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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Welding

Chaps

Useless at welding and have a hankering to have a go with a machine of my own, purchased second-hand from Fleabay or somewhere. General purpose use - MIG with gas I believe may a good start - recommended makes of welder or what to look out for appreciated. Is there asnything useful you gents have seen on the web in order to to pick up practical hints and tips?
Oggers

Don’t buy a cheap used one.
There is a reason it is being discarded.

A lot of the cheaper machines are quite reasonable nowadays.
I would prefer one with a removable torch lead and a good supply of spare parts/consumables.
Make sure you can adjust it low enough for thin panels.
As for the bottle I do not know the system in the UK but here it is cheaper in the long run to buy your own bottle and have it filled (preferably co2 argon mix)

Use a lot of scraps and go for it!
O K

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/ is good for information. An idea of your budget would help. The low end ones can be troublesome but can work well when set-up correctly. I've been given a couple over the years that the owners had stashed under their benches as they couldn't get them to work properly, both worked well when set-up correctly and I sold both on for what it cost me in time to get them working. My personal machine is an Eland 160A MIG bought new in 1986 and still going strong but it is a light industrial machine. Can you find anyone in your area with the type of machine you want that may allow you to try it out.
David Billington

Get an automatic darkening helmet right from the start.
GuyW

Everything you need to know is right here:

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/mig.htm

I was absolutely terrible when I started my project. I had a couple of pointers from a mate and then I was on my own. It took me a while to learn what I was doing wrong, but now I am good enough that I am generally happy with my welding, but it still sometimes goes wrong and is far from perfect.

Some pointers I have learn't along the way:

1. Wear gloves and long sleeves and don't wear shorts!
2. Buy a decent auto dimming mask
3. Buy/rent a 10 ltr 5% co2/argon mix bottle and regulator, you pay a deposit for the first then less to replace with a new one - don't get the little disposable ones they don't last.
4. Buy your mig welder and cooper wire
5. Make sure you have good ventilation when welding
6. learn about the power settings as different thicknesses of metal will require different power settings. Too high settings on thin metal will make nice holes in the metal rather than good penetration!
7. learn about the wire speed - you'll need a faster speed when welding upside down compared to down flat.
8. Weld small sections at a time - less can be more, especially when you have to grind it all back again.
9. Brace everything well and measure at least ten times before welding in a panel.
10 practice lots and then practice some more!

Attached is my first attempts!

Good luck

James



James Paul

Great comments, just remembered the sunburn on my arms after making exhaust manifolds.
And I just took the auto dimming mask for granted but yes never want to go back to (forgetting to) flip down glasses.

And go to youtube.
Plenty of good chanels on welding.
Urchfab is a nice one with good welding tips
O K

Oh and make sure you buy some weld-through primer spray to coat the metal before welding which protects the joints from rusting. But make sure you weld on clean metal and not on the primer.

So I will drills the holes in the panel, strip back to clean bare metal, spray primer, let it dry, brace panels together, use small wire brush drill attachment to clean the hole I am welding and then weld.

This post gives an idea what I am on about:

http://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/2017/01/outer-sill-welding-into-position-part-1.html
James Paul

Definitely Mig-Welding site for everything bodywork wise, they have a good forum as well.

I couldn't get on with my automatic mask and have gone back to the old hand held one. No matter how I had it set I seemed to get a tiny flash before it dimmed and as I already have an eye problem I thought it best to be on the safe side. I'm not planning on doing much more welding so not really a problem.
John Payne

I have 2 auto masks, one a £60 ish SWP that works well and I use it for MIG and stick, and an Optrel for TIG. I've had 2 cheaper ones that both failed, the first was too dark and even outdoors on a sunny day the weld area couldn't been seen so I switched back to a fixed filter which didn't need to be flipped down as the weld was clearly visible through the filter and welding progressed again as I could see what I was doing. The 2nd cheap one just started to lock on in the dark state and might recover if left for 5 to 10 minutes, I returned it to the supplier and was sent the SWP as a better replacement as they no longer sold the other model.

It's worth keeping in mind that the auto dark helmets should always give full UV and IR protection even in the non darkened state.
David Billington

I have had 2 cheap auto darkening helmets. The first bought in the 1990's was ok and I was satisfied with it at the time but replaced it because the helmet itself split where it pivoted on the head strap and by then the visor glass was well scarred with weld sparks. I bought a replacement around 2010. Although also a cheap one at around £30 it is much better than the first; easier to see before it darkens and a faster response. I think the cheap ones have improved over the years and although a quality professional one is undoubtedly better, if you don't want to spend £££ then the cheaper alternatives do work.

I also use a small handheld shield for small jobs where access with the headshield is just too bulky to get into the right position.

I do find having a very bright localised spotlight on the work makes a lot of difference.
GuyW

I have a Clarke unit bought new in 1990. It did a lot of work in the first few years less more recently. It always works. There was a problem a year or so ago with the flexi or gun but the local welding shop fixed it while I waited FOC rather than sell me a new one!
Being sceptical, I doubt a new economy unit like this would last anything like as long.

I use Hobbyweld for the gas - carbon/argon mix. They were a hell of a lot cheaper than BOC or whoever else i used to use.

Paractice makes perfect. I rarely use it now so have to practice on scrap before doing the job in hand or have to put up with ugly welding.

Just did a little job joining plated mild steel to high grade stainless. to my surprise it worked a treat.
Clive Berry

As others have said, mig-welding.co.uk is an invaluable resource. Like Guy, I have a cheaper auto-darkening helmet which works well enough. I also agree about using a bright light to illuminate the work.

I think MIG welding is 90% preparation. Too many times I've rushed without shining up the metal properly resulting in a messy, spattered weld. Particularly important with rusted/ dull metal on classic cars. Also, you have to be patient and take your time or you end up with too much heat distortion.
Bill Bretherton

Regarding heat distortion you can do long welds with minimal distortion if you're brave or competent, no disrespect meant to anyone. The longest I've done is a single run butt joint from the rear of the gearbox cross member back to the rear inner bulkhead. It means running hot and fast to prevent burning through with a higher than normal current to insure fusion at the increased travel speed, the idea being to get the whole weld down quickly so the start doesn't have much time to cool before the end is reached so minimising distortion. The edges need to be butted tightly which can be achieved by cutting against a guide and a guide to run the torch along helps also so you stay aligned to the butt. I let repair sections into my Austin A40 Farina like this about 10" welds and virtually no distortion, just needed to clean the weld bead back and paint. If worried a backing bar could be put behind the weld to help prevent any burn through.
David Billington

All good stuff - thanks very much chaps...thinking of fabbing up a frame for a long range DIY electric bike....oh and for spridgety use of course....
Oggers

Regarding the electric bike, MIG isn't good for precision stuff on thin walled bike tubing (i.e. near impossible), TIG is the way to go for that unless you're using way over the top materials. TIG is a bit of a luxury and not that useful for most Spridget work though.
As for MIG gas, in the UK quite a few places do deposit only bottles now. These work out a lot cheaper than BOC rental unless you are welding a lot.
Paul MkIMkIV

If you buy a Mig machine, can you use it to weld the car and Mig braze the bike frame?
Jonathan Severn

I'm not aware that you can MIG braze,. You can TIG braze with silicon bronze but I doubt that it would be possible to have the control to join bike tubing, which is typically 0.9mm thick or thereabouts. No one uses silicon bronze to build bikes, I think it's a bit more prone to crack than the brass or high silver content fillers.
Paul MkIMkIV

Paul,

MIG brazing is the standard process used these days for the repair of HSLA steels used in modern cars. Various alloys can be used such as silicon bronze like TIG and also tin bronze. IIRC DCEP like solid wire MIG, argon gas, and soft wire liner recommended but not necessarily essential. A couple of wire suppliers here https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding-equipment/mig-welding-consumables/mig-wire/mig-brazing-wire/ and a number of options on this page https://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/brands/weldability.html
David Billington

Sounds interesting, although I'm not sure what I'd use it for, I'll take a look at those links, thanks.
Just off to the workshop to repair a bike frame, but I'll be using old fashioned oxyacetylene for this one.
Paul MkIMkIV

This thread was discussed between 18/12/2018 and 23/12/2018

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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