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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Type 9 oil level

How is the gearbox oil level determined?
I assumed that the oil was filled until level with the bottom of the fill hole, however I have read somewhere that it is lower than this and the actual level is dependent on date of gearbox.
I think I have a later box, the oil filler plug is set at a lower position (I think, need to double check). Is this the only way to tell?
So what is the correct oil level?

Also, have an oil leak from the tail housing. Thought it might be the speedo drive but have sealed this, still leaking. There is defo some coming from the speedo tin cover but also I now think from the rear seal. Annoying as all the seals were replaced, but hey ho life would be boring without these little problems. Will try and change the seal in situ.

Other than that the 5 speed box is brill, best mod I've ever done.

Thanks

Les
Les Robinson

It's a sticky question Les

There are two oil levels quoted in the Sierra haynes book which depend on the model and year of the "donor" car (one is 25mm below the filler hole the other is level ish)

My manual isnt available at present either!

sorry

if there are two positions of the filler plug that might help organising it

except the book also gives two different oil quantities depending on model/year/box version

I have just had my third one delivered

I'll be changing seals etc, and desperately hoping BGH will advise me which capacity to go for

If /when I find out I'll let you know and put it in the Type9 section of the SpridgetWiki

And driving with the five speed, definitely my box of choice
bill sdgpm

Bill

Thanks.

Without sounding thick (not easy!), what/where is the SpridgetWiki.

Les

Les Robinson

Les

not thick mate

this is just very well hidden unless you bookmark it

http://taratec.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

which I recommend

doesnt have enough in it yet but she slowly grows
bill sdgpm

Because I was getting loads of spam, you do need to create an account; 30 second job ;-)
Toby Anscombe

Bill / Toby

Got it and created an account.
Thanks.

Les
Les Robinson

SHAZAM!!!

there are two positions for the filler plugs

The one in my car at present has a low placed plug


I'd assume that this one is "fill to level, let it run out and bung the plug back"


bill sdgpm

And the latest box in my collection is of the higher filler plug type that would seem to be an inch (25 of they continental millimotors thingys) above the lower level

like so

If the gear set is the same on all the type 9s (I suspect it will be) the level will need to be the same and the in the box depth needs to be about the same

This box has just had its drain plug added and is waiting a check on bearings and replacement of seals

The gasket set arrived yesterday

Soon be back in the quiet zone


bill sdgpm

Bill

I think that both positions are correct for 'fill and let it run out' level.
The higher fill hole is an early case. From what I can gather, Ford decided that the box could run with less oil so lowered the fill plug on later casings.
So both levels are correct but if you want to run the higher fill hole box with the equivalent lower level then I guess this should be ok, as you say all the internals are the same.
Does this make sense, do you agree?

Les
Les Robinson

I'd always fill to the level of the plug. I thought the fill level had something to do with the change in the tail casing?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

There are instructions in some editions of the Ford Sierra Haynes manual about filling to below the plug level. There is a little illustration of a miniature bent dipstick to make for checking the level through the plug hole. What is less clear in the instructions is which boxes this applies to. AFAICR it says something like "some of the later boxes", although it may quote a part nimber. I will have to find the manual that I have and check.

I also doubt that I always get the car properly level enough for this degree of accuracy.

Guy Weller

My gear box is off the car at the moment - is there a suggested/recommended way to give it a good clean out, before filling and forgetting for a while?

Cheers

JOn
J WHITE

Having just drilled and tapped the drain plug hole, also due to two previous "fails" of the type9s in my car, I'd like to flush the newer one out and refill when in the car with whichever is regarded as the "best" oil for the task.

[I did drill and tap through lots of LM grease and I think that between the grease and the magnet it ought to be filings free inside but I'd like to avoid finding box number four]

Does anyone have a definitive answer to which is the oil of choice?

I have usually used the Ford oil as recommended but that is getting hard to get, I understand Guy used a Comma product. Any suggestions?
bill sdgpm

I always wonder what are the consequences of over filling compared to under filling?

Also once you've filled it you have to drive it bit then park and wait before grovelling under the car to re-check the level (oil staying at the back of the box) -though I guess you only need to do this we a re-con box or after an engine change.

Mobil SHC gear oil when I could get it but since used what Halfords recommends which is the fully Synth Castrol gear oil which they sometimes sell. I'm not sure there is an agreed definitive oil other than a full synth is better than a semi-synth.

Bill, you are keeping all these old boxes aren't you?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Daniel

the first piece of ruined Ford "stuff" was in bits with all its gears in a state

I sold that to a company that sells modified tail extensions for £20...

The one I have in the car at present (no2) with its own personal A-series howl will be kept and possibly examined with a view to overhauling it. If no knackered gearsets are found.

The newest one (no3) will be checked over before putting in the car, the gears are looking good, no visible tooth damage on a cursory inspection. I have the gaskets and if I think its a worthwhile cause I'll fit new bearings even though that is an expensive game. Seals will be changed of course

I always drill and tap a drain plug now so I can remove the box empty if I ever need to, I'm glad I did this to no2, when no3 goes in it'll be nice not to have a lake of 75/90 all over the garage floor

I am sure the type9 is very sensitive to overfilling, that is what I think I did with no1 and why it developed a fault. It had several busted teeth and knacked bearings.

I think I put too much of the wrong oil in it...

still I got £20 for it, only cost me £1
bill sdgpm

Er just noticed a daft bit

"I sold that to a company that sells modified tail extensions for £20..."

should read

I sold that for £20 to a company that sells modified tail extensions...

:(
bill sdgpm

I went with the oil recommendation attributed to Brian Hill of BGH in an informative magazine article on the T9 boxes. It stresses the importance of using the right oil in these boxes. It lists Ford ESD M2C175-A Red oil (75/90)or Comma High Performance Semi Synthetic gear oil, SX75W-90.

My local ford dealer said that Ford specification oil was no longer available and tried to sell me a modern replacement at some ridiculously high price. So I went for the Comma one which was around 1/4 the price at nearer £5 a litre.

Guy
Guy Weller

ta Guy

I'll try to find that locally then
bill sdgpm

Bill,
Any chance you could describe how and where you inserted a drain plug into your type 9 please? Any photos?
Thanks,
Neil
Neil (K series)

Neil,
There is a convenient and obvious flat area on the bottom of the box. I drilled and tapped that to take a plug, then dressed the surface around the hole with a file to make a sealable surface for a copper washer. It works well enough although it was slow to drain until I realised one needs to remove the filler plug as well to let the air in.

The only thing to watch for is the flat area houses a ring magnet on the inside so the drain hole is aligned with the hole in the magnet. I guess the oil drains past the magnet and any iron debris gets caught by the magnet. Thinking about this it might be better to do away with the magnet and to use a magnetic plug instead so that it is removed and cleaned when the oil is drained. Better than leaving it in the box for the fresh oil.

But then, the idea is really just to enable one to drain the oil when the box is being removed anyway. It isn't just for an oil change as that should never be necessary.

Guy
Guy Weller

10mmx1 bolt cut short

copper washer to seal

and drilled and tapped into the bulgey bit to avoid yonder magnet that lurks inside t'flat bit

As Guy points out it's only so I can drain before removing


bill sdgpm

I'm sure Brian at BGH gave the nod of approval to Mobil SHC else I wouldn't have used it. At some point I'll contact him again and add 'what oil to use' to my list of questions.

Anyone with a spare Type 9 magnet I'm interested in acquiring one.

Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

This thread was discussed between 01/04/2010 and 09/04/2010

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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