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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - What happened here?

No wonder it was running a bit on the hot side!!!

When I took it off the road five years ago it had a coolant leak. The cooling system had been filled with 4-life radiator fluid but because of the coolant loss and the fact that I was laying-up the car, I topped the system up with water.

Taking it apart for the first time today, this is what I found.

Dave


D MATTHEWS

And another,

Dave


D MATTHEWS

Not sure Dave but I am just taking an MGB apart that has been "resting for 20 years and it is exactly the same. Water pump and housing are trash.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Now thats what id call automotive colestrial.

can you high pressure hose it out, or is it a complete engine tear down and boil out?

Prop
Prop

To further Prop's comment, it seems likely the entire block is perhaps "artereally challenged" as well.

Do you have exceptionally hard water that mighty account for what appears to be a severe mineral salt buildup ?

Or perhaps the resting 5 years (or 20 as per Bob's post) may account for the "mineral conversion" of the fluids within? The red color seems to indicate that some of the "4 life" coolant was still in the system when this freakout of crystallization occurred.

Too bad you didn't open it up 5 years ago to see what lied within. Has anyone ever seen this type of buildup in a currently running car? If not, than a "hardening of the arteries due to sedentary status" explanation might be appropriate?

I would take the hoses to the household sink and see if hot water will dissolve what lies within. Might tell you a lot about what you may or may not need to do to the block.
Richard Reeves

I often wonder what Barsleaks and Radweld do to the rest of the system... this might be a clue!

Another solution would be to bypass the thermostat and find another way into the head, in a similar manner to the surgical operation; or these days you might do keyhole surgery from a heater hose and fit a stent.

It's not brain-surgery, after all. (Cue the Mitchell and Webb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I)

A
Anthony Cutler

Dave putting tap water in was probably not a good idea with or without 4-LIFE

I know zero about chemistry but can see the after effects of tap water everyday, at least where I live, and would never want to put it into a car

4-LIFE is not to be diluted, whether adding water would cause problems I don't know but you could ring 01954 231668 to find out (I've bought 4-LIFE so often for different cars that the last two times I've been given small rolls of labels)

You probably got to do a full system clean out, rad, engine, matrix, heater tap and at least look at the inside of the water pump if not replace it (my water pump was £17 and seems well made)

A lot forget or don't bother with removing the engine block plug which probably means the block isn't getting fully flushed out

Also a chance to change to silicone hoses and get new and/or rolled edged jubilee clips - helped a mate take out a large and awkward rad and hardest thing was undoing a jubilee clip, of course it was also in the most awkward location

I always flush, shake, back flush, skake, run cleaner, flush, skake, back flush and finally flush and repeat as required

If you ring about 4-LIFE details you can ask them to post labels to remind you and others to use only 4-LIFE or let me know I can spare a few labels

If you decide not to use 4-LIFE (but I'd stick with it) then I'd suggest you use either prediluted coolant or coolant and distilled water


Nigel Atkins

Id wager a dead chicken that 4-life company has a special cleaner just for this or knows of a cleaner...im sure this isnt the 1st time for this to occour. Certianly worth dropping a dime to make a phone call to them

Btw...thanks for the photo....now i know what it looks like when you add reg glyco anti to these new anti formulations...insane for sure

1 Paper

Wow, didnt know a midget also can suffer from haemrrhoids, lets see what Haynes says about that. ;)


Arie de Best

Gentlemen. I have seen this same corrosion develop when the older style of anti-freeze products were commonly used. When the parts were cleaned and bead blasted, it was obvious that the aluminum parts had corroded. One water elbow (thermostat housing) had a quarter inch hole in the tube section where it had corroded through. One of the reasons that the various makers of anti-freeze used to recommend that the old fluid be drained and the system flushed, then refilled with new anti-freeze mixture was the break down of the various anti-corrosion and flow modifying ingredients. I suspect, based on seeing similar corrosion patters, that the engine was left for a long period of time with old anti-freeze in it, allowing the corrosion to develop.

Les
Les Bengtson

I dug out some of the gunge today, basically it's like a lump of gel which dissolved easily in a bowl of clean water, but was full of rust particles and what looked like pieces of lime scale.

I had filled it with 4-life soon after I bought the car. Can't remember whether I flushed the system at the time, probably not. The only time that I introduced some water into it was as an emergency to get me home after it overheated. God knows what was used in the system by the thirteen previous owners, probably plenty of hard tap water.

I don't know what to think about the 4-life fluid, It must be pretty aggressive stuff and probably has a high acid content (similar to other modern long life antifreezes)and I don't think I would use it again in an engine that I didn't know the history of.

One thing that did come out of the system clean bright and shining was the copper temperature sensor for the Kenlowe fan. Perhaps that tells us something too.

Thinking about it, I believe that it was responsible for the overheating in the first place and not something that developed over the five years the car has been standing.

Dave
D MATTHEWS

Dave you're probably wise not to use it for an engine you don't know, I put up a thread here as soon as I learnt that

Slap on wrist for you tho' for not flushing through or cleaning out before renewing any coolant and if you'd done a thorough job of it you would remember as it's at least a 4 mugs of tea job

It certainly looks like time to do the job properly now (as previously described) possibly for the first time in a very long time including removing that engine block plug

For various reasons I've had to do a lot of coolant and components stuff over the last 4 years so I can tell you it's easy as even I can do it just take your time and do a full job

Doing this I count in as part of the full and proper 36,000 mile service to do as soon as you can after getting the car

I don't want to rub it in but if that large pipe >> was full of rust particles and what looked like pieces of lime scale<< then imagine what might be in your engine, rad, heater matrix, heater tap and water pump

At least you (seem) to be keeping your spirits up, good on you

You'll have to look at it the same way I do with my stuff - others can learn from your misfortune
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,

It' my spare car, that's why it's been sat around for the last five years and I had just got to the point where I had to decide whether to sell it "as is" or break it for spares. I only discovered the dire state of the cooling system as I was removing the (nearly new) radiator together with Kenlowe fan to put on my other midget.

But you are absolutely right, I should have flushed the system thoroughly when I first got the car, but you know how it is, you've just aquired a Midget, there's a big rush of blood to the head and the next thing you know, you are driving it whatever condition it's in. :o)

Dave
D MATTHEWS

Dave I make bigger mistakes I buy whole cars on impulse or inpatience!

My mate's Toyota Supra had 4-LIFE in when new I believe that was around 20 years ago (10 year life on 4-LIFE) now he's had the car a few years now and he certainly not replaced the 4-LIFE so it could well be original

Now the Supra don't get used too much as he has two others, a couple of Loti and few other bits of machinery so whilst it not sat round for 5 years it does get spells of inactivity but with no heating problems when it does run

So I suspect it was the tap water more than the 4-LIFE wot done it

your thermostat housing pipe looks better than the one I replaced before using 4-LIFE

And no I'm not on commision but I should have got quanity discount
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 23/01/2011 and 25/01/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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