MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - water leak on sprite

Hello, this is all a bit new to me, but I have joined up because after a twenty year lay up I am finally trying to bring a mk iv sprite back to life.

Managed to get the engine started a couple of weeks ago and spent the last couple of sundays tracking down and fixing fuel leaks. Seem to have cracked that problem so ran it for ten mins or so. All looking and sounding good, running smooth and showing 60psi oil pressure at fast idle.

Thought it was getting very hot so shut down. Expansion tank had water in but rad was dry. filled rad and started up again. Water started to be sprayed aroung garage. Seems to be coming from water pump area and getting on to pullys and belt hence the spray.

Is this likely to be a simple case of replacing gasket and maybe pump or could it be more serious?

When I have looked through the archive bbs you all seem like a nice helpfull bunch so if any one has any comments or suggestions I would love to hear from them.
M Adams

It's likely the pump seal will have failed after such a long lay-up.

Probably a good idea to replace the pump and all hoses. Also, the radiator probably wants flushing.
Dave O'Neill 2

Need to determine exactly where the water is coming from... could be the pump, the gasket, various hoses (incl clips)...

So please find source, and that will determine the action...

A
Anthony Cutler

Sounds like a good start. will order up some parts and have a crack at it next weekend.
M Adams

Sounds like pump or gasket as you say but as the water pumps are so cheap and now good quality you might as well change it

be careful to get the correct pump

it as radiator out job so you might as well go the whole hog and drain, flush, back flush and flush again the engine block, heater matrix, heater tap and radiator

and you might think to change the hoses to silicone but if there's OK don't change to modern rubber/kevlar ones as they can be rubbish now also new fan belt

from 'my usual advice to new owners' posts:

For a coolant change drain the whole system - engine block, rad and heater matrix if you can get any of these out to give them a good shake at the same time as flushing and back flushing then all the better - the sequence is use cleaner as per its instructions then flush, back flush and flush and continue this until water runs clear, refill with the correct coolant mixture but bear in mind in tap water isn’t always the best water to use

If you clean the whole of the coolant system and also renew the seals and foam around the heater matrix you will find the heaters can get very hot

As new rubber cooling hoses tend to be poor quality now this is also a good chance to change them to silicone and rounded-edge clips - http://www.classicsiliconehoses.com/
N Atkins

Sorry this is all a bit new to me will try and get the hang of answering in order!

I'm 90% sure that all hoses and clips are sound and 99% sure leak is around water pump area. I suppose whatever happens I've got to take rad out and dig a bit deeper.
M Adams

whilst I was typing you got two more replies

if the car's been laid up for 20 years then you should really be looking at my full list

if you've not seen it I can copy and paste to a post here
N Atkins

That would be great thanks. A bit more detail - a lot of work was done on it during the early years off the road. The engine is a recon with about 20k on it that i bought and fitted about ten years ago, then houses wife and children slowed me down! Having got a bit more time to myself now I thought it was time to have another bash at it.
M Adams

M Adams

When water is being sprayed around by the fan it can be difficult to see exactly where it is coming from. Try temporarily removing the fan belt and running without it - but only for a few minutes! You could find that the leak is from the little hose between pump and cylinder head.

Rather off your current problems, but do check the brakes and tyres if the car has been unused for 20 years. brake cylinder seals could well have rotted and even if tyres still have plenty o9f tread they certainly have a "use by date" which will be long passed.

Guy
PS What does the M stand for? Most here are on first name terms and it makes it easier and more polite when replying
Guy

>>> Try temporarily removing the fan belt and running without it - but only for a few minutes! <<<

But - without the fan belt, the water pump won't turn, so unless the engine gets hot, you might not see a leak anyway, as the pump wouldn't be pumping.

Just a thought,

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

That's true Gryff, and I did consider that, but I believe that the pressure will still goes up quite quickly as it heats up, and maybe be enough to demonstrate the leak.

The other possibility is that it may be leaking along the pump spindle, but this may not occur without the pump turning.
Guy

you certainly may have to consider overalling the brakes and brake system, clutch and clutch system, suspension bushes, fuel lines as you've already found

replacing the grease and oil in suspension

100% certain the tyres will have to be changed

changing the bypass hose with thick-walled hose (off-cut of silicone is best) would be part of the coolant system overall

and including all below:

My advice to you as a new(ed) owner -

Buy an owners Handbook and read it thoroughly as it tells you so much you need to know to own, drive, service and maintain your car and it’s very useful to have as a paper copy even if you get electronic copies later - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

Always have the battery in good condition and all battery connections and leads clean, secure and protected, same for all electrical wiring and connections

As soon as possible after purchase do a full and proper 36,000 miles service only miss out items that you have 100% proof have already been done very recently, including;
g/box and back axle oils
brake and clutch fluids
coolant
dissy cap, rotor arm and leads (buy good quality ones) - http://www.distributordoctor.com/rotor_arms.html
fan belt

For a coolant change drain the whole system - engine block, rad and heater matrix if you can get any of these out to give them a good shake at the same time as flushing and back flushing then all the better - the sequence is use cleaner as per its instructions then flush, back flush and flush and continue this until water runs clear, refill with the correct coolant mixture but bear in mind in tap water isn’t always the best water to use

If you clean the whole of the coolant system and also renew the seals and foam around the heater matrix you will find the heaters can get very hot

As new rubber cooling hoses tend to be poor quality now this is also a good chance to change them to silicone and rounded-edge clips - http://www.classicsiliconehoses.com/

Be aware that brand new parts can sometimes be faulty, especially electrical bits (see just above) so don’t discount them when problem solving just because they are new, buy good quality parts

Check the age of your tyres if they are 6 years old or more replace ASAP regardless of tread depth, this will improve the braking, steering, ride, handling and possibly noise and safety of the car greatly

Use the car regularly - to get used to it, sort out any wrinkles and prevent the problems that occur with lack of use, and to enjoy it

Every few weeks check your horn, wipers and all switches work and heater valve turns on and off (all no problem if you use the car regularly)

Follow regular checks, servicing and maintenance as per owners Handbook

Drive in all weathers, the midget hood should be very watertight if fitted correctly and the heater is more than adequate, if working correctly, for the small cabin

Do not do any cosmetic or improvement work for at least 12 months of regular use, unless you need to replace parts or components, as you may need to use the money elsewhere on the car

Also very useful, you can get suppliers catalogues for free to get you started to see where things go but in my personal opinion they’re not as good as a paper copy like - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Parts_Lists_3.html

You can also get an excellent DVD that includes original Parts Catalogues, Parts Fiches, Workshop Manuals and owners Handbooks to have in electronic format - http://www.motoringclassics.co.uk/heritage-range/c380/pg1/sr1

Cheers, enjoy your car
N Atkins

Hello again. first of all thanks for all the replies, good stuff! My first name is Mark.

Looking at what I wrote yesterday I think I left the impression that I had covered the old girl with a tarp twenty years ago and left it there till a couple of weeks ago. This is not the case.

In the early stages while I was still young and enthusiastic the car was stripped to a rolling shell. It had new floors, inner and outer rear wings, inner and outer sills and a shopping list of other bits welded on by a bodywork repair man. I then repainted the shell. Its been dry stored ever since.

over the next few years the suspension, brakes etc were all rebuilt. In an effort to speed things up (lol) I bought a recon engine and some other bits and bobs from a fella scrapping a midget. This was fitted along with a brand new loom.

So I do have a well thumbed Haynes manuel as a constant companion and am not quite the shrinking innocent I appeared.

Having slept on the leak (as it were) I think it best to bite the bullet and do a full overhaul of the coolant system. Will order parts this weekend and hopefully get on with it next weekend.

I can try and get some photos up loaded if any one is interested.
M Adams

Yes we are Mark

hi

And welcome "home".

We all try to help as much as possible, so you will soon feel homely.

:)

Pictures always welcome.

This site only allows one picture to a post so you will often see three or four posts just to introduce the next pic and the next one and…

Bill 1

Thanks Bill good to be aboard.

Picture shows current state of affairs


M Adams

Mark,
Hi car looks great , just out of interested where abouts in Kent are you based ? im in Kent myself

Is that a Sebring bonnet you have there to fit on , looks superb

Andy
Andy Chaffey

Hi Andy

I'm in Rochester.

The bonnet is an old ex racing sebring bonnet that i picked up at an autojumble many years ago. Its just about ready for top coat, but I want to get it trial fitted first. I've got the proper hinge assembly on order. So if I can get to the bottom of my water leak and get the engine running smoothly thats the next job.

Mark
M Adams

Mark,
Im in Maidstone if you ever need a hand , drop me an e mail and i will send you my phone number

Presume you are getting your hinges from archers ? i have just picked up my sebrin kit from them.

To fit my bonnet i had to remove the flange from the outer wheel arch , might be something you need to have a look at

Thanks
Andy
Andy Chaffey

Be sure to check the hose between the cylinder head and the water pump. This is a bit hidden and may be the source of the leak. If so, replace it with a bit of 1/2" heater hose. Those accordion hoses don't last and may be the source of theroblem
Glenn Mallory

The pipe that Glenn mentioned seems to crop up alot, I shall make sure I have a good look at that when access is better.

Andy, thanks for the offer of help, you may live to regret that! I,m getting the hinge from Peter May engineering, Is that bad? I have come across recommendations for him a few times on the net so thought he was the chap to talk to. When I roughly put my bonnet in place it seemed to fit ok with the arches as standard, but i suppose that may not be the case when i give it my full attention.Fingers crossed
M Adams

for the bypass hose I used to give away a special made kit - an off-cut of silicone hose and two round edged clips - spare from a couple of used of silicone hoses

a thin walled concentina hose is sometimes used when access is restricted by these appear to be less durable (though a lot of rubber hoses are rubbish nowadays)

a shortened piece of silicone (which is thicker walled and very durable) will fit with head and rad in situ as it is more pliable than standard rubber hoses

remember on all hoses clips if you fit them with the rad out to make them easily accesible when the rad is back in our you might curse yourself later if you need to undone them
N Atkins

This thread was discussed between 01/07/2011 and 03/07/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.