colour which is best described as gloss primer.

Trev
T Mason

I think you've both missed my point but no matter.

Dave to answer you. - https://ev-database.uk/car/1176/Tesla-Model-X-Ludicrous-Performance

Guy, vehicle manufacturers are now working on different things, some electric, some not, some new companies, some of the old companies that have stifled progress for many decades, the Americans, wedded to oil, in particular but I'm sure there were others. But will any of it, or which of it, will actually come to real use or mass market.
Tesla might be the Betamax of electric cars, all the recalls, the company customer and service/repair set up, cybertruck mess, Musk's return on share opportunity for this year.
VW trying to distance themselves from their diesel cheating by pushing their EVs, with all their over complicated computer systems in their ICE cars already I'd not want one of their early EVs.
You don't want to be jumping out of the ICE frying pan into the EV fire, or any other kneejerk system.
Possibly China might use the UK as a testbed for their small very cheap EVs but do they really need to with such a large home market.
The stupidity of having oversized very heavy toy-ladened cars/vehicles with usually just one person in them will continue for a while yet and the current EVs are part of it, certainly with the middle-aged, older and elderly.
I had a short ride in a Tesla Roadster years ago and really liked it, if I'd had the money I'd have had one and would have an equivalent now but I'm not the average family unit.
It's all a Doris Day song to me. ♪ ♫ ♪
Nigel Atkins

Trev I'm with you on that, and that was part of my point, even in traffic, you can accelerate a large very heavy road tractor quickly let alone on a more open road whilst passengering behind the steering wheel. That's if the thing hasn't already caught fire with the brigade unable to do anything but let it burn. Best not to recharge some in a garage particularly an internal garage. 🤣
Nigel Atkins

"Best not to recharge some in a garage particularly an internal garage"

...or on a petrol station forecourt.
Dave O'Neill 2

I've not got an/the App to look at such things (or a 'phone' that can accept such Apps), I'm going to need a very long electric socket extension reel.

Remember LPG at petrol stations . . .
Nigel Atkins

There was an interesting anecdote on my usual social medium the other day.

The person bought a 3rd hand Tesla S 60 (I think that's roughly what it was called). He had to buy a new battery but the agent couldn't supply a 60 battery so they fitted the 'larger' one, a 70 or 90 (can't remember which) at no extra cost. All went well for a while with Tesla driver enjoying a longer range. One morning he discovered that the car's battery had reverted to 60. On enquiring, it turned out that Tesla's remote monitoring system had recognised the anomaly and done an automatic system reset. There was no notification that the change would be carried out and the dealer was unable to do anything about it. Tesla, of course, wouldn't budge.

That's one reason why I won't have a Tesla battery when we get solar panels installed - I don't like the idea of Mr Musk monitoring or interfering with any aspect of my life - mind you, the battery we're having will probably be of Chinese origin so maybe it will be Beijing keeping a controlling hand on my electricity supply!

As for modern dashboard controls and displays, I hear that at least one manufacturer is returning to tactile knobs and switches which are much better ergonomically; you don't have to take your eyes off the road to see that you're touching the right bit of the touch screen.

Finally, Youtube recently showed a really interesting video of someone trying an auto-driven Tesla on a very wet English road. The car got very confused with puddles, especially at a partially flooded fork in the road; it also mistook the edge of puddles for the edge of the road, steering round them, potentially into the path of oncoming traffic. I think the technology still has some way to go before I would be happy relying on it.

I think I'll stick with what I know and understand. I'm at my happiest when driving my Sprite with the wind in my hair knowing exactly where all the knobs and switches are and able to make my own mind up about whether to straddle or steer round pot holes and puddles!

C
C Mee

>>As for modern dashboard controls and displays, I hear that at least one manufacturer is returning to tactile knobs and switches which are much better ergonomically; you don't have to take your eyes off the road to see that you're touching the right bit of the touch screen.<<
And about time too.
I've been a bit confused and conflicted about the powers that be (rightly) forbidding the use of mobiles at the wheel while being apparently okay with touch screens.
Greybeard

Surely Dave the Geezer has traditional controls in his EV, they're there for the middle-aged, old and elderly, the youngsters are more interested in a, as much as possible, autonomous mobile media/computer centre than a car and I don't blame them, they're from this millennium not the last.

But I do worry about the transition.

Having put that for the last x-number of decades mummies and daddies (and grand parents and great-grandparents) have been providing for their line of offspring and doing everything for them and not teaching them how to properly do things with and on a car themselves so why would the current generation expect less than everything done for them in a car.

Reap what you sow - well it is a Sunday isn't it. 😊
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 28/07/2022 and 31/07/2022

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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