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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Type 9 woes with a Morgan (SMC)

SMC = slight or some midget content, at least applicable to type 9 owners.

My neighbour has a type 9 gearbox in his Morgan that has recently started to whine quite a bit and when he investigated by checking the oil level it seemed to be OK but the oil was very dirty and thin compared to the recommended oil and that which I have in at least one type 9 when we pulled the top cover off. He was all for drilling the bottom of the box in situ to fit a drain plug but a Morgan chassis crossmember is in the way so preventing the drilling in the middle of the magnet depression. I presume the type 9 has a magnet like the earlier gearboxes and has a hole in the middle. In the end I remembered that as he had a surplus windscreen washer motor that was pressed into service to drain much of the oil out of the box with some thin washer tubing poked in the fill hole. Running the motor at 12V resulted in smoke after awhile but after letting it cool I suggested running at 6V off the charger and it seemed happy to pump the remaining oil out. Dirty and with lots of metal debris in it so not good. It's getting refilled with good oil but a new/recon box is planned. I suggested BGH from comments here but he had seen Burton have OE standard (apparently) boxes at a good price but delivery is like 28 days.

Any common problems with the type 9 other than it was known for bad shifting, unlike most Ford boxes. My neighbour mentioned he had seen it mentioned as having a fault with popping out of reverse but I think that might only bother autotesters and others that use reverse much.
David Billington

a link - http://www.type9gearbox.co.uk/type-9-faults-and-problems.html

Nigel Atkins

oh and fitting a new gearlever saddle bush will help with changes and rattle - plastic - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-TYPE-9-GEARBOX-GEARSTICK-SADDLE-BUSH-Sierra-kitcar-quaife-tran-x-westfield-/390413703231?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5ae678583f

heavy duty HT brass version - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEAVY-DUTY-FORD-TYPE-9-GEARBOX-GEARSTICK-SADDLE-Sierra-kitcar-quaife-tran-x-/390413701175?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5ae6785037
Nigel Atkins

Speak to BGH, really nice guys. They will advise on oil and any other problems you have. They will supply a type 9 to any requiements you have. Fully recommended.
Cheers John
HALL JOHN

I've passed on the information to my neighbour about BGH and he's considering it for a next winter job. Currently having drained and filled with the appropriate oil it is working better but jumps out of reverse at the slightest provocation. I had not heard that was a problem with the type 9 but apparently he has seen that it is.
David Billington

Visited BGH earlier this year. The oil they recommend and sell for the type 9 is Comma SX75W-90 GL-4.

Lawrence Slater

I'm not suggesting this as a cause just for future reference as with the saddle bushes

just a statement of something two people with two different type 9 boxes found - if the rubber gear lever gaiter used is too tight on the neck a mate and I found on our type 9s that on the over run it could pop out of gear (not reverse)

Comma was the oil I used to use before the (I found better) Mobilube

I've got a litre of the Comma SX75W-90 GL4 unused going spare for free if anyone wants it - recent oil not old stuff

Ford 1 045 737 Ford spec WSD-M2C200-C 75W-90 BO was the recommended oil previously

this was possibly Ford Part number 1 045 737 for 1L bottle
Nigel Atkins

That Ford oil was really expensive wasn't it, and it was no different to the Comma.

Actually I'm going to change the oil in my T9 box soon, as in the cold weather mine is a bit tight going into 2nd and 3rd until it's done about 1/2 mile. Could be baulk rings, but I think it's the oil, so maybe the Mobilube will sort it.

Luckily I had the foresight to drill the hole mentioned earlier under the magnet, in case I ever wanted to drain the oil.

Why didn't ford provide a drain in these boxes? Anyone know?
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,

I think the reason that Ford didn't provide a drain hole is that for the design life of the gearbox one oil fill would do the job with maybe the odd top up so the drain was superfluous and cost money. They saw an opportunity to save money and took it, a few less machining steps in the gearbox manufacture. I can see that as a reasonable decision as the gearboxes we are all using are likely beyond their design life but still serviceable. I've been told by a few people that in the old days Ford were known for good gearboxes and crap engines, whereas BMC were known for good engines and crap gearboxes, I agree with that from my experience.

A mate that works in the engines development industry has mentioned how he and many of his colleagues hate working for Ford as they are so anal about saving the last fraction of a cent, pence etc, on a project.

So to sum up why didn't Ford provide a drain hole, because it wasn't needed!
David Billington

Up to you L but for an extra few quid the Mobilube is different to the Comma and I found it much better

my mate uses Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 Fully Synthetic MTF it's a GL4 so should keep you GL4ers happy - slightly dearer than Mobilube

this April I syphoned out 1.5l out of my gearbox and the oil that I took out looked to me to be clean and in good condition but putting 1.5l of Mobilube made an immediate and noticeable improvement to the gear changes
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 Fully Synthetic MTF sounds like just the ticket.

One of it's boasted specs is:

"Exceptional cold flow properties giving smoother gear shift at low temperatures."

Thanks David.
Actually I too remember that saying about Ford engines vs g/boxes, and also agree from my own experience. The gearbox on my old cortina and consul capri seemed indestructible, but both the engines were smokers relatively quickly by comparison.

So it was to save money and time by not fitting a drain. Yup I guess that's it. Also, I suppose you can drop most ford boxes under the car without needing to tilt them. Unlike our installation where it comes out via the engine bay and drops the oil out the back end. So I'm glad I have a drain.


Lawrence Slater

This is my (240BHP strong) type nine with long 1st gear I got from BGH.
I requested for a drain plug as extra and theyve made one for me(dark bold on bottom gearbox on photo).



Arie de Best

That's a better location than where I put mine under the magnet.

Not only lower, but also clear of obstruction. Shame I didn't ask the GBH mob before I drilled mine. But the flat area under the magnet seemed to be the logical place for it, as if it was a blank waiting for a drain.

How much did you pay for that?

Do you really expect to get 240bhp from your engine? :)
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
just saying - Mobilube improved my gear changes immediately and it wasn't cold in April

you need to get the Castrol for less than £12 a 1 litre bottle or you're paying more than the Mobilube and I know you wouldn't like that :)

I'm sure putting the Castrol in will improve things, (you'll need 2 litres) but how much more than just refeshing with Comma

only way to tell is refill with Comma, I'll donate a litre, run with it for a while then empty that out and refill with Castrol
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 17/05/2012 and 26/05/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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