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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Toyota 5 Speed Conversion

I recently purchased a Toyota 5 speed gearbox which I intend to fit to my Sebring Sprite coupled to a 1098cc motor. I am experiencing a few problems and wonder if anyone else has done this job? It's supposed to be from a Starlet and comes with a suitable bell-housing. However first problem is the first motion shaft is about 1.5" too short to reach the back of the crankshaft with its phosphor-bronze bush. We decided to make up a boss to fit inside the flywheel with a roller bearing to take the gearbox shaft. However next problem is that about 8mm of the splines within the clutch driven plate will be off the end of the splines of the shaft when in the driven position. I suppose this might work OK though not ideal. I have yet to look at the questions of the activating arm, clutch slave, or what chassis mods are needed/mounting to fabricate. Then there will be the question of where the gear lever sits in relation to the original aperture in the transmission tunnel. Any help from you experts out there would be most useful. Thanks. Martin.
M E Ingall

on an Archive search - Richard Wale had/has(?) instructions for T5 installation
Nigel Atkins

Thanks for that. Do you have contact details for him, please?

Martin
M E Ingall

no but if you do an Archive search here putting 'Toyota 5 Speed Conversion' you'll find the thread with his posts
Nigel Atkins

I know that Alan anstead has done a few datsun boxes, but I seem to remember that he also did a toyota box. Possably Jeremy Cogman too.
G Lazarus

The Toyota conversion is missing from my CV. Three Datsuns many T9s to Spridgets but no Toyota. But I know a man who has. I have passed Richard Wale's contact details to Martin.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Sure I have read in the last month an article about a newly built WSM sprite being fitted with one of these conversions, what magazine was that?

I have in front of me a set of fitting instructions from Minor Mania who made the kits. and although the spigot bush must be changed there is no mention of any issue about 1st motion shaft being too long. There should be a bracket in the bellhousing to take the standard clutch fork and moutings on the outside for the slave cylinder. The box is a Toyota T50 and don't think it was ever fitted to a Starlet.

Incidentally I have a Toyota box with the correct bellhousing for sale if anybody is interested.

Roy
R Mcknight

Thanks to all for the tips so far. I think Roy, you are talking about Ian Hulett's WSM - I didn't realise he had a Toyota box but will ask him about it. 1st motion shaft is too short, not too long. I expect we can get over it. I have now heard from Derek Steart who has a Toyota box in his Sebring. I will speak to Richard Whale and to Minor Mania. Many thanks all. Great network.

cheers Martin
M E Ingall

I revisited the dellow conversion site in Australia that makes the toyota 5 speed kit....and just skim / brushed over the conversion for the midget

The T50... is more of a general generic term used by the toyota people, to be more specific your wanting the T2/T3 transmission variation (T2 has 20 output splines /T3 has 22 output splines) plus other differances

The (T 50) T2/3 is from a Celica ....I didnt read to detailed but I belive the T50 from a supra is a conversion to the 1500 midget... (im scatchy on that )

But dellow conversions. make there own bell housing to fit everything up

There are also variations in length and size and gearing With in the Toyota T50 transmission variations....those are lusted as well

Type in to google (dellow conversions mg midget) and it will give a link for a PDF file download to dellow conversions that can provide more details and which of the T50 (T2 / T3 trannys) you will need

good luck

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Many thanks prop. I will take a look.

cheers

Martin
M E Ingall

Is it the Starlet box or the T50 Celica box? I've used both, the Starlet box didn't have a separate bell housing, as I recall we made up a stepped phosphor bronze bush for that which did the job quite nicely, it wasn't 1.5" too short though!
Paul (MkI

Cogman here.

Martin, as Gary said, my car used to have a Toyota box in it though these days, like Gary, I'm a Datsun man

My Toyota was a integral bell housing box with a new engine front plate, all supplied by Frontline.

It worked well for a number of years and quite a few miles (the Sprite was my daily driver for much of that time). Main criticisms were:

-Having to butcher the transmission tunnel for the gearlever.

-A loss of rigidity, I never felt the bolt in cross member made it as rigid as the original one and I certainly noticed the difference once the cross member was welded back in for the Datsun.

-Post conversion it became apparent that if you have a problem these boxes can be very expensive to fix as even the bearings are non-standard and have to come from Japan.

-I had to fit an engine steady and pack up one of the engine mounts by about 5mm to stop the clutch slave from fouling the cross member under engine braking leading to resonance.

-On my box the clutch slave bolted on from inside the bell housing which always worried me from a maintenance point of view.

On the plus side it was a nice change and the ratios worked well with a 3.9 diff and a mildly tuned engine.

Jeremy Cogman

Many thanks guys. I have now satisfied myself that I have a T50 box rather than a Starlet - as you say Paul the T50 has a separate bell housing. My engineer has made me up a housing to bolt to the flywheel with a bearing in it for the first motion shaft. Still a bit concerned about the clutch plate hanging over the end of the splines though.

Thanks also Jeremy - glad to hear your box went well once you had its installation sorted. Looks like I should have gone for a Ford Type 9 but now I have started I will finish!

Cheers

Martin
M E Ingall

Martin, is your short input shaft not an opportunity to get the gearlever in a better place. Could the bell housing not be modified (cut and shut probably) to make it shorter? (of course you might then have to lengthen the propshaft).

If it were me I'd seriously consider selling the bits and going Ford where there is so much more knowledge and support for the boxes (alternative ratios, trick changes even a six speed option I believe).
Jeremy Cogman

This thread was discussed between 17/01/2014 and 21/01/2014

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.