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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - To reshell or not to reshell
Ok so as may of you know I, I was backed into in while driving home. I got 1300 bucks from my insurance company. A thought just crossed my mind, I have a spare bodyshell lying around in primer and surface rust. It is straight except for a portion of one of the rear fenders whech is bent inwards. Mt MG is rusted out in so many ways and frustraightingly bent and dented in several places. To wthings. Owuld 1300 bucks cover the cost of refinishing, rustproofing and painting the bodyshell? Aslo could you bear to part with and slice to bits a bodyshell that you grew up with? After swapping out the body, is it still the same MG? |
S.A. Jones |
Probably not. But remember, the $1300 is to repair the damage to your car, not the additional rust repairs and refinish the entire car. Start adding in what those repairs would cost and then I think you'll find that using the shell might be a good idea if it indeed doesn't have any major rust issues. Is it the same car? You probably won't be able to tell the difference unless the shell is from a an earlier or later series. Even if you plan on doing all the work yourself, figure on spending at least twice that amount to do the reshell. You'll wind up replacing all sorts of bits as you pull the car apart and reinstall those parts on the new shell. You'll want to clean and repaint parts, replace bushings and rubber items, etc. It will add up quickly. These days the cost of the paint, primer, and other supplies needed to repaint the entire shell would take up most of that $1300. If you do the reshell consider having the bottom coated in truck bed liner. More and more people have been using this instead of undercoating and are very pleased with the results. Has to be done while the shell can be turnded over as this stuff doesn't like to be applied overhead. |
Bill Young |
S.A., Bills right about it costing alot more than you plan once you start taking things apart. Oh how I know. Four years ago I was trying to stop a water leak around the drivers side windshield wiper bezel. One thing removed led to everything removed, replaced, repaired or painted. So, almost four years, $12 grand (not including the interior) later I basically have a new midget. It seems the small repair just snowballed on me, so be prepared for the worst. I don't mean to discourage you from swapping shells, just trying to prepare you for what may become more costly and time consuming than you planned. In the end, it was well worth (to me) the time and money spent. Rik |
Rik Hogan |
Bill, he shell is from a late 1969 model. Tho only noticiable differences at this point are the number and position of bumper mounting holes on the rear valence. I havent really studied it but it seems that with minor modification, not even the most discriminating concours judge would be able to tell. I feel like I could skip the cleaning and repainting of lots of things, but bushings would need to be replaced in the front suspension as its hard to save those when you take a arms off. The rear springs need recurving, I anticipate completion of it taking a very long time, but for me the bodywork is the biggest hurdle. I have virtually no money so its basically about preservation and useability above all else. That means no interior for the time beaing, and not worrying so much about cleaning every nut and bolt. |
S.A. Jones |
Late 69 would imply that it might have had the split bumper, or not. You might want to measure between headlight and front signals on both shells to see if it is the same. I think that you are at the ideal time and place to make the choice to put the winter into the replacement shell. Use a hammer to get your current car operational and invest your money and time in the future. David "Too many Spridgets, not enough time" Lieb |
David Lieb |
I got a couple/few question.. Is this your primary car, what year is the wrecked car, how much space do you have, how established is your tool chest, How comfortable are you taking on such a large project, how much time do you have to dedicate to this project... To me these are answers you need to have somewhat figured out....by no means is the simple answer the right answer...sometimes the answer will require some clever enginenuity, bartring, and quick thinking If you got a decent shell, it would be difficult for me Not to...esp. with winter on its way...after all what ya gonna do...watch the RAMS football...lol Much like ricks rebuild so went mine...I found my car as a repo, planned on putting $1000 dollars into it drive it a couple years and deposite what ever was left at a salvage yard....well one thing led to another, then another,,,5 years later and unknown hord of cash (stoped counting at $12,000...didnt want to know after that) Im the proud papa of my of my best friend....71 mg midget) I think I saw 3 movies during that 5 years, pizza hut became fine dinning, and I considered a big mack to be a heavenly devine steak...(McSteak house as I called it) why buy new shoes when goodwill sells used ones for only 3 dollars...Hey I can say I really did walk 10 miles in another mans shoes...lol...on top of that as long as the top of the shoes still look okay but just the sole is warn out... your local grocry store is happy to give away card board....and Italian night, mmm, MMM good, romone noodles,,,,just like back in collage...LOL Anyway what im saying if there is a will, you can really find away, Do the car right, if you dont, you will kick yourself over and over, till you cant sit down...what I mean by right is a vary subjective term...My way and ricks way where not exactly the same if you saw our 2 cars...mine is great for me, but ricks is show room better then factory....And bills...its the faster then cat stink getting nuked in a microwave oven, and some of the coolest mods of enginering i have seen in a long time. whaat Im saying dont expect to do this in 3 weekends...for me the real enjoyment was in the building...do I like driving it, sure...but there is something about building that cant be beat By all means...keep us posted...good memorys are in your future prop |
Prop |
S.A. you will be opening a proverbial "Pandora's Box" if you start into reshelling your car. I'm afraid that $1300.00 won't go very far. However, from the sound of it, the spare shell might be the way to go. Just be warned that you will start replacing/upgrading pieces when you see how tatty they look against a nicely painted shell. |
Clive Reddin |
S.A., you must have had a plan in your head when you came across your spare shell. I'd think now is the time to implement that plan. Maybe use some of that $1300 to buy some tools, like a mig welder and some other necessary bodywork things. It might be better (cheaper?) to take non rusted pieces from the spare and put them on your driver. Sounds like you will be getting into a frame off restoration otherwise, and it's hard to get your investment back on those. I wonder if your shell is a nearly complete car, or is it just a bare body shell. I bought a parts car that ended up as a finished car, just couldn't bear to part it out. I did part one out, and still kick myself for doing it. Maybe your local trade school has a class in bodywork and you could take advantage of that. The tools and expertise would be a great advantage for you. Doing this, you might even be able to put her back on the road, in better shape than before, for the $1300. There might be a semi retired body man in your area that doesn't mind doing dirty jobs like yours instead of what the big collision shops do. An old craftsman is a great find, and they can teach you a lot too. Ask around, they are out there, and can work miracles. Do you belong to a British car club? There are always guys that want to get their hands dirty and/or give good advice. Don't spend all the insurance money on beer for you, but don't be stingy when the guys come over to help you out, hehe. |
Tom |
OK maybe I shoulda been a bit clearer. It was the MG that got damaged. I figure if need be I can bungee the mesed up hood down. It hasn't been my primary vehicle, but I would feel more comfortable knowing that it could be if there is a bodyshell being painted and prepped. I have a full set of wrenches, a really nice jack, hammers, screwdrivers, socket sets, and access to an engine hoist. As David Lieb knows, I am a member of the chicagoland MG Club. BTW david, it wasnt designed for split rear bumper, thats what I'm trying to say. It has clips and drillings for the high side chrome strip instead of the later sill chrome strip and midget badges. Some history on my Midget. My dad purchased it in 1986 ish for $1500 from my uncle who had it for a few years before that (my uncle bought it from a used car dealership in ohio). It was his daily driver. Not much rust, and in decent shape. The interior was incomplete, and it was bronze yellow. about 4 years later it got totalled when a car ran a flashing red and slammed into the front right fender. The insurance money was adequite to repair the car using some used parts. It was garaged and rarely left on the street. by about 1995 or 1996 my father had lost interest in the car because it was time to replace the "why on earth did they haveta make it out of stupid carbon instead of someting tougher?" throwought bearing. SO it sat garaged untill 2000, when he decided he'd sell it to me for a buck if I could get it running and drivable. I replaced the clutch and I was skeptical because I remember it being unreliable, but I quickly learned to drive stick and fell in love with the car on my first joyride to the car wash! Over the years I have taken girls on dates in it, upgraded to a 5 speed transmission, added some go fatsre bits and tried to maintain the suspension as much as I can. In that time I have cursed and swore at the damage left over from the time it was totalled, been side swiped, rear ended, and baked into. I have watched in horror as cancer attacked the rear fenders, and tehn the front outer sills. I know at this point it would take more investement to redo the car than I can afford, but iI fear that if nothing is done, my beloved friend will be gone forever. Inspired by my misadventures in my midget, my father found a parts midget with no floors and an immaculate looking engine in an ohio cornfield and towed it back to chicago. We then bought a shell from a chicagoland mg club member. The parts car was a 70 one of the first with the split bumper, but as an early example it had the horn on the stalk and an unusual fingertrap steering wheel with upswept spokes. The project was to have been done while my brother was in high school, but it soon proved to be too much time and money. They were getting paint quotes for $4000 to paint the shell. Over time, that project has been getting on the road, one peice at a time. I have taken things from that parts bin to keep mine going. It may be time to take the ultimate step, and say goodbye to the shell I have known and loved for the last 23 years. I am short on time to work on it perhaps, but a painted shell is better than an unpainted one. Plus I love this car enough that with a little encouragement from club members, friends, and my gf Bekie, it will get done. |
S.A. Jones |
Seth, That blows your previous statement out of the water then. If the old shell is split bumper and the "new" shell is not, then the front signals will be at the wrong height and any concours Spridget judge (if there is such a thing) worth his salt will notice that. OTOH, in the real world, they frequently do not notice when one fender is the right one and the other is the wrong one, right Prop? David "non-concours" Lieb |
David Lieb |
Well david, at least the fenders will match! |
S.A. Jones |
LOL dont ask me, Mine match up, ask BC hamper, he is the one with the winker...one up one down...LOL here is a thought...take the good shell, do all the rough body work where the body shop will have adout a day to 2 days work, then take the shell to macoo for the top end ambassader $500 paint jobs...if you prep the car right, it will turn out good...better yet, you belong to the chicgoland Mg club as big if not bigger then the St. louis Mg club...Im sure there is someone there that will spray it for you for a case of old speckled hen and 3 pounds of davids private stasch of wisconsin made brats I know time is thight but you would be amazed at how fast thing go spending 1 hour a nite every night and really working that one hour....Another trick..work only one panal at a time...it goes much faster, and will look much better in the long run...you can have a nice basic rough in job in a week to 2 weeks where a pro can do the finish detail prep before paint in about 2 days prop |
Prop |
I guess I need to ask... what are you wanting to build???, a complete concours resto, or a decent running, run around town have fun, dont care about the door dings, and walmart makes good enough repacement instrament gauges, astro turf makes a great interior carpet, kind of midget? I think that is where we are all abite confused at ...basiclly what do you want this car to do??? The 1st will take $30,000 and 7 years to build and require a 60x60 fully stocked shop of S&K, Mac, snap-on tools with a 1000 boxes of bootie shoe covers and blue nitrate gloves The 2nd will take $1000, 4 weekends and a shady place under a big ol walnut tree, in the front yard, with $50 worth of Harbor frieght tools, and a bar of lava shop soap with a green scour bad to wash the oily grim out of your hands. prop |
Prop |
Fair question prop. Here is what I am after. I want it to look like it did when it left the factory. It has only to satisfy my tatstes. Concours guys generally go for better than new, I want it to look like it did on the showroom floor. That means flat black sills, bronze yellow paint leyland badges, kangol magnetic seat belts etc. The black interior restoration will have to wait. There re certain personal touches I want to retain. The datsun 5 speed, and the maniflow exhaust for example. I want durability, drivability, and just enough originality that the car doesn't lose the character it had when I first knew it as a small boy. Perhaps in a way I am a tougher judge than the concourse guys and yeah I have weird standards. She will be driven as much as possible. after the body is done, the next difficulty would be the interior. The seets have good covers and foams, but they need to be reworked a bit (I didnt put them together quite right 8 years ago), she needs a new carpet set, new interior panel set, , new dash, a rebuild of the kangol seat belts (i have all the parts in pristine condition, I just need someone to make up a set), Engine could use a bit of work someday (new cam and cylindar head), and a new top, possibly even a new wiring harness. In all I estimate 3000-4000 bucks total before I am "finished". That can wait (as long as I waxoyl regularly and really go crazy with rust inhibitors now) |
S.A. Jones |
3-5 years and 5-10 grand will see you on the road if you do all the labour except final spray. This will not include any chrome re-finish. You said "As it left the showroom" so: New interior and top 2k new suspension and brakes 2k engine re-build 3k Wires, rad, exhaust,miscellaneaous 2k paint materials and spray 2k stuff you and I have not thought of but you will do just because the rest is so nice and you can't stop now 2k OK, so I went way over budget, but this is what you asked for. Also, figure that it takes around 1000 hours of your time to do the work mentioned above. Gonna need a welder and a few other tools, so budget another 1k ( I am being WAY low on this one) As anyone on this board will tell you, in order to budget for a resto, add up every expense you can possibly think of, add a reasonable timeline, and double both for accurate results. It really is true unless you have done this a few time. Pete |
Pete |
Pete, Are you crazy??? You cant tell him the truth like that...someone please call S. A. and make sure hes okay, great now he is probably in the hospital from heart failure or a brain sizure Pete is so spot on. what you could do is this...go ahead and transfer every thing over to the new shell, spending money ONLY to buy new parts to make it safe to drive...rubber parts, break pads ect. That way you will have a rolling restro project. as money permits do a section at a time...aka..re-build the rear axle, then the front suspension, then the brake system, then the wiring ..on and on and on, you want to think of it like building a house build the foundation the walls the roof the extreior, then the interior then paint and last the flooring...same with the car..no real rules its what you decided the order should be, its still going to take 10 to 15xxx dollars and 5 years, but you will get to drive it and see the gradual improvement...and get the quality of build your after or take your $1300 and place it on the roulette table on "00" house always has the advantage and "00" is the house #, at 38 to 1 pay out, thats $49,400 ... If you win...and that number should come up at least once every 38 spins...your midget reto problems are solved prop...love the shortcuts ...prop |
Prop |
I think I sense what you need to do. Get it back on the road. Use the insurance money as wisely as possible, doing as much work as you can yourself, and don't worry about finish as much as function. Then drive it 'til the engine really needs a rebuild, or the rear end goes out, or something that will take her off the road again anyway. In the meantime, get that shell ready for the big changeover event. If you have enough time, get the interior stuff ready, too. Just a little attention every week will add up. If your old buddy never drops, you may end up with 2 cars. It's happened to me. Actually 3 toy cars now, and none of them cost me an arm and a leg to finish nicely. Sure, I could have spent too much and had trailer queens, but that's not what I wanted. I always have a driver in mind. I tell myself that I'm not going to spend that much time on the final finish, but get stuck in a few more days of priming, sanding, priming again, and so on. That's because of the price of paint. It's just not worth painting a whole car with defects. So they look a little nicer than my first intent. You will have a nice driver, as good as new, some day. |
Tom |
As far as the "It's been my car for so long" issue goes, it sounds like your dad fully sanctioned scrapping the old shell, so no worry there, when it's done. |
Steve (Georgia) |
This thread was discussed between 14/10/2008 and 22/10/2008
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