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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - To Penrite or not ?

Hi,

Penrite Oils - are they as good as the bumph or shall just keep feeding it Halfords 20w50 ? - it does drink a bit and spill a bit (like all good women!)

1275cc AHS with Marina engine it it, unknown actual mileage on engine.


Malc
Malc Gilliver

It's more important to make sure it is the right viscosity, changed regularly and conforms to a recognised specification, such as API

See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

There is some talk of removal of zinc from modern oils which protected out older engines from scuffing.

Dan Cusworth

Echo previous in that it is more important to change out regularly. I tend to change mine every 5000. Personal choice of course, but sticking an expensive oil in a relatively low revving and er agricultural engine is a bit like sticking a decent single malt in a hot toddy..
Mark O

I've managed over 110K miles on Comma 20/50 and only change it at 10K. These engines, A series 1275, are a lot stronger than you think
Lawrence Slater

When I had a moggie 1000 (A series 1098) in the 70's I did like Lawrence and it did 130, 000 before engine wear was too much and I swapped it for a gold seal.

Never had the marina's (1300's so 1275 A series) long enough to run up huge mileages as they were shunted and rotted but same regime and no problems.
Dave Squire

Thanks guys.

I had a mini 1000 that did 100k, but that was back in the days I could get Duckhams Q.

I suppose my question should have been, do the modern locally available 'classic' oils - Comma and Halfords (although from other forums I understand Comma make the Halfords oil) do the same job the original Duckhams Q did, or have the engineers and bureaucrats reduced the good things like zinc and phosphorus to silly low levels, in the classic branded oils to point where I need to buy Penrite or some other oil that is actually made like they did in the 80's ?

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Malc

I think you have read too many opinions and lack real facts like most of us due to the lack of real information being available.

If you use the link and click on the April 2012 newsletter it actually gives the zinc and phosphorus contents of a number of oil oil samples pre 1980 and the level is not that high if you have a browse.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/newsletters.php

Castrol Classic 20W/50 is manufactured to an obsolete API spec, that is SE. If you go on to the API website they warn not to use this oil on post 1980 engines as it does not meet modern standards.

I cannot fin a virgin oil analysis of any of the UK 20W/50 classic oils but from experience of checking these out where I can find them for non synthetic engine oil, I would expect the zinc and phosphorus to be similar to the older oil samples in the newsletter.

I will look tonight to find some modern but older spec oil analysis sheets.

eddie

Eddie Cairns

Martin Williamson, a long standing MG fan is also an oil engineer and has written a very informative web site on motor oil. See here http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/index.htm
Mike Howlett

I agree with Eddie and he's got the tech info to back it up, I have 20 years experience of different oils in daily use classics over hundreds of thousands of miles

I've used Halfords 20w/50 and Castrol XL 20w/50 in my current daily use midget for the first about 25k miles, both were good but the Halfords easier to get and slightly cheaper (much cheaper when on special) so more often I've used Halfords

IIRC both, but certainly the Halfords gave me negligible consumption with 6 months/6k-mile oil and filter changes

as that site suggests the thoroughness of the oil (and filter) changes are important - get the oil as hot as possible and drain for as long as possible

I used Mobil 1 (?5w/40?) and 15w/50 years ago in my classics and was told then it would do my engines no good but I put many thousands of miles on each car each year and had no problems and know for certain at least one of them was used (and driven hard) for many thousands of miles a year for a good few years after it left my ownership

the page Eddie linked to is a little out of date now as Mobil 1 for some reason no longer do the 15w/50 oil (I'll leave it to Eddie to explain if required the stretching of the meaning of synthetic) I used it to extend the change period to at least 12 months/12k-miles

coming back to Moil 1 in the last few years - as I use my car all year around and the previous winter had been so cold and the car was a bit sluggish to start I decided to use an oil more suited to the very cold than 20w and one that would extend the change period, against Daniel's advice, I tried Mobil 1 0w/40 and experienced a complete monetary loss of oil pressure after a very fast run and quick stop on an upward slope so I changed to Mobil 1 15w/50 having got some NOS as Mobil had stopped it by then - consumption was higher than the minerals but acceptable at 300ml for 1,300 miles including hard driving over the Welsh mountains

I'm now on Mobil 1 10w/60, I was concerned about the 60 bit as I want less resistance for performance (including mpg) but someone on here (sorry can't remember who) had tested the oil and put it dropped into the 50 range with use (see chart for bands) - if you're interested I'll check consumption on this year's Wales trip as I done an oil and filter change ready for the trip

I remember years back the scaremongering about unleaded petrol that was instantly going to destroy our engines (and probably make us homeless and toothless) and now 10% ethanol will destroy all our carbs, pumps and lines and insult our loved ones

I think oils are one of those subjects that often boils down to believe and no amount of evidence or lack of will convince some of those that are on either side

to conclude -
if you don't know the true state of the engine or mileage personally I'd recommend you use Halfords Classic 20w/50 and stock up one tin for the next oil change whenever it's on special offer


Nigel Atkins

"I remember years back the scaremongering about unleaded petrol that was instantly going to destroy our engines (and probably make us homeless and toothless"

That only applied to those who drank it Nigel. Those of us who stuck with meths were ok. lol.
Lawrence Slater

I tough Mike was an enthusiastic amateur like most of us here who have a great deal of trouble getting facts about oils rather than opinions.

I only have what I can find as I get annoyed with reading articles with lots of opinions and little facts

If Malc is an expert then I bow under his greater knowledge. Happens all the time that I get it wrong!
Eddie Cairns

Eddie,
I'm a bit lost with your post but that's not unusual

I for one are agreeing with you, I did have (different) links to factual more technical information but lost them some time back

the problem for some is that they don't believe one set facts preferring to believe another set of facts or 'facts'

getting facts on oil products isn't as easy as it should be from the oil companies and as I found you can turn up out of date info sheets so it's little wonder facts become harder to find with the small oil companies saying one thing and the larger ones saying very little about their products

I've often recommended Malcolm's web site along with others even if I didn't 100% agree with everything that is on them to to show the range of facts - and opinions

Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 10/09/2013 and 12/09/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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