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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Timing Chain Cover - wanted

Hi guys, can anyone help, I'm building up a A+ engine to fit into my 68 sprite... I'm using second hand sprite front and back plates but need a timing cover - anyone have one I can buy ? I think I need a A+ one but are using duplex chains, so is there any modifications needed ??

I'll be using my sprite flywheel but I guess I need to have the hole enlarged. Anything else needed ?

Many thanks Matt

12 year engine repair - will be finished one day :-)
Matthew Mason

Matt.

Where in the USA are you? Im asuming belgium is a town, and not the country?

Are you sure the A+ series will work in your sprite, I have a gut feeling your Badly ill-informed.

Is your engine a transverse engine like the mini copper. or is it inline like the spridget....Im guessing this engine didnt come out of the car your working on. is that correct?


As to your need for a timing chain cover, they come up on ebay vary often at vary good prices, if you want to keep the "LOOK" you want the one without the Evac canistor, which in itself creats a whole host of issues


Tell us more about your engine if you dont mind?

Prop
Prop

You need an A+ cover if you're going to use a timing chain damper - and then youhave to drill som holes in the front plate.

(I believe)

Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

I said damper...I mean tensioner.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/73314630@N00/3323364603/in/set-72157613427903240/

Thats a marina (so not A+) block with the midget Frontplate drilled for the Tensioner. Takes the timing chain cover with the bulge. (you can see the outline of where it would go)

Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

There should be almost no problems fitting a tensioner to yer midget, I've recentley done it.
With a new timing cover (with flattened cannister) from minispares.
There is one hole to be drilled in the front plate, where the pivot-pin is recessing in the plate.

There's a little dent in the cover wich needs to be tapped out for a duplex chain, wich is "common knowledge". Then I came across a ridge on the inside surrounding the venting hole wich interfered with my vernier timing gear, the allen screws where "in the way". Simply cut it off with a dremel. (the ridge, that is)
You also have to drill and tap a 5/16 hole in the block itself, the "blob" where it should come is in the casting, I've arrowed two holes, can't exactley remember wich one.


Alex G Matla

Hi guys... I am in Belgium the country.. I've updated my profile but it still says the US !

The engine is an inline A+ from a marina

I'm using a duplex chain so I would rather not use a tensioner ! A. I don’t have one B. I don’t fancy drilling and tapping my newly cleaned block...

Which chain cover should I use for the least amount of modifications ?

I dont want to use the sprite one I have as I would like to keep my old engine complete ...

Lastly anyone in the UK have one in the garage they want to let go..

Thanks Matt
Matthew Mason

If you're not going for a tensioner than a std 1275 midget one will be fine without modification.

Sorry i dnt have a spare - like you I've kept my orignal engine complete and unmolested as a spare.
Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

Do you want one with the breather pot on it or not?

I have one without the breather pot. It was on my 1275 with a duplex chain. I swapped it as I wanted one with the breather pot.

If it's any good then e-mail me off board: antjallen at yahoo dot co dot uk
Ant Allen

Many thanks for the feed back I'll email off line...

I nearly fell over to see a MG 1275 engine and box on ebay for £600 needing a full rebuild !!

Cheers
Matt
Matthew Mason

I dont have my visard book, So I am vary confused. What is the differance between the standard A 1275 and the marina A+ 1275 esp if they both just bolt up to a rib case tranny....and how is the Marina A+ differant from the reg. A+ that goes into the mini cooper


Are there 3 differant crankshafts?

I know the one for the midget has the metal blob with 6 mounting holes to attach the flywheel...thats the reg. A series and mounts to a ribcase

I know the A+ series has just a straight crankshaft with NO blop, and the mini cooper fly is held on by friction...or some sort and wont fit a ribcase and sits sideways in the car

BUT how is the Marina A+ set up, is it a differant crankshaft or a differant kind of tranny from the 2 above.


Prop
Prop

While it's possible to have an A+ out of a Marina since the very last of the Marina's were fitted with the A+ engine it is more likely you have a Marina engine which is NOT an A+ engine.

The in-line A+ engine was from the Ital.


Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Ahh now I don't know, I didn't know there is a difference between the marina / ital block... I'll check the engine number this evening ....

Thanks for the help...

Matt
Matthew Mason

i've just fitted a marina engine to my midget, as far as I can tell the differences are:

marina has much bigger flywheel

the marina crank end is bigger, so the midget flywheel needs machining to fit (cost me £35 to get done)

the 'simplex' front plate doesn't have provision for engine mounts (the marina has mounts in the middle of the block)

so you need to swap the front plates over.

this also means that you need to swap from simplex to duplex (well, I had to :) ) as the midget front plate doesn't have the fixing for the simplex tensioner.

marina block is alternator not dynamo

marina manifold is different, but midget is a bolt on swap over.

and,

this is one i'm stuck on, the marina distributor fouls the steering column a tiny tiny bit on the king lead.

I'm not sure if it will just wear away or not, or if i will need to swap to a side exit dizzy cap, but i don't know if one is actually available for the marina dixxy ...
phil near bristol

marina should have a 45D dizzy if i am correct
and there are side entry caps for that
i however have only found them in the terrible screw on variaty
Onno Könemann

is the Marina dizzy a 45D? if so, you can use a side-entry cap from a MG Maestro 1600, just need to mod it with a knife and file, so the spring clips fit as it's originally a screw-fit fixing. I have some spares if you can't find one.
David (davidDOTsmithAT stonesDOTcom)

Onno and David,

I'll check the dizzy part number when I get home - there's no guarantee it's the original on the engine :D
good to know I can get a part to fit though.
phil near bristol

I double checked and I have a Marina engine ! good news its bored to 1310 and not 1290 as I originally thought...

Front and back plates are test fitted, need to find someone to open up the sprite flywheel … and brought a chain cover … now just working out what bolts I’m missing and the whole dissy issue, can I use a later mini electronic one ? That would save messing around with points and easy to install as its only 1 wire ….

Thanks for all the help


Matt

Belgium …
Matthew Mason

IIRC all A+ engines use a different dizzy drive dog arrangement, not the offset slot (and the electronic ones are A+ aren't they?) so it's not straightforward.
ISTR Bill did this mod?
David (davidDOTsmithAT stonesDOTcom)

The Marina engine IS NOT alternator only.

You can get electronic distributors for the A-series engine I have a couple, one is NOS but will need to be re-curved.!


Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

David,
It isn't the offset slot arrangement that is different, it is the length of the dizzy drive shaft. The A+ one is shorter to go with the later fork type clamping arrangement. Which means that using an A+ dizzy (MG Metro one works) on a standard A -series block needs some modification to the earlier CI bush and clamp arrangement.

But using the electronic Metro dizzy on an A+ block should be no problem.

Guy
Guy Weller

Little jump back to the side entry cap: I have an aldon 45D with side entry (exit?) cap with screws. Took out the screws and just use the clips, there are flats to clamp on, no problems.
Lucas DDB94 for i.e. Sherpa/DAF van.
Alex G Matla

hmm you could tell I hope from my ISTR and IIRC that I was unsure on the details...
Alex thanks for that part # - I've been using DDB123, 94 sounds a better fit.
David (davidDOTsmithAT stonesDOTcom)

>>is the Marina dizzy a 45D? if so, you can use a side-entry cap from a MG Maestro 1600, just need to mod it with a knife and file, so the spring clips fit as it's originally a screw-fit fixing. I have some spares if you can't find one.

Hi David, I've checked and I do have the 45D, so a side exit cap seems to be the obvious solution - how much for you to post one to me ? I have paypal or can post a cheque :)

phil near bristol

oh, my email is phil at spiny dot org if its easier to mail me, cheers :)
phil near bristol

Phil you have mail
David (davidDOTsmithAT stonesDOTcom)

I'm now looking for a 45D electronic dizzy to fit into my marina block assuming it will fit and work ... any pointers ?

Cheers
Matt
Matthew Mason

cheers david :D

fitted:

http://www.spiny.org/rr/midget/cap02.jpg

note missing lead, the new layout meant one lead was too short, even after swapping them around. So, one short trip to halfords:

http://www.spiny.org/rr/midget/cap03.jpg

all sorted :)


phil near bristol

Hadnt seen the version of the cap with leads going each way before.

This is mine :-

http://www.eatworms.org.uk/album/album2.php?album=Midget-Ignition&mode=page&index=2

(on Aldon yellow which is 45D based - and was a straight swap from oringinal block to Marina)
Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

yes that type gives neater HT lead runs, but it's taller so less space if you need to get at oil pressure take-off or starter motor, plus ISTR they're about 15 quid whereas the Maestro ones are a fiver or so.
David (davidDOTsmithAT stonesDOTcom)

This thread was discussed between 09/06/2009 and 22/06/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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