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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Water in Oil - Ongoing issue

I have an ongoing issue with water getting in the oil on a 1275 sprite.

I alway's thought that the problem was with a blown head gasket but I now have to change this on a yearly basis to try and solve the problem.

When I put the car away at the end of last year I checked the levels and all was well. Had an opportunity to use the car over christmas and checked the levels and sure enough water in the oil.

A considerable amount at that.

Now being fed up of this yearly ritual I'm thinking that the problem is somewhere deeper in the engine and not actually related to the head as last time I put a known good head from another engine and the same problem has occured.

My thinking is that by the time I take it somewhere to have a collant system check etc etc etc I'm thinking it would be cheaper and quicker to buy another engine and drop in.

btw last time out I now have oil dripping out of the gearbox so need to replace the crank seal anyway so that is another factor in my decision.

Any inputs greatfully recieved or if anyone has a decent 1275 engine for sale in norfolk I am very interested.

Cheers
Shaun
Shaun

Could be a crack in the head, so don't condemn you whole engine just yet. Take the head off and have it pressure and crack tested by a decent engine shop. If this proves to be the case, you're only looking for a head rather than an engine.
The rear crank seal isn't a seal as such but a scroll which theoretically throws oil back into the sump as the crank rotates. They all usually leak a little bit and are susceptible to crank case pressure.

Bernie.
b higginson

Bernie,
I hate to correct you, but Shaun does say he has tried this with a different head. It seems unlikely that he would have two heads, both cracked. But it could be a cracked liner, or the liner could be leaking at the bottom interference fit allowing water into the sump.

A good engineering shop should be able to fit new liners. Its documented in the Workshop Manual, although I think it is a fairly rare job as in the past it has just been easier to find a replacement engine. But good 1275s are beginning to be harder to find.

What does anyone think of the magic fix products like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Steel-Seal-permanent-gasket-cracked/dp/B004FTUBY2
Guy

Are you 100% sure it's not condensation? I always get a bit of emulsified oil on the dipstick when first running it up after winter. Recently it has got very warm after being very cold, perfect conditions for condensation. My old Metro was really bad for it and I think the more complex the engine breather system the worse it is. If you have an oil cooler it makes it worse as well as the oil doesn't get hot enough to burn the moisture off.

Obviously only you know the exact symptoms and if you are talking huge amounts water then condensation can't be the problem. But something to consider anyway.
John Payne

I have to add the head I put on came off the engine I had been running in my midget with no issues with water in the oil that's why I'm thinking that it is more of an engine issue.

So I will keep a look out for an engine. Anyone know of any good engine guys in Norwich as I have a 1275 sitting in my garage that needs a rebore and then would be good to go.
Shaun

Guy. It's an age thing. I completely missed that bit!. LOL.
I've never seen that stuff, but it might be worth a punt at £27.95.

Bernie.
b higginson

My engine has a similar leak.
Having tried different heads and gaskets I am convinced the problem is in the block.
But with a can of bars leaks with the yearly oil and coolant change it seems to work ok for the past year and a half.
(I just need to make sure it gets up to temp as running cool exaggerates the problem)

So I am slowly building a new engine to my ideal spec.
And as long as the build takes the 1380 will have to survive.

My advice would be try the cheap options first.
So in with the wonder cures.
It surely wont hurt.
Onno K

Perhaps that's the secret ingredient the previous owner did'nt tell me about..........

I will give it a go and see what happens.
Shaun

Bars Leaks, and similar, are cheaper than the product I linked to. They work by forming a sort of "clot" in the leak and work well enough with ordinary coolant problems. The manufacturer's blurb for the more expensive stuff goes on about it being a chemical bonding agent, claiming this works as a permanent repair for cracked blocks subject to temperature stresses. Maybe hype, or maybe it is better?
Guy

Guy,

Does the workshop manual indicate the liners are wet liners, they can leak. The only linered A series I've seen, a 948, was dry linered which is what I would expect for a parent bore engine.
David Billington

Gentlemen. Most of the engines I have examined were not sleeved (linered), although I have heard of one fellow who claimed that his engine came with a single liner from the factory. I seem to remember something about some of the cast iron blocks being porous and requiring some form of treatment to correct this problem. The engine in question (mentioned in Classic and Sports Cars magazine) was a big Healey. Water leaking into the oil is most commonly a headgasket problem. Oil leaking into the water can come from anywhere because the oil is operating at significantly higher pressure than the cooling system pressure.

Les
Les Bengtson

I haven't had first-hand experience of liners on these particular engines (although I have on others).

The reason I mentioned liners is that replacing liners is covered in both the Workshop Manuals for the early 948cc engines and for the later 1098cc and 1275cc engines. It covers it in some detail and mentions pressing out the original liners, rather implying that they were fitted to all blocks from new and that it was expected to be a standard renovation option for worn bores. Checking again I see that they are listed as dry liners so perhaps would be unlikely as a source of a water leak, unless the block backing the liner was cracked also.
Guy

I figured it must be a leak from a water galery to the sump in my case.
As any other option would show oil in the water in stead of water in the oil.
Onno K

Sounds like a porous block...

Most engines aren't linered - the ones that I have stripped that have been tend to be gold and silver seal factory rebuilds with standard sized pistons
James B

This thread was discussed on 27/02/2012

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