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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - What Tyres?

My midget is running on tyres that must be 20+ years old!
Time to replace them, I will be in Cambridge next Friday, so am considering a set of refurbished Rostyles to go with them (from the MGOC).
Is it worth going up to 155/80 from the stock 145/80?
Any recommendation on tyre models/brands?
Toyo 350s seem to be quite good value...

Thanks,
-- Josh
J Levine

Josh-
You would gain slightly more than 6% on tread width, providing that the rain grooves remain the same width. In a panic braking situation, every little bit helps.
Stephen Strange

I've been running 165/70's on rosstlyes for at least 30 years. Like you my tyres are old. I have a pair of Pirelli P3's on the front that must be at least 20 years old and are now in need of replacement.

But these days I am told that tyres are MUCH softer and wont last anything like as long.

So I too would like to hear from people about which is the best tyre to use these days.

I'm just a road user, and was always more than happy with the older hard compounds that gave adequate grip but great mileage. Last time I asked a tyre shop that told me you cant get them anymore and all are soft compund.

Note: Changing tyre profile might throw your speedo out.

Lawrence Slater

ps to my last comment.

I have been told a million times by tyre fitters, that 165 is too big for the rosstyle, and that the tyre will come off. Well after 30 years it never has.

I used to have them (165s)on the original steel wheels too, and they are not as wide as the rosstyles if I remember correctly.

I think the Ross's are 4.5J and original steels are 4J.

is that right?
Lawrence Slater

Rostyles are indeed 4.5J. I had 165/70 tyres on mine but felt the tyres flexed too much and gave an uncertain feel when cornering. Things improved dramatically when I fitted 165/70 tyres to 5.5J alloys. This would probably be just as true of 5J wheels.

Incidently, 165/70 gives almost the same circumference as the original tyres so little impact on speedo readings.
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

here is a tire size calculator to confirm the OD difference from stock, for any tire option:

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html


Norm
Norm Kerr

Go for a 155 on a rostyle 165 will fit but give no benifits.

Modern tyres are longlasting enough to make it 5 or 6 years easy.
And that is fine as yoi should not want to use a tyre any longer due to rubber degradation
Onno Könemann

I agree with Onno - if you're sticking to the rostyles go for 155s

I had Michelin energy E3B on mine when I had 155, they were really great but too thin for the K!
Rob Armstrong

Anotehr vote for 155's, work well on the two of our Midgets which have them.
Paul Walbran

I certainly wouldn't worry about trying to find long lasting compounds as tyres for these wheels are cheap (relatively!) and Onno says you'll want to replace them before they're worn out anyway. I wish mine would wear out a bit quicker so I could justify changing them for ones that fit a bit better! (155/70s on 4" wires don't fill the arches very well!)


Matt1275Bucks

Josh, whatever tyres or sizes you put on you're gonna wish you'd done it much, much sooner, just after taking ownership of the car really, if I'm wrong please let me know

I've got 155/70 Yokohama A-drive tyres (on minlite copies) and find them very good - I'd happily have 155/80 (not available in A-drive)

when you put the new tyres on take it fairly easy for the first 50/100 miles and check the wheel nuts torque after 50 miles

N Atkins

Thank you for the excellent advice (as usual).
I will go with 155/80 (the extra grip would be good, and I would rather not lose diameter).
Not sure what model/brand to go for yet, will have a think about it (further recommendations welcome)!

Thanks,
-- Josh
J Levine

I've recently fitted 4 Uniroyal Rain expert 175/70x13 to my 5.1/2 inch wire wheels and they have totally transformed the ride and handling. I love them.

Bernie.
b higginson

Matt

"I wish mine would wear out a bit quicker " - nothing that a few autotests or autosolos wouldn't fix!
Paul Walbran

Norm thanks for posting that really great link to the tyre size selector/calculator. I've been looking for something like that.

Hi Onno,
I understand you are a reacer so of course I bow to your superior view as regards track.

But when I fitted my 165s over 155s,years ago, (same make and model) I noticed an immediate improvement in road holding so there is a benefit I found.

Matt1275Bucks, and Onno.
Also I honestly don't understand your reasoning for replacing tyres before they are worn out.

And it's not the number of years they make, its the number of miles that I'm more interested in.

As for being cheap, even crap budget tyres these days are over 30 quid. Yep you might call that cheap, but depends on how much money you have doesn't it.


Maybe it's me, out of sync with modern life, but there seems to be too much of an air of "health and safety" around these days for my liking. A bit of rubber degradation never did me any harm.(I have never had a blow out in over 40 years of driving). Yes if you drive around a track at a hundred miles an hour all day, or even for an hour you would obviously want new/near perfect tyres, but poodling around within speed limits, and even exceeding them when you can on the road, does not call for new tyres every 5 or six years, In my oppinion of course. No doubt that will get me caned by somebody on here. :)
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence - I don't agree with your comments about tyre prices. If you shop around you can buy quality brand tyres for the Midget for around £30 (if you fit them yourself) upto just over £40 fully fitted (a few months back I paid £58 for two Uniroyals - fitted myself).

I also don't think much has changed over the years regarding the life of tyres. Back in the 60/70s you could buy soft tyres such as Avon that only lasted about 14,000 or others like Michelin that would do 30 odd thousand and they were radials. Crossplies certainly didn't last that long!

Trev
T Mason

No racer i just value my life and others!

Tyres are the only point of contact to the road and as brakes no point to be cheap on.
Midgets are just about the cheapest classics around and sorry to say but if you do not want or can spend the money to drive it safely maybe you should not.
Onno Könemann

The main troubloe with very old tyres is that they get hard and lose a significant amount of their grip. Which can be a problem when some clot pulls out in front of you.

We had an interesting comparison with one of our Midgets. PO had done a bit of track work, and had quite reasonable tyres on it. However, he hadn't used it for 12 years or more, and the tyres felt decidedly dodgy. This was a shame as they still had good tread on them. So we took them off the car and fitted a new set of cheap-ish 155-80's on the second set of rims that came with the car. The increase in grip from old flash tyres to new cheapies was very marked.

And we still have the old hard ones to skid with at autotests! :-)
Paul Walbran

I agree with Lawrence. For "normal" use - whatever that is - I would hope to wear out tyres before they get old. And if they get a bit more skitterish with age, then I hope I do too! Life is more fun that way. But then I remember the days before tyre tread depth laws came in. Driving on "slicks", usually with half the casing cords exposed was good practice for car handling but then there was also far less traffic on the roads then.

There is of course a deal of difference about what one can properly advise others to do, and what one chooses to do oneself.

If you have old tyres that are past their "use by date" then you should change them. And make sure that you drive more on the new set so you don't get the same problem next time around.

And 165s are fine on Rostyle rims.
Guy

the answer is to convert to K series, that wears out the tyres plenty fast enough.

My Avons cost me 55 quid for 2 of em, they're brilliant.

what hasn't been mentioned here is wet weather performance, the harder older rubber really makes a difference in such a light car as the midget. I replace my midget tyres when the tread depth gets below about 2mm, because even tho they're still legal, it starts to get skittery in the wet. They are the only thing between the car and the road so why skimp on them? Especially having been in a accident in a spitfire with too old kumhos on...

I've never had a set of tyres last longer than they're rated for, the Land Rover's ones are getting close however, still have 8-9mm of tread on em and are 100 quid each new, so they might stay on there a while longer.

as far as the midget in concerned - 150quid-ish every 4 years or so isn't going to break the bank IMO.

Rob Armstrong

Lawrence,
More info and an alternative tyre size calculator

http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg4.html

Generally,
I’ve more than once changed a new set of tyres after less than 1,000 miles, many (previous) owners put tyres on that are not the best suited to the car (as did some small specialist manufacturers)

I got very good 4 tyres for my Midget for less than the price of one tyre on previous changes

As already said tyres go hard with lack of use and/or age, they are the car’s only contact with the road and vital safety components on your car, as well as potentially improving the ride and handling, so why would you not change them to improve things let alone make the car safer for yourself and other road users

Many owners spend money on cosmetics whilst driving with old hard tyres (and brake pads) and assume all Spridgets are as poor as their car and tell others that old cars don’t brake or hold the road that well

As I put on another thread the biggest problem with most classic cars is the owners
N Atkins

I'll repeat this just for the benefit of Onno.
"Maybe it's me, out of sync with modern life, but there seems to be too much of an air of "health and safety" around these days for my liking."

Sorry, I thought you were a racer Onno, but as you aren't, then my oppinion, after 40 years of driving and 34 years of continuous ownership and driving of my sprite, is every bit as good as yours. I am still alive and haven't killed anybody.

If you are that worried about safety you should not drive pretty much ANY 60's car, esp a sprite or spitfire.

If you get side impacted in one, esp a sprite or spit, your proably dead. I have posted various annecdotes about my sprite and other cars from the period recently. One I didn't post, was about the guy I knew who was rear ended in his midget, by a 3 wheeler robin reliant doing about 60mph. The floor of the midget dissapeared and he ended up never walking again with a broken back.

Yep, tyres are the only point of contact with the road, but that's a spurious point. The only point of contact you have with your brakes ia a small rubber covered metal pad, if you slip, no brakes. So what? Be mindful.

Spridgets are like go carts, as I have discovered many a time, and you loose them and let go of the wheel and back they come, most of the time. ha ha.

I would not drive around with carbunkles in the side walls, and always changed my tyres before the canvas showed ( yep I remember those days lol). I never needed and still dont, a wear bar indicator to inform me about the depth of the tread. if you can see, its pretty obvious I always thought. "Elf and safty" lol.

My sprite has just passed a NEW MOT with the OLD degraded rubber tyres. It did the same previously, on the same tryes. Either the tester is stupid, incompetant, or blind, or sensible. Take your pick.

I haven't looked closely enough obviously at prices recently. They do sound way cheaper than I thought.

I have never attempted to change my own, I assumed you need a machine, or ten foot long levers, and how do you balance them? I'd have a go if some expalains the technique. But the balancimng on the fronts I have always found is pretty much needed if you hate steering wheel shake and rattle.

Sounds like a winner if you can get a pair of Avons for 55 quid. I'm in kent, who's the cheapest supplier near T wells?

Anyway, probably I will be/am considered careless of others and my own safety on the road, and condemed as a hazard by some on here, esp as I am apparantly too cheap, and shouldn't be driving a Classic. he he he.

I can't print my answer to that, it would be VERY offensive.
Lawrence Slater

PS.

I'm off to hastings now with a car load of my tools for a bit of work on a house.

If you see me and my dodgy tyres, better move over, I'm looking to generate a bit of road kill. Gotta keep the population down somehow. lol.
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence

I do not care for the safety of the driver.
It is our choise to drive these indeed "unsafe" cars.
I am only concernd for the safety of others.
That is why I think you should make your car as safe as (with in reason) possible.
Fitting new tyre's will drasticly reduce your braking distance and the little girl that has run on the road to get her ball might just live instead of being a splater on your grill.

As for the mot tester he is not stupid or incompetant but just following the rules!
And the rules do not make sense
Onno Könemann

Having been driving a car for a few weeks now that was passed by an MOT tester in Kent, then, I'm not too surprised - not only did it have rubbish tyres - but the kingpin moves and the front suspension is horrendous.

AS someone who autotests - and also listens to alot of other people who have raced/autotested/sprinted/hill-climbed/rallied for many years - then I'm a tad surprised at your attitude Lawrence. Yes, there's alot of health and safety nowadays, and much of it is a load of codswallop - BUT - as was stated above by Rob (I think!), tyres are the only thing between you and the road - so, it's important to have the best possible ones that you can get - properly set up.

Josh - you've not been back, so I'm presuming that you've long since lost interest in this thread!!!! I hope that you made it to the MGOCs safely and they sorted you out with tyres - although I wonder that you could certainly have got them cheaper elsewhere ;)!

There are plenty of suppliers on the internet, and, most tyre shops will do the change for you for a few quid for a beer!

All I can say is that, on both the midgets normally on my drive - I have Goodrich directional on fronts and toyos behind - they give me a good ride on the road, and fantastic grip autotesting - no matter what the weather (even when the standing water is halfway up the wheel!), however, Avons are also very good - and I have the beloved Yokohamas on my BGT, and have driven a midget with them all around, and they are fantastic - especially on wet roads.

Hope that's of help :)
rachmacb

I love my surprising attitude. :) I have no idea about the general standard of MOT testing in Kent or anywhere else, but if you would like to see modern tests and standards applied to 60's cars then there wont be many of them around for much longer unless they are all either rebuilt every year, not driven, or have large amounts of dosh spent on them to convert them to modern suspension, steering, and with side impact and crush zones fitted.

King pin and wishbone pin wear, are just characterstic of the age that these cars were designed and built, and the price they were designed and built to as well. I grew and matured with that, and it doesn't bother me in the least that my pins rattle. (And the sprites).LOL

How very saintly of you Onno. Sanctimonious almost. And give me a break Onno, "It is our choise to drive these indeed "unsafe" cars." You really think they are unsafe? I was taking the ##$#$iss and making a point. Life is unsafe, that's part of the fun and adventure.

Back in 1976, I spent 6 months in Holland, in a town called OSS. Whilst there I met a bloke who sold me a Mini cooper for about 60 quid. (4 guilders to the pound at the time.)

The reason it was so cheap I was told, was that it had it's "papers" withdrawn due to an accident. It was explained to me,(i have no idea what it is like now in Holland), that at the time, there was no MOT as such, and that a new car had a set of papers issued, and they were withdrawn when the car had some serious accident (what was considered to be serious anyway). Hence you could go to what were effectively breakers yards, and pick up amazing bargains, because cars older than 5 years or so that had papers withdrwan were deemed uneconomical repairs, due to the very rigid standards imposed to re-issue it's papers. Full engineers report or something, not just some rubbish MOT like test.

Anyway, I have no idea if all this is true, but it is what I was told, -- (and have no reson to disbelieve it subject to new information), -- and because of how cautious everybody seemed to be over there (holland) at the time, and how law abiding when compared to us in the UK as regards motoring matters they were, and in general rule following, ( I wasn't even permitted to camp in my tent in my friends back garden), and the subsequent fact that all our excessive safety legisltation has indeed come from the EU. (This is not a dig at the dutch btw, best gf I ever had was from a small town just outside OSS, (Veghel) and I had a great time over there).

To continue.

This mini which was about 5 years old I think, had a smashed wing and bent suspension. I drove it round the yard, and it went well enough so I bought it. I ignored the papers issue, which I got away with because I was a foreigner, and took the car to the UK,(cost me 20 quid import fee), where I fixed it for about another 50 quid, and sold it to a mate who converted it to RHD, and sold it for 400 quid.

Moral? Over safety consciousness makes no sense to me at all, costs money, but can also lead to great profit, so I ignore it, or abuse it as suits. I don't race, rally, hillclimb, or otherwise stress my sprite to the limit, so see no need to impose track standards whilst driving on the road.

Legislation may well eventually defeat me. Hopefully I will be too old to care by then, and anyway the roads will be so full of cars that we will all be driving around at 20MPH (by then we will be forced to adopt kph),so brakes and tyres won't be that critical at all.

Thankfully at the moment the rules still allow mot testers some discretion, probably not much longer though if some have their way no doubt.

As regards that small girl running out in front of me, I blame her mother or father, for not teaching her the green cross code, and will charge her mother a fortune for a new grill, because new original ones are very hard to get.:P On the other hand its like a notch carved on a gun handle of howe many youj have killed. wear it with pride.:P:P:P
Lawrence Slater

Meh - there's wear and there's wear - and none of this is answering the original question :)!

However, just to clarify - wear is where they are there and only move slightly - failure is where you can move the entire wheel because of their lack of anything left - and it was in the latter, not the former - I too have many years of experience of these cars - although, I do have to admit - I wasn't alive when the first Midgets were out (my parents were happy!) and Onno was barely alive when the last ones came off the production line - however, I don't think that age is the only pre-requisite to driving them - or they would all die out too in time!!!!!!!!
rachmacb

I am still here!

Interesting points everyone, I am happy to replace these, they are old, and need to come off to do something about the ugly condition of the rims.

Looks like I am going to hold off doing it for a few days, new hood isn't attached enough for a 50 mile drive in the rain.

I plan on ordering the tyres online and just getting them fitted by the OC (perhaps not their refurbished rostyles). Fitting was quoted at £8 which isn't too bad, and presumably they know how to balance the Rostyles.

Rach, do you know what model Toyo you are running?

Thanks,
-- Josh
J Levine

Sorry Josh - haven't got them here at the moment (long story :( - they are fitted on Primerose, and, well ...!) but they are 165/70/13s. I know they are T-rated for speed.

If you are up this way, then I do have a nice almost new (500 miles and one year old) set of 165/80/13 Firestone fuel saver tyres I bought from Den Wharf just before going to Holland, but, they didn't fit my car, and as I was leaving the next day ...!!!! If you want them, so long as you covered what I paid, you'd be more than welcome - but, not really for a square-arched car!

Rostyles aren't rocket science to track and balance! Chances are, there will be someone at your local tyre centre who's played around with older cars - my local one is great - up until recently, I've been able to use their ramp to check everything over as well - so long as I do a bit of tyre moving in return!!!!!
rachmacb

Lawrence,
forget health & safety your car will go better with new tyres

MOT is to meet a minimum standard and is one person's opinion at one point of time

to get the most fun out of these cars and that's what they're about you want the car as near to it's best possible condition as can be

I've more than once changed a new set of tyres with less than a 1,000 miles on not because they were unsafe but because they were unsuitable for the car or restricting the fun potential of the car (I like grippy tyres in the wet and less so in the dry)

Josh,
please report back the difference the new tyres make

take it easy with them for the first 50-100 miles and after 50 miles recheck the torque on all your wheel nuts (don't over tighten or you could loose a wheel stud)

set your new tyres to about 2 psi above recommend for original tyres

wheel nut torque and tyre pressure info in owners Handbook of course
N Atkins

Just needed to say
Lawrence you are an ass and I am happy with the piece of water in between us
I always thought with age came wisdom and comonsense but you clearly try you best to be as adolecent as possible.

Just to be clear I do think most Health and Safety rules are BS.
Incedently this tyre "rule" is not a H&S rule just comonsense.
Onno Könemann

I'm of the firm view that the spitfire I was the 'crash passenger' in wouldn't have crashed had the tyres not all been over 8 years old. Plenty of tread on em still, but hard rubber is no use in the wet. We hit a pregnant lady, who was fine, but only 4 weeks off.

I'll admit it may still have crashed had the tyres been new, but makes you think....

He's got new ones on his new spit now. And so's his dad, after one blew out on him on the motorway, after 6 years of use on the back of a discovery.

Lawrence you're right, some aspects of 'over safety conciousness' makes no sense, but there needs to be a healthy dose of common sense in there too. Would you keep a tyre on a car with a nail in it? Just 'cos you can see it doesn't make it worse than an old one...

I'm a student, and have not a lot of money for things, but tyres are one of the things that will be bought properly, even if it means no pub for a couple of weeks.

just my opinion :)
Rob Armstrong

My dear Onno, I hope your need was satisfied. Now for my part I have no need at all to insult you, but thank you for the invite. You are a pratt, and I rather think it's a shame that there’s water between us, we could be such good friends-- if you get my drift.

You said "I always thought with age came wisdom and comonsense but you clearly try you best to be as adolecent as possible." Ah, if only eh? LOL. Your damn right Sonny Jim, -- I'm still a 16 year old, and you Yoko, sound like an old woman already.

Really what’s age got to do with getting a laugh driving a Spridget.? -- Apart from the pre-requisite to contort ones back getting in and out, when it no longer wishes to be contorted. J. No, I don’t think age is ANY pre-requisite at all to drive a spridget, -- unless of course it’s so advanced that you can’t get out of the wheel chair anymore, in which case, a not too advanced age might be. We’ll all be there one day. LOL.

Rob,
I've driven many a mile with a nail in a tyre on many occasions, because pulling it out would cause it to go flat and my spare was already flat. You too if you haven’t already, will drive a tyre with a nail in it, and you wont necessarily know until you see it, if it doesn’t go flat, which they very often don’t. A nail doesn’t render them that unstable and unsafe, if it did, then all tyres would be legislated to be completely nail proof. Sorry to hear about your accident, no doubt shook you up. But that’s life. I’ve seen plenty of it and been in plenty, and that’s life too. Spilt milk and all that jazz.

Yep different tyres feel different. I’ve had some real crap ones, and the ones I have now, which in my opinion (that’s the one that counts to me) need changing. That’s why I chimed in and also asked which were the best tyres these days. I too love the feel of new tyres and always enjoy the extra grip they give – esp’ in the wet. Mind you its very easy to lose a sprite in the wet new tyres or not (the back goes out more often than my cat, and he’s always out). I adjust my driving style as the tyres age, and dependant on the wetness. Don’t we all. I suppose if I was sufficiently minted I might have my tyres changed every 6 months; but then again? --- Probably not.

It seems people think me some kind of lunatic because I don’t go around being cognisant of safety all the time. Well allow me to assure, I have an extremely well developed sense of self-preservation.

Yup, I thought when I first heard that you could buy this thing called an MOT in a pub, and then when I saw one in action, that there is no way I would ever rely on somebody else to pronounce my car fit or otherwise to belt down a Motorway at any speed. Mot’s are to me, a legally necessary joke, which unfortunately I have to buy each and every year. They mean didly squat to me as I know each time I take my car it will pass, because I have already checked the items that get tested and more importantly the items that matter. As you said its only an opinion of one person at 1 hour of the day, once a year. Completely useless. I don’t and never have, relied on it. As for everything else, I check that too, including making sure I have tight nuts :P I don’t have a rolling road to test the brakes of course, but there is plenty of the public stuff to do that on. It doesn’t take much of a look at drums shoes pads and discs to see if they will past muster. As for the date stamp on tyres, I have no doubt that tyre makers would dearly love that to be part of the MOT too, so they can force everybody to buy new rubber every 4 or 5 years, even if it has never been used, and even less doubt that it will be included in the MOT one day. I would like to know the facts and figures for precisely how many accidents can be conclusively put down to tyres being being older than 6 years or so. Hostage to fortune there of course, since there is bound to be some actuarial type with just that info’ to hand, and stat’s can prove anything you want them to prove.

Sorry J Levine, didn’t intend to clutter your thread with ballcocks. “they are old, and need to come off to do something about the ugly condition of the rims” ha ha, sounds like about the right priority to me, but be careful you don’t say that, someone might say you should care more about the condition of the 20 year olds, than the look of the rims.

Hope you get a good set, from what I’ve read and learned here they are cheap enough surprisingly too me, to get a pucker set for less than 120, which is a surprise, since I found an ooooooold receipt for a single GoodYear GT something or other (faded receipt), that cost me 50 quid a number of years ago. Rubber seems to have come down in price, no doubt due to all the cheap imports these happy days.

To everyones relief no doubt, I'll shut up now, and you can have the last word Onno. :)
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence, right, that's it, what do you mean your spare tyre was flat !





what use is that





why carry it in the boot


ohhh, no, no
N Atkins

OK, one liner reply (almost anyway). See I am not a man of my word (even my last word ho ho).

My defence (if you can call it that, I do ), is that I didn't know my spare was flat, until I looked, and don't check everytime I go out.

Frankly I can't be bothered even though it's easy. And after that many years of driving, it is no longer any surprise to me at all, just how many times I have had nails in my tyres, gone to change the spare, and found a nail in that too from the last time I used it. I seem to attract nails in my tyres, more than a bitch on heat attracts dogs. Now I really must keep quite before I get kicked off the BB altogether.
Lawrence Slater

At the risk of hijacking this otherwise occupied thread, I'm in the market for new tyres :)

Basically around here in 165/70 13 I can get either :

a) Yoko A-drive
b) Dunlop SP Street response
c) Bargain basement no-name tyres.

Any opinions on the Yokos vs. Dunlops. The marketing men certainly make the Street Response sound attractive, but are they?
OrangeSpyderMan

LOL marketing men can make anything look attractive - even snow!

However, I do believe that some of the mail order folks can also deliver to France, so, that might open up your choices a little bit - should you wish to have it opened up - but, I'm beginning to think that too much choice is worse than too little ......
rachmacb

Lawrence,
it was a joke - I would expect your spare to be in the boot flat with next to no thread and at 20 years old :)

Orange,
sorry no idea of comparision but I've got A-drive and am very pleased with them

don't forget test comparions are only a guide unless tested on a vehicle exactly the same as yours
N Atkins

Yeah - I'm wary of comparisons when they're fitted to a 3 month old Opel Corsa cos I'm not sure what that'll actually tell me :)

OK - one in favour of the A-drive on a Midget, then the A-drive it is unless a stream of people suddenly now tell me the Dunlop is the best damn tyre anyone ever made for the Midget. TBH - I was probably going to go for the Yoko's anyway.

thanks :)
OrangeSpyderMan

I have happily been using 165/70 13 Toyo 330s. After the third set for some reason I went and bought a pair of Avons. I think they were being recommended here on the BBS. Although nominally the same size, the Avons have more bulgy side walls which rubbed when fitted at the rear of my square arch car, so were moved to the front. When they wear out it will be back to the Toyos for me!

Just bought some Falkens for the other car which were very sensibly priced and seem very good. Don't know if they do them in 13" though. I generally buy from Black Circles rather than go to the main street rip-off merchants.
Guy

or got to an independant tyre specialist see if they can match the price

remember to allow for valves, balance, disposal of old tyres and VAT

I've seen a few recommendations for A-drive on PH but of course that could just mean they are popular
N Atkins

I noticed Rob Griffiths using Falken 912,s on one of his customers cars at Silverstone, he seemed to think they where pretty good and usually a good price. I'm also not sure where your insurance company would stand if you had an accident with 20 year old tyres! any excuse not to pay out I find!!
Carl
C Bintcliffe

Well as far as the 3rd party claim is concerned, they would pay.

Also it depends on who caused the accident, and what.

There is no law to say you must change your tyres because they are old as far as I know, and it does not form part of the MOT. As long as there is the min amount of legal tread over the required amount of surface (and there is), they'd have to cough up.

Claims under a few grand never get examined anyway, and my sprites not worth more than that I suspect. Indeed IF THAT!

As far as comprehensive claiming. I wouldn't anyway. Not worth the excess. I'd just fix it myself.

If someone else caused the accident, then by definition if they have ins, then I claim from them, and if fault is accepetd, my car is only relevant if its a write off, for valuation purposes.

If they refused to pay, the good old legal expenses ins kicks in, and the case gets dragged into court eventually, where my defense will say the car was passed, including tyres, as fit to drive on public roads when the tyres were already 20 year old.

Why is everybody fixated on my 20 year old tyres?
I'm about to change them coz there getting a bit thin, so its a moot point anyway.:)
Lawrence Slater

now, now, Lawrence as you posted a link to MOT you'll know there's a bit more to it than just tyre depth

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/tyres.html

IF a vechilcle was checked by an insurance assessor the condition of the tyres would be noted this info may or may not be noticed or used

IF there was a claim for personal injury other than of a minor nature this information grows in value
N Atkins

Spliting hairs here Nigel :), and yes of course there is more to a tyre than tread depth. I haven't said otherwise.

I've also previously said I don't drive tres with carbunckles etc. Do you take me for a risk taker? lol

Here's a line or two from the link you posted.

"Spare tyre
There is no legal obligation to carry a spare tyre and it does not have to comply with the legal requirements while it is stowed away. However, when fitted to the vehicle (for example, following a puncture) it must then comply with the law. A spare tyre is not a testable item in the MOT test, though the examiner may draw your attention to an unserviceable item as a matter of courtesy."

Key point is that it only has to comply, when in use, not when it is stowed. Nonsense you might think that to be, but that's how it is.


As regards insurance claims and mots and old tyres....

In May 1987, I was on the wrong end of a 70mph prang that put me in hospital for several weeks, and off work double that in months.

My bike wasn't MOT'd at the time, I had simply forgotten to get it done, (one week expired). I claimed for my bike, and my injuries against the other party whose fault it was, and won (significantly as it happens).

The fact that my bike was not mot'd was in the police report, and the others insurers naturally tried to use this as a reason to cop out, and shift blame.

They failed because my bike on examination, was, apart from the accident damage, deemed to be in exceptional roadworthy condition, by not only the police who would have otherwise pressed charges, and didn't, but by a professional engineer hired for the purpose by my brief, at the instruction of my own insurers, who naturally didn't want to get lumbered with the cost of the 3rd parties claim against me.

MOT or not, the others insurers had to pay, and settled out of court, rather than lose in court a possibly bigger sum than they eventually did lose :)

A bike of course doesn't usually carry a spare, and mine didn't, so of course my tyres were good as regards tread depth.

The age though, was not within the 6 years.

They were Avon roadrunners fitted by the PO. Great tyres, --- you could lean the bike almost horizontal it seemed, :) so I didn't change them.

I bought the bike in '83/4, it was a '79 bonny, and the tyres were as old as the bike according to the guy I bought it from and judging by the obviously low mileage the bike had done, I believe it.

So the tyres were at least 7 or 8 years old, and were never mentioned in any of the paperwork.

I notice that the AA dont mention tyre age on the page you linked, unless its in the fine print that my failing eyes cant read lol.
Lawrence Slater

Another vote for A Drives
I have 165/70/13 on my Elan and they're great
Elan's are fairly touchy on tyre choice for handling/comfort but these are good
The thing that interested me was when we were balancing them they all spun up dead true, hardly a wriggle at all in the treads or walls and very few balance weights were needed. Quite happy with them
Willy
William Revit

Lawrence, I'm not in for an arguement (well not about this or at this time, glad to some other times tho')

so facts only, 1987 was 24 years ago things change, I don't see the point of carrying a spare tyre in good condition let alone one that is not, I do rotate tyres (a bit) and did rotate with spare when I used to have them - I don't see the point of having a perfect tyre in the boot then buying a new to replace a worn one on the car

:)

so what did Josh get ?

N Atkins

Things often change slowly, but the law changes even more slowly :). I would get the same result today, not that I would want to, coz it hurt lol.

Yes please tell, what did you get?

Lawrence Slater

I've just fitted 155/70/13 Yoko A Drives to my wire wheels and taking it out in the wet tonight, so we'll see how good they are.

I managed to loose about 8ozs of balancing weights as well.

Ian
I Ball

interesting point about balance weights refelecting on manufature quality of tyre, nice to know when you own a set
N Atkins

Found this review @ http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Yokohama/A-Drive.htm

Yokohama A Drive Reviews
Given 44% (breakdown) while driving a Toyota Corolla (175-65-14-)
Driving on a combination of roads for 20,000 average miles

Good DRY tires for the money. Absolutely horrific the the wet, would not recommend them to anyone. Once at their limit in wet conditions, the is a very fine line between grip and zero-control. Nothing is going to stop them from slipping uncontrolably. I'm an experienced driver (50.000 mile/year ourier). Have driven and owned classis and new cars with front and rear wheel drive; anything between the lastest BMW 7 series to 70's detroit steel. I use my 97 corolla as a daily driver.

Why i don't recommend these tires: I just merged onto the highway with 50mph (80km/hr), front lost some grip, I let go of the gas, car still refused to grip and went sideways. As I kept steering into the turn with no gas and a little braking to stabilize, I tried straightening the steering wheel to let the front tires grip, the car's weight shifted from left to right in a split second. Back wheels lost grip the same second, now at 40mph (64km/hr), the car started spinning. As we slid onto the highway, we were now facing backwards, I applied full brake to avoid hitting the divider. Wheels locked up, and the right side got onto the dirt in the center of the road, zero grip on the right side going offroad... The center dicider proved more effective at stopping ht car than these yokohama a-drive.... What's in a name....

Now, I'm not a race driver. So it's up to you to decide whether this is human fault or just plain bad tires. You decide.

I only know one set of tires that I would rate worse: the General XP2000 tires (now discontinued, thank G*d).

Also, only 1 set of tires I would rate stellar in any and all conditions except for snow: Goodyear Eagle F1's, they do come at a slightly higher price though. But well worth it. Those things only loose grip after your face is torn of by excessive g-forces.

My recommendation for the Yokohama a-drive: Buy only if you feel suicidal.
Lawrence Slater

Agree with balance weights, the Landy tyres have loads on em...

That's a comic review: either that happened to him/her then he/she cheerfully drove a further 20K on them, or that happened after 20k of use in which case they may well be worn out....

Dad has Yokohamas on his mini and they're unstickable, and not too bad in the wet.

with new tyres I was advised to go steady on them for a bit as they're shipped with a coating that's a bit slippy until it wears off...

The Avons I have have got less balance on them then the Contis.
Rob Armstrong

LMAO - coming from someone who has been driving on ancient tyres in goodness knows WHAT condition .....

This is just one person with one opinion on - my goodness - the internet, and we all know how many internet so-called "experts" there are!

I know there's been some thread hi-jacks in the past, but this one has got to have been the most bizarre - and yes, that probably includes lobsters ;)

Here ya go - here's a Midget in the VERY wet - on Yokohamas - and, guess what, it got the fastest time of the day - and it never slipped or skidded all day - and still drove home at night (and actually still has the tyres on as they are more than legal, and has done alot of autotests since ...!) Other Midgets on the day were using Toyos and Goodrich front/Toyo rear combos. Pictures say 1000 words as they say :)

Also goes to show that Midget50 wasn't the only wet day in Lincolnshire!!!!!!!!


rachmacb

The only words I wrote in my last post were:--------
-------- "Found this review @"

The remainder I cut and pasted for comment. Is that so objectionable?

What's LMAO?

As for hijacking the thread, I joined it asking --- "So I too would like to hear from people about which is the best tyre to use these days".

"my goodness - the internet, and we all know how many internet so-called "experts" there are!"

Yes indeed. In case you haven't noticed this forum is part of the "internet".

Goodness only knows how many "experts" there are on here!!!!



Lawrence Slater

I've a friend that works as and with courier drivers from what he tells me you couldn't trust some of them to walk across the road without damaging something and someone and the condition of some of the vehicles they use is distubing - unfortunately they do fit the stereotype of white van man and appear to be a breed of knuckle-draggers
N Atkins

And your point Nigel is?
Lawrence Slater

he was either unlucky, the tires were worn, faulty, defective, he was hoping the insurance, wife, boss would read it

not all couriers, like other people, are good drivers and/or honest despite or because of their higher mileage

just so their is absolutely no misunderstanding I am a self proclaimed Guru

owners Handbook (red cover Midget only) Guru (mainly by the fact I'm one of the very few that spent £8 to get one)

we all throw in advice, we all occasionly make mistakes (apart from me as with me it's often but I do apologise and admit my mistakes - so you'll often see sorry with me)

unlike most, when in the mood, I will argue to the nth degree and be a pedent

a boss once told me I could start an arguement in an empty house, I laughed at that later as I'd never heard it before but at the time I told him that was incorrect and he was just trying to belittle me rather than deal with the issue

Lawrence put up a thread asking what ever you need and if there's anything I disaagree with I'll let whoever know

As my mates says "everyone is entitled to Nigel's opinion"
N Atkins

From an other review site

My favorite:
http://www.tyretest.com/summercar_tyres/vredestein/t_trac/index.html

Toyo 330:
http://www.tyretest.com/summercar_tyres/toyo/330/index.html

A-drives
http://www.tyretest.com/summercar_tyres/yokohama/adrive/index.html
Onno Könemann

For what it's worth I've ordered a set of A-Drives in 165/70 13. I'll let you know whether I'm belting around with a smile on my face or skidding sideways on sliproads when I get them on the car :)

OrangeSpyderMan

Lmao stands for laugh my a**e off.

Nigel is more than welcome as life is way too short.
rachmacb

Well after last night's run through Cheshire I can say that the A Drives are stickier than sticky the stick insect having been dipped in a pot of glue, well compared to what I had before anyway.

There's a particularly quiet roundabout where it's been known to get the back end to, how shall we say this, attempt to leave the party. Not last night, my mate following in a B was having much more fun on some decidedly old and dodgy Avons.

Nigel you said that "a boss once told me I could start an argument in an empty house......" I don't think he did!! ;-)

Ian

I Ball

Well I've certainly laughed my ar*e off a few times at some of the crap posted on here too:)

But I've always subscribed to the belief that everybody has a point of view, is entitled to it, and entitled to express it, as long they are at least prepared to explain it.

Thanks nigel, just wondered if you had a particular reason to be down on "white van man" and couriers in general.

Kind of a sweeping statement to say that wmv's are a breed of knuckle draggers. There may well be quite a few that own spridgets/b's/f's and who knows what others that belong to this stable of old cars.

I know a surgeon I wouldn't trust to sew a button on my jacket, but hey, who cares eh?
Lawrence Slater

the polite answer is you have misread what I put

in your bad tyre example was 'I'm an experienced driver (50.000 mile/year ourier).'

so being a courier was given by this person as evidence of driving experience

experiences can be good or bad

a friend of mine that happens to be a courier told me of his workmates and I put of these people >> unfortunately they do fit the stereotype of white van man and appear to be a breed of knuckle-draggers<<

that is of the people my friend had told me about based on what he had told me of them and taking it that he was telling the truth

the reference was to that particular group represnting a stereotype

I also put >>not all couriers, like other people, are good drivers and/or honest despite or because of their higher mileage<<

so rather than singling out I have included them as part of the general population

you really must try harder, you're the one for generalisations rather than detail not I
N Atkins

just to prove I'm a pedent :-

>>>> unfortunately they do fit the stereotype of white van man and appear to be a breed of knuckle-draggers<<

the >>and appear to be a breed of knuckle-draggers<< refers to the group my friend was telling me about rather than the stereotype otherwise the 'and' would have been 'that'

unless of course I mistyped the 'and' for 'that' but I didn't

was that didn't or didn't mean to?

how far do you want this to go, others must be totally bored with it ages ago so as I put earlier if you want to put up an arguement thread on any subject I'm sure I'll be able to contribute but let's drop from here for the sake of others
N Atkins

LOL.

Or I could say, LMAO, as this seems to be the common currency around here.

Mind you, there's a danger for some of those who laugh their ar*es off. They render themselves speechless.

It didn't take much to reel you in did it Nigel?
HL&S :)

Puleeeeeeese, there really is no need to be polite Nigel.

No, I didn't misread anything you wrote Nigel. However, understanding what you wrote, is shall I say, a challenge?

And if you must keep referring to yourself as a pedAnt, I suggest you learn to spell the word correctly :) To err once is ok, and could have been a typo, however you are repeating the mistake. Unless of course you're going all legal and latin on me, and are thinking of suing me. In which case your looking for Pedente lite. :)

Now where were we? Ah yes.

"unfortunately they do fit the stereotype of white van man and appear to be a breed of knuckle-draggers"

The "they" in the above, clearly refers to the subgroup of couriers (B), who you say, your friend says, fit the "stereotype of white van man"(C). Thus by association, you suggest that both groups, i.e. B and C, can be described as knuckle-draggers (whatever that means. My guess is that you mean Neanderthal, but who knows? Only you). So I think it quite legitimate to say, you made a sweeping statement that is unfair to poor old WVM, who after all, does often get the short end of the stick, when he does so little to deserve it. But if it makes you happy, I'll withdraw the remark :). Remark withdrawn. :):)

Now as regards :---
"--- so as I put earlier if you want to put up an arguement thread on any subject I'm sure I'll be able to contribute ---"

Actually you wrote:---
"Lawrence put up a thread asking what ever you need and if there's anything I disaagree with I'll let whoever know"

The two propositions are quite different.

One appears to be an invitation seek your advice, and you suggest you will give the advice to some unknown person ("whoever"), but only if you disagree with my request.

The other is an invitation to debate a topic of my choosing.

I'm sure you mean what you say, but did you say what you mean?

You really must try harder Nigel.

Do you drink much Nigel? Substance abuse? Hallucenogenic drugs? You should, it might help to clear your jumbled thoughts.:)

Your just miffed, coz your AA link didn’t talk about tyre ages, and shoot me down in flames. Heh heh heh.

Carry on as long as you feel the need nigel, when I get bored I'll stop answering you. Lol.

bong bong, end of round one, back to your corners gents.
Lawrence Slater

back on topic children!
there's a very nice set of 5.5" steel rims gone on ebay tonight - not mine - but you'll have to put your money where your mouth is - the Essex joker wants 500 quid !
maybe that's a new definition of LMAO
David Smith

£500 is too much. But I'll take a look anyway.

The maximum wheel width I have ever had on, is 4.5" rostyles. Assuming I stay with the 165 tyres, in theory there shouldn't be any issue with the tyres or wheel rims rubbing anything if I increase to 5.5" wheels.

Is that right?

My rear is square arches, and they are pretty close to the tyre walls already.

There is another reason I ask.

An additional problem, for me at least, is that at 5.5" they might rub on the inside fronts.

I found when I installed the frontline front shock kit with my rostyle 4.5's, that on full lock (either way), I rubbed the inside rim of the wheel on the relocated brake hoses, and the top of the tyre sidewalls, on the now vertical shocks. My guess is that with the original 3.5's, this wouldn't have happened. So 5.5's might be even worse.

Twisting the brake hose, and removing metal from the brake hose guard bracket, so the hose could be moved away from the wheel rim solved that, but I also had to adjust the kingpin and stubaxle, so reducing lock slightly to prevent rubbing on the shocks. I Never read/saw this on anybody elses spridget, so something odd about mine perhaps. (or me :))

(Actually I suspect the pin kit I put in years ago, as the lock stops looked way too "thin" if that describes it, and I had the turning circle of a triumph herald -- almost-- :)).

Would I be right in assuming though, that this shouldn't happen. Just increasing the width of the steel, shouldn't increase the maximum width of the tyre sidewall, and move it any closer inside or outside, than it already is, on the proviso that I stick with the same tyre size?

Not sure if I have described that very well, so I'll run it up, and see if it gets an intelligent response, or an lmao.
Lawrence Slater

Hi Lawrence,
I use 165/70 R13 on 5.5J rims, square wheel arched car.

On the front the wheels have 6mm spacers. This is because the inside of the wheel barrel was just touching the TRE. So this is not because of tyre contact, but I don't know if there would have been contact if I wasn't using them. It was a practical solution. Someone would no doubt tell me I shouldn't be using spacers as they add to the stresses on the stub axle, but they haven't sheared yet and it was preferable to having scraping TREs!

I fitted the braided front brake hoses to clear as you described, but also run them inside some SS coil spring hose protectors that came off a Pug 205 in the scrapyard. These have shiny patches in places suggesting occasional contact, but again no problems in 65,000miles

On the rear the 165 tyres on 5.5J rims don't contact the wheel arches except very occasionally if I am carrying heavy stuff in the boot and cornering hard. But then only turning one way, I forget which as it happens so infrequently. I have been planning on making a Panhard rod for about 8 years but it hasn't happened yet. But I did use a jack to slightly spread the rear wheel arches.

And as I have mentioned elsewhere, not all 165 section tyres are the same width. My Toyos fit fine. But when I replaced with Avons of the same size and same pressure, the side walls are more bulgy and they rubbed so badly I had to move them to the front.

Guy
Guy

Hi Guy, thanks for that stuff.

Especially interested to hear you spread your rear arches, with a jack. I wondered about that myself, as my nearside is pretty close, (badly fitted half wing in history of car (my history lol)), but wondered if it would work. Now I think I'll give it a go.

6mm spacers? well if you have 65k miles on them and still ok, I guess that's a solution. Must admit I hadn't thought of that Can you still buy them? used to be very cheap, who sells them these days? Suppose I could just make my own.


I've been searching for the 5.5's you mention, but can't find them. do you have a link?

Thanks
Lawrence Slater

OK, found 'em. No need to post the link, I wouldn't want competition.:)
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,

I think the wheel spacers were from Halfords - back in the days when Halfords actually sold useful stuff! But I guess wheel specialists would have them. Or you might try Motorworld.

As I said, the spacers were to get round a TRE problem rather than a tyre contact issue. But I do now recall that I had to reduce the maximum lock by adding a blob of weld to the "ears" at the base of the king pin. Didn't need much.

The jack (with suitable blocks of wood) treatment of the rear wheel arches is a well-known solution. The first contact point is a couple of inches up inside the wheel arch, not at the lip as one might expect. I thought jacking might crack the paint but it didn't. I used a scissor jack as it was easier to manage.
Guy

Ah good old halfords lol. Yeah those days are gone, but you never know I could ask them.

Blob of weld is just how i adjusted mine too, must be common practice then. :)

Right, I keep a scissor jack in the boot, so I'll give it a go when time permits, and thanks for the pointer on where to start jacking.

Bet it will crack my paint though, sods law says it will.:)

Thanks again.
Lawrence Slater

Spacers:

http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?ty=pb&pid=37934&title=

I've had 1/4 inch spacers on the back of mine since I had it, they've been fine so far. Spacers are OK as long as they're not overdone IMO.

If you have a set of dead rear drums they can be butchered to make a set of spacers as well :)

halfords do sell spacers, but they're too wide to fit without changing our wheel studs for longer ones, and if my front end is anything to go by, putting the tyres well outside the arches.
Rob Armstrong

Perfect Rob, thanks for locating those. Surprisingly cheap too (at less than 10 quid inc vat), in todays economy.

I Love the idea of using scrap drums.

I happen to have a set on the back, that I am currently using to slow my car down lol.

I've been meaning to get new ones for some time, as mine are probably the age of the car since I have never replaced them (had car from an 11 year old, its a '66), and using the old ones as spacers, creates a 10 pound plus postage discount. :)

Happy days indeed.

Now all I need are the wheels to put the spacers behind lol.

Lawrence Slater

I got the a-drives and put them on some Revolutions from Magic Midget (who I can't recommend enough - Kim is an honour to the trade..) and they're fantastic. I haven't been able to judge them in the wet yet, but what a difference they've made in the dry.

Only thing was that I had to cut down the thread on the track rod ends because they fouled on the rim. The TREs have been changed, are there several different types of replacement TRE ?
OrangeSpyderMan

Scrapped drum spacers sounds a good idea, but doesn't the inside surface have a circular ridge running around it that locates around the end of the half shaft flange? Maybe I am thinking of on something else. It would stop the spacer from sitting up snug to the drum. 'spose one could grind it flat. Back in carefree days of my youth I used stacks of coach bolt washers as spacers on each stud and didn't give it a second thought! Never did get that Darwin Award though.
Guy

Washers, even simpler. Great for testing too, even if not for permanent.
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 10/07/2011 and 24/07/2011

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